friedclams

I suggest the following reference be read to understand the making of schmura matzoh and its meaning. Schmura Matzoh

Eating strategy for hot or cold items which have reside of some kind (shells, bones, etc) must include taking an extra garbage plate back to the table. I find no reason not to take two plates of cold items back to the table at the proper refilling/fresh moment, eg, freshly shucked oysters I always take 2 plates or as many dozens I can fit on two plates and under each is an extra shell reside/garbage plate. Anyone who enters a buffet immediately taking food without scouting the entire region of gluttony to identify the premium items shall hereby forever be called a buffet-buffoon.

I'm writing this from the internet cafe of the Grand Princess... we left Galveston on April 16th 2005 for a transatlantic voyage ending in Rome on May 2nd... This is my 2nd Princess cruise, and my first cruise of such long duration (16days). We'll be in port in a few hours at the Azores... so I've got a few minutes to talk about the food... In a word I'd classify shipboard food as upscale diner food... remember how you enter a typical Greek diner and see all those desserts and a menu chock full of dishes ranging from breakfast eggs to steak... picture a cruise ship offering the same variety, not all at the same time, usually of better than average quality... all included in the price of the cruise, whether its lobster or aged steak. For example, in the dining room Saturday night they served lobster at dinner. Every night one can have a cooked to order aged NY Steak or Filet Migon. There's always a fish item on the menu. We're on the "anytime dining" schedule allowing us to take meals whenever we want to sit down vs. fixed dining early or late seating. I'm told by cruisees that some prefer the fixed seating on a long voyage like this to make friends with their captain and wait staff so their requirements are known after several days and the waiters know them on sight, eg, one lady I spoke to like her iced tea made from fresh by the waiter vs. taking the pre-made from syrup iced tea onboard. One can chuck eating in the dining room at any time and eat at the buffets which run 24 hours rotating their menus...more on this later. The 2 Princess ships I've been on each have 2 special restaurants which charge a cover per person for their special meals... one is Italian called Sabatini's serving a seven course dinner nightly for $20 cover pp. The other is a steakhouse serving aged beef of larger weights than the dining room for a $15 pp cover. The service and food quality are sightly above the dining room. For the money I'd say they're worth it. Alot of passengers I've spoken to refuse to pay a cover when so much food is available 4free..lol ... Dont expect on shore 5star equivalences here but 4 star service and 3-3.5 star food is usual... for me the cover is worth the extra bit of privacy these special on board resturants offer for special evenings alone with a loved one. Buffet: hold your hat... if you like grazing then cruise ship buffets are for you. Lets start with brekkies... do you want to eat a pound of high quality nova salmon or gravlax but never had the desire to blow the bucks at Zabar's?? this is the place to do it... need to eat a 1/2 pound of prunes to get your system back to normal...this is the place to find them.... at dinner time do you ned 5 or 10 loin lamb chops this is the place to load your plate and no one will look at you funny.... The object is to focus on the items which are of better taste and quality and chow down... wait I'm wrong... foodie or not if you are in the mood to dine in mass quantity the buffet is for you. You sacrifice captain-waiter service for self-service but you get to look and choose whatever suits you at the moment... and go back until you drop.... waistline watchers, cruisin' / grazing the buffets ain't 4 U unless U R willing 2 suffer the consequences of clothing not fitting by the end of the voyage....lol Frankly, I like a mix of the service with food of the dining room and the cafeteria zoo of the buffet... even after finishing a full meal in the dining room one can go to the buffet and graze for more... no one will ever stop you from eating except your own self control. BTW, I'm onboard with some people who took this cruise for Passover. The ship had two Sedars led by a cantor. The food was kosher brought on board frozen and reheated/cooked. Some people were disappointed that the food wasn't kosher for Passover only kosher. Matzoh is available if you want to stay away from bread products during the holiday. If you keep kosher, your dietary requirement will be honored but your food choices will be significantly limited--if you want a kosher cruise go on one where they kosher the kitchen and cook a complete menu from raw food onboard. I'll try to come back to this thread later in the cruise...I've got another week on board if anyone has any specific questions I'll be try to answer them... I'm off to eat (again)....lol Rich PS... I just ran and got today's menus.... today's theme is Italian but here are the entree choices in the dining room (some are repeated on the buffet) Luncheon: - Salad Nicoise - Cuban Sandwich - Ossobuco alla Milanese - Catfish in shredded phyllo - Stuffed peppers - Chicken Teriyaki Dinner: - Pappardelle al Sugo di Lepre (homemade wide egg noodles simmered with tender braised rabbit and roasted red and yellow peppers in a rich demi-glace and sage sauce) - Pesce Spada alla Griglia (Grilled swordfish with herb butter, broccoli and steamed potatos) - Gamberi alla Fra Diavolo (shrimp flambeed in brandy with pearl rice and a fiery tomato sauce) - Costoletta di Vitello Piemontese (veal chop cut from the rack with sauteed mushrooms, served with fenel gratin and creamy homemade taglierini pasta) - Brasato di Manzo al Barolo (beef pot roast braised in red wine with cornmeal cakes and tuscan fresh veges) Just like I said, upscale diner food but very tasty :) :) :)

