jhlurie

What was present of the article was very well considered and reported though. My appreciation of the different-ness of Hwang Hae Do may in fact be battling with my awe that there are 27 Korean restaurants in Palisades Park I've never been to. Tenafly, Ridgefield, Ridgefield Park, Cliffside Park and Fort Lee have been my main destinations--although I've probably been to at least fifteen places throughout these towns through the years. I hate to admit this... but going to that seven block stretch of Palisades Park is even MORE like leaving America than going to the Hahn Ah Reum plaza. Yet I should. Also, no doubt, we are biased because we found the place. That said... I still love it. And to be honest about one other thing... we still don't go very far beyond BBQ and Dumplings at Hwang Hae Do. Not that we should have to.

Today's Test, First of all, I'm losing enthusiam for this project. Really, the timing is bad because since I am on a diet (except for last night) I can't properly obliterate the experience by following it up with something which makes me forget the worst of it. Last night, at the eGullet potluck, it was easy. Today? Not so much. But I will muddle through. Food testers do this every single day--I can manage four days. But they can always go home after work and drown their sorrows in Pecan Pie or Larb or something. I'm complaining because the first thing I did this afternoon was to pull the remainder of the "At Last" bar out of the freezer and see if it was any better frozen. And you know... it isn't. The truffle-like center is still nightmarish--now its just frozen AND nightmarish. The outside is still still waxy, as well as nearly odorless. The Mets are still a crappy team and damnit, I want a hamburger. No... two of them. Big, juicy, with cheese even... No skimping on the bun either. Today's main test is the Z-Carb "Gourmet Milk Chocolate Bar with Almonds". I didn't try one last night, but Suzanne F. did, and she swore she tasted Peanuts instead of Almonds. The allergens section of the label admitted that it might have traces in it, but its not actually an ingredient. Hopefully Suzanne isn't allergic. Or I will feel really bad for leaving her to wash all of those dishes after the Potluck. {Rip, rip. Snap. Munch, munch.} It's not bad. Nobody last night had more than a small portion of the Z-Carb, but personally I still think its much better than the At Last (as someone pointed out "Carbolite" is indeed the manufacturer of the "At Last", although they also apparently make other faux-chocolate bars with the exact same mix without that branding. As Suzanne commented, ALL of these bars are waxy compared to real chocolate--not just the "At Last". But to me, the Z-Carb seemed to have a more natural odor and the waxiness went away quicker when it melted in your mouth. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Last night we all agreed that the main problem with ALL of these bars was that the texture of sugar was still missing, and I see as I'm typing this that Fat Guy has elaborated... so I'll refer you back to his most recent post. Anyway... the Almond variety of Z-Carb is a bit different than the kind filled with Peanut Butter, but overall I don't think its any better or worse. I thought the Peanut Butter was a bit creamier, but the Almond variety is obviously a bit more... chocolatey since its solid throughout. One more day, one more bar. The "At Last" Chocolate Almond. I may save the remainder of the Z-Carb Almond to eat head-to-head. But yesterday added at least another 3 days to my diet, so that hamburger is not in my immediate future.

Maybe Suzanne didn't chuck them? I don't know for sure. Rachel. "Friends"? Feh. Maybe we need to come up with a better name for this stuff. I want nothing to do with "Friends". They are not MY Friends. Elyse: Maybe I was projecting my own thoughts at you. I know you said "ass" a few times, and I perhaps thought a few more things were going through your mind (this was based mostly on your expression) at one point, but you may have also been looking at Suzanne's Naked Chefs calendar at the time. I don't properly recall.

Yo, So I fed a few of these to some people at the NY eGullet Potluck (no... it wasn't my "official" contribution). Elyse took to the project with enthusiasm, but quickly started to think of things grosser than "ass" to describe them. Suzanne F patiently munched her way through a few samples, but showed her true feelings by breaking out a bar of REAL chocolate for us to cleanse ourselves with. Fat Guy's face just kind of... turned colors. The consensus, I think, was that I was being a bit too kind to the "Z-Carb", but was quite on target with the "At Last". By the way... Ellen Shapiro asked where the term "snark" came from. At the time I didn't recall, but I've since remembered its Lewis Carroll. As to how, on the Internet, its come to refer to the dispensation of sarcasm, I'm still not sure. At one point it was a main-framey type term which referred to a certain type of systems failure. Somewhere, at some point in time, it made a leap and took on a new meaning.

Indeed it is. NORTH Korean style. They may have a crazy nutty dictator and unfounded rumors of canibalism, but the folks in exile have a nice variant. Technically the place in that plaza is called "Hwang Hae Do". "The Lighthouse" is very good, but not quite in the same league. Close though, if you stick to short ribs and bulgogi. "Koreana", in Fort Lee, is very good. Also, in the same plaza as Hwang Hae Do and Han ah reum is a Chinese/Korean hybrid place, which has some interesting stuff-particularly their Deep Fried Dumplings.

And if no one else will do this... bless you Suzanne for bearing the grunt work of our dirty dishes. Good lord I need teeth whitening. No wonder I never smile (writing note to self to go buy Crest Whitening Strips...). And bags? I think I've got enough to fill the trunk of the Perlow's Caddy under my eyes. Enough about me. No, not really, but we'll have to settle. I have to point out that the "Nice green salad with with oranges" was in fact much better than nice. The photo can't convey the dressing--which frankly was too complex for me to easily explain the taste. Belmont's quiche was excellent, and of course I'm right there with the hurrahs for the Pecan Pie and the Pan de Quejo. Larb balls were great, although I gave Jason the standard razzing for "not making them hot enough" (this is kind of a running inside joke). So no one thinks I MADE baklava of that quality... they are about the only thing "store bought" at the dinner (hey, sorry... I'm the token bad cook at the shindig, but with good judgement). These were from a place called "Cihan Patisserie", in Cliffside Park NJ, which supplies these to top-shelf Middle-Eastern restaurants around the entire Tri-State area, where they jack up the prices by a factor of about four or five times. Best of all? Plenty of ice!

Hello again, I'm off to today's NY eGullet shindig in a while, so I'll be brief. After lunch (a relative term when on a diet, but hey... I've been losing about a pound a day so something is working--not that I won't put it all back on tonight in one meal anyway), I dug into my cupboard and pulled out the first of two "At Last" bars--"Chocolate Truffle" flavor. Etta James is screaming. I would have said "in heaven", but apparently she's still kicking. This is my low-carb sugar-free nightmare come true. I'd say it tasted "like ass", but then some smart person (probably tommy) would ask how I know. Here's a link to a hi-res scan of