Although AHR refuses to admit it publicly he and I sat together one night at the original Bookbinder's in Philadelphia (sadly, now gone) and had the cleanest, bestest, gooiest, golf-ball sized belly steamed soft clams ever... wish we could have gotten them fried.... ah I yearn for the good 'ole days

OK...kill me now, kill me later... for Q I would recommend Spring Creek BBQ BUT ONLY the original one in Richardson on 75 freeway if in Plano and want the ambience and cost difference, go to their upscale concept Shady Oak BBQ but expect to pay more than at the cafeteria line in Richardson

BIG bellies......GOOD OYSTERS fried......GOOD Y U M M Y

What kind of "bar" food is on the menu ??? Burgers , nachos, etc ?? This place has been recomended to me several times but I haven't the moxie to mostly drink-drink and eat, vs. eat-eat and drink so I've never gone inside to look at the menu ... call me shy

I hesitate but list these two Chinese buffets... my criteria for buffet "dining deal" is best variety of food value for price where the food has to be edible, ie, of average or better quality for one or more items of which I want to eat mass quantities. For example, a dining deal buffet can have average seafood but because I want to go there to eat mass quantities of 1/2 shell oysters for a very low price it rates. One Plus One Seafood Buffet in Plano http://guidelive.com/profile/156455/ They no longer include all-you-can-eat lobster and prime rib on the buffet but have substituted a mongolian grill and lowered the price for dinner to $10pp weeknights. The better than average seafood and other dishes I chowdown on are salty squid, salmon and eel sushi, 1/2 shell fresh oysters, peel and eat shrimp, eggplant in garlic sauce, bbq ribs and shrimp with walnuts washed down with hot and sour soup. Their desserts are very good and theres lots of variety. Merryland Chinese Buffet in Red Oak, Ft. Worth and Plano http://guidelive.com/profile/102481/ for the Red Oak review which sorta applies to the Plano location http://guidelive.com/profile/106369/ Can't beat the $6.99 all day all you can eat price for the buffet on Sundays (in Plano its $7.99pp dinner weekdays and Saturday) which includes beef ribs (not bbq but real beef ribs) and brisket, several mostly shrimp dishes, some with squid, shrimp with walnuts and the mongolian grill. If you go for lunch the price is $5.50 but doesn't include the dinner selection of seafoods and beef ribs. When I feel partiularly light in my wallet I get seated for "lunch" at 3:45pm and munch slowly until approx 4:15pm when they put out the dinner entrees on the buffet.. all that dinner food for lunch prices...wow These two places ain't for gourmet foodie types ... they just serve honest average food most of which can safely be eaten in mass quantity at low price. I'd love to hear about more of these, 'specially buffet values... Rich

there is a small sign on the front of May Hua that there will be dragon dancers on the 24th for Chinese NY's celebration... in case anyone ain't goin' to the HK Market..lol

In Plano on Coit at Park is the May Hua Korean market... it consists of the market with a fresh produce, fresh meat and fresh-swimming tanked fish areas and packaged asian foods. There is also a large selection of frozen asian foods. I've shopped there and find the produce excellent and prices fair. Sorry I can't speak (yet) for the fresh meat or fish. There is also a gift shop, asian video rental and several restaurants around the perimeter of the market... On weekends the asian crowd makes the parking lot fill ... In case you can't find it, Elliot's Hardware is in the shopping center across Coit and the Plano 10 $1.00 Movie Theatre is in the shopping center across Park.

FG, [1] agreed...Trying to discover the "typical" BK customer? Trying to discover who BK markets to ? lol People buy fast food as a lifestyle choice having nothing to do with economics. That is how fast food is marketed. [2] BTW, you haven't given BK a good idea. BK doesn't want their key US market group to use the restaurant as a substitute living or working area for their primary customers. In fact, some BK restaurants haven't a phone for that reason. Mothers with kids aren't the group that BK markets to or the majority of their prime customer base. Competitors, eg McD may market their food to parents, BK doesn't. In these times Starbucks and other upscale environs have taken over as substitute for living/working spaces. Fast food isn't the munchie of choice for those customers. FC

HB, This would be a logical POS design... but the theory has to be tested by someone (FG?) going back to the same restaurant and ordering standard menu items to see if the ticket hasn't got HIYW on those standard menu items. Order accuracy and speed of service are key drivers to fast food restaurant success. Workers, often speaking limited English are taught to look for word-symbols like HIYW... success is up to the restaurant manager and how well he/she trains the crew to fill the order fast and accurately. At some franchise restaurants there are speed of service timer/clocks which provide emperical measures used to grade the drive-thru crew. HIYW slows speed of service but is considered OK because HIYW is a customer request. Order accuracy is always the restaurant's responsibility. Ultimately, BK order accuracy of whats in the bag is the responsibility of the customer to verify before leaving the counter. FC

Interesting. So much for my corporate philosophy conspiracy theory. But I'm not sure if I follow the logic of the use of HIYW. Are you saying that the HIYW is there because each of those items is "customized?" I don't understand from looking at the ticket what is "customized." HB, Customized in this context relates to how the order or order component differs from the standard menu item. FG example, if I'm interpreting the ticket correctly, shows a Value Meal which usually includes a sandwich, regular size fries and regular size drink. FG's ticket shows a LARGE fries and LARGE drink which is not the standard Value Meal menu item. I'm interpreting the HIYW on those ticket items to indicate to the order assembler to LOOK for and RETRIEVE items he/she normally wouldn't retrieve to fulfill a Value Meal. Ditto for FG's first ticket which shows a customized, ie, non-standard Whopper/CHS sandwich. The HIYW is a quick visual clue for the order retriever to LOOK FOR a customized sandwich NOT a regular Whopper/CHS. This is my interpretation. FC

Jim was a great guy to talk to about the early years. My original point was that BK always used some type of broiler, crap or not... The broiler is of BK proprietary design but built by a public equipment company. FC, The original redesigned broilers were indeed built in-house, at least early-on. In fact, so was much of the stainless equipment in the stores. My point was BK corporate spent large amounts starting-up in-house fabrication operations when the McDonald's method was to let the supplier design and prototype with the carrot dangling of all that future business. BTW, the original McD Fish sandwich was developed by someone working at Gorton's who spent over a year developing it. BTW, I'm really enjoying your posts. PJ PJ, BK indeed held on to many of its home grown component parts until the 90s whilst owned by Grand Metropolitan and run by Barry Gibbons. During strategic business and restaurant of the future exercises it was decided to divest most of the component parts, eg, their wholly owned distribution company was spun off to become a separate company. Outsourcing became the mantra. The food side of the business was leaned down to a core group of food techologists and equipment specialists who developed close ties with external vendors to develop product and restaurant equipment. This leaned down approach was also applied to IT and marketing. I remember the tears when most of the original menu developers/food techies were let go. The separate research and training building on the Miami campus looked like a ghost town. Strategic exercises, customer and product analyses concluded that BK's menu was all over the place (remember BK pizza and mexican food??.... how about HIYW pizza at BK???) and that the customer could accept sandwiches of lower quality. Those were the days when BK was suffering market share to McD and Wendys and lacked a unique identity in the customer's mind (McD's marketing spending was astronomically high compared to BK). From those days forward BK has focused it marketing a simplified core menu of sandwiches to it focused customer group (I'll let eG readers guess who they are... hint, they're NOT eG foodies) with food items whose cost to produce has been reduced through food techology innovation, eg, in the 90s it was nearly impossible to offer a 99cent Whopper or any other burger sandwich without loss, now its a relatively commonplace. The hamburger restaurant business is continues to be difficult to maintain a profit for its owners. BK has been sold off and leaned out by each of its owners since the original company was sold as a way to make up for restaurant profit slack. It took awhile for BK to be sold to its current investor group (there's not much left now other than the corporate restaurant and franchise revenue stream for investors to fall back on if restaurant sales slack off). Who can guess how the new management will change BK. Current market pressures by the food police have shown some flexibility outside the core menu with in-store finished baking (requiring capital investment) and focus on low-er fat chicken sandwiches. BK still wins my taste test for customized off the broiler convenient flame grilled meat sandwiches that I can find worldwide wherever I travel to vs. the competitor flat grilled no-flame burgers. I've forgotten forever the 60s, 70s, 80s BK fresh meat flame broiled USA meat and fresh-tasty condiments of my youth. My reality is that I rarely if ever go into BK anymore. I'm a proud eG foodie now.

FG, In my time at BK, POS was standardized with a full specification and there were multiple approved hardware/software vendors... each vendor's POS implementation was slightly different. The corporate restaurants all used one vendor's POS (IBM at that time) and franchisees tended to choose the approved hardware/software vendor which met their price/performance profile. I can't speak for how their standardization/specs have changed, eg, the POS designs I'm familiar with didn't print HIYW on every item... eG foodies can ask the restaurant manager which vendor provides their POS system...I suspect that all corporate restaurants continue to source their POS from one vendor and franchisees choose their own. Each vendor's POS keyboard/key layout is different and a factor used by some franchisees to choose one vendor over another (for speed of service consideration). I personally think that printing HIYW on evey item is unnecessary clutter and confusing. It doesn't seem to be tied to any current marketing/advertising plan. The first ticket example FG customized the sandwich; FG's second example customized the meal NOT the sandwich. I don't believe this is a philosophical statement but rather a visual aid to the order taker/order assembler so assure the "customized" items are retrieved from each cooking/drink station or chute and given to the customer as a matter of order accuracy

FG, from my past experience, the Whopper bun (and the baguette) is a highly engineered baked product. The objective is aways to lower food cost. During my tenure we proved that taking even one penny's worth of cost out of the bun significantly improved profits. Without getting into the food engineering possibilities, one can imagine how the bun/baguette recipe and baking characteristic mix to form a final product capable of holding up to the patty and condiments and holding time without getting soggy. I suggest that the Whopper bun which isn't finish baked at the restaurant and not delivered fresh baked daily could be outdone slightly in taste by the baguette. For example, there are 6 gms of sugar in the Whopper bun vs. 2grams in the baguette however there are 390gms of salt in the bun vs. 420 gms in the baguette, but the baguette is warmed from an oven perhaps never microvaved. As for fitting the patty, that could be a problem. The sandwich slicing knife could be used to cut the patty in half and layered on the baguette but this isn't a current ops procedure and would have to be coaxed out of the restaurant manager to do. Otherwise take a plastic knife and do it yourself after delivery.... lol

You're very welcome... I'm glad you were able to "have it your way"....

I've done some BK research for the benefit of fellow foodies. This information is current: - "fire grilled" vs. "flame broiled" ... patties continue to be broiled under flames, the broiler has not been modifed or changed. The reference to fire grilled is a marketing statement to make the customer relate the sandwich experience to an outdoor grill having cooked the meat - you may be aware of the new santa fe chicken baguette sandwich. The baguette is baked fresh inside the restaurant and has a hold time of 60 minutes before waste. At the restaurant manager's discretion it is possible too special order the Whopper sandwich ON THE BAGETTE vs. the normal bun (not received daily). A Whopper sandwich assembled with an off the broiler patty on a freshly baked baguette could be a taste experience far superior to the usual Whopper

Jim was a great guy to talk to about the early years. My original point was that BK always used some type of broiler, crap or not... The broiler is of BK proprietary design but built by a public equipment company. We looked at this and determined that there was some merit to keeping the hot components separate from the cold condiments (remember how McD tried that) but speed of service won out. It added too many seconds to prep time to keep the condiments separate. Have you considered that the condiments could be warm because you accepted a prepared uncustomized Whopper from the chute?? If you order off the broiler, there should be no need to microwave the sandwich so I would expect cold lettuce... NOTE: there is no POS key the BK order taker can punch for eliminating the microwave step if you try to have-it-your-way and the patty used for your sandwich has been in a holding tray for several minutes because you didn't order off the broiler...lol Go for it Fat Guy... AND try the A/B off the broiler and off the chute of a standard Whopper Sandwich

If a burger chain or any other restaurant advertises 100% beef then its usually the US govt definition of 100% beef which applies. We all know that phrase 100% beef does not relate to the grade of beef and beef components used. Therefore a Prime 100% beef burger is not the same as Choice, Utility or other grade of beef used. BK doesn't advertise the grade of beef used in the Whopper or any other sandwich. Here is the current composition of the Whopper taken from the BK website: "The Original WHOPPPER® Sandwich has been doing its thing since 1957. It's a fire-grilled classic and everything you would expect from a great-tasting burger – 1/4 pound of beef, red ripe tomatoes, crisp lettuce, creamy mayonnaise, ketchup, crunchy pickles and onions all on a freshly baked bun. Add extra ketchup and HAVE IT YOUR WAY®." BK never fried their burgers on a greasy griddle, they started with a broiler of the founders design in the very beginning.. it remains the differentiation between BK and other burger chains and an economic hurdle for competitors. I believe that even in NYC that BK corporate and franchisees will honor every component of have it your way menu ordering.... the POS register continues to be setup to accept custom burger orders and the POS displays the order/sandwich details at the prep table(s) in addition to printing the custom order on your receipt (if you ask for one)... it may be that you have forgotten about have it your way ordering... mass customization remains a key market differentiation for BK (note how McD sandwich customization, grill orders, were always difficult to get and one waited a long time to receive the sandwich).... I've never found any BK restaurants not able to customize a Whopper Sandwich in reasonable time... ASK the restaurant manager if the kids taking orders don't understand you... they might not like customizing your sandwich during the noon rush at their busiest restaurants but it pays to persist and get a freshly flame broiled patty... BTW, have it your way INCLUDES ordering the equivalent of the old "Big Plain" which a Whopper Sandwich MINUS all the toppings. For those who have forgotten the custom ordering etiquette... SAY: MINUS topping name to subtract a topping ADD (or EXTRA) topping name to add MORE of the topping, the word ADD can be repeated for double or triple of a topping, or one can shortcut, eg, ADD 2 slices of cheese; some people have used the word HEAVY for some topping which may need translation into double or triple portion NOTE: some items like ADD tomato or ADD cheese can come with a price tacked on POST sandwich build one can always ask for extra ketchup or mayo and get the packets... Remember the BK jingle: Hold the pickle, hold the lettuce, special orders don't upset us, All we ask is that you let us serve it your way...

The trademarked Whopper Sandwich is an "experience" which includes your choice of toppings and the associated eating sloppiness... HOWEVER... ANOTHER little known fact of "have it your way" Whopper sandwich build is to ask for your sandwich CUT IN HALF ... you may have never noticed on an uncut Whopper sandwich that the wrapper is folded in a special way (all BK employees are trained in folding technique...lol) ... when one ASKS for cut in half the special folding forms a non-slip pocket for each half holding in all the sandwich toppings making it possible to cleanly eat a Whopper while driving or any other activity... So now everyone has re-learned two ordering opportunities associated with BK "have it your way" .... OFF THE BROILER and CUT IN HALF

I worked at BK corporate HQ in Miami for 5 years in the 90's... I was part of the team creating their "restaurant of the future".... many of the concepts we proposed were never implemented (for lots of reasons) but one of our tasks was to determine if we could change the speed of service profile for the whopper... BKs "have it your way" concept was causing each customized sandwich to be delivered slower than McD was providing their product to the customer and the theory was if we could deliver faster we could drive sales higher. In the on-site food lab many different methods were designed and tested to continue to make a flame broiled sandwich (NOTE: this will ALWAYS continue as the primary differentiation between BK and its fast food competitors) with a high flavor profile (NOTE: relative to competitors products) faster. These tests included changes in the prep table design, change in broiler design, change in whopper component design (food engineering, eg, fast melting cheese), and analysis of meat holding techniques. Unless you've worked in a BK kitchen, you may not realize that there is a steamer/holding area as Fat Guy begins to describe. Prior to our testing ALL meat was flame broiled in small batches based upon projected traffic flow (restaurant manager as the boss over this process) and held in small batches in plastic containers at the prep table. The hold time maximum was I believe 10 minutes before wasting/trashing the patty. Some whopper sandwiches were premade during rush times as some customers never asked for custom sandwich builds. We tested holding the patties longer, holding the prepared whopper longer (than 20 min op allowance) in the chute, holding the patties in the plastic container IN THE STEAMER, microwave times for patties, microwave times for sandwiches, etc. Testing was performed by blind taste panels AND with expert food technologists in the lab. I participated in MANY taste tests (luck? of the job... too bad I never worked at Peter Luger as a steak tester..lol)... The results at the time showed that NO MATTER WHAT WE DID to the patty or sandwich, because a whopper is chock full of so many ingredients, the tasters could RARELY tell whether the meat was freshly broiled or kept in a plastic holding tray in or out of a steamer. The steamer however did add warmed over meat flavors decreasing the flame broiled taste of the meat. Remember the objective was to hold more patties longer independently or as built sandwiches and decrease waste patties (the most expensive component). At that time one of the operations methods we recommended was keeping small batches (under 10 patties) in the steamer for up to 20 minutes before making a sandwich and then up to another 20 minutes in the chute. I can't speak for current BK operating procedures. Every BK restaurant manager (corporate or franchisee) must keep to current BK operating procedures which sometimes slip during very busy or very slack times. I can SUGGEST to every potential BK customer to ASK TO HAVE THEIR WHOPPER "OFF THE BROILER" a too little used phrase these days which FORCES your sandwhich to be built with a patty freshly broiled and not held. NOTE that BK hasn't advertised this or have it your way sandwiches recently, a function of marketing and speed of service competitive necessity. If one orders an OFF THE BROILER whopper and an off the chute whopper and removes the toppings from each and does an A/B taste test between the patties, the off the broiler patty will have the flame broiled taste profile as advertised whilst the off the chute/held patty will have warmed over steamed meat flavors. Remember this isn't chopped Peter Luger steak we're testing... at one time BK's meat was fresh not frozen and sourced only from the USA not Austrailia or other countries. Most people order the whopper for the total flavor profile of the complete sandwich and NEVER take it apart for separate component tasting. Under such circumstance one would hardly call the tomatoes flavorful either. I could go on about the other toppings but I won't.... If you must have BK just remember to ALWAYS order OFF THE BROILER NOTE: some of the young kids behind the counter may look at you funny when you say the phrase, if so, get the manager and INSIST on a freshly flame broiled patty in your sandwich... if that doesn't work, call the BK customer hotline and COMPLAIN.

Todai Plano update... I returned there on Sunday to get the free birthday meal (nothin' better than a FREE lobster/sushi buffet)....several points need to be transmitted to the group: - the food quality has degraded, more expensive items have been deleted, for example, there was no Uni for me to chow down on which was very disappointing - the FREE birthday meal will not be honored unless you bring in at least one person with you, ie, no free buffet if you're alone... So it would seem that Todai Plano is slipping into the same place as other locations previously rated less than satisfactory by others in this thread...

"no dishes" ... ne comprend pas... fried clams.... aged prime rib.... fresh oysters.... sweetbreads.... rotating order...each served on on a paper plate...lol

there's an allUcaneat lobster place on Orange Blossum Trail (Ithink)... sorry forgot the name but last time I was there they oversalted the lobster boil... :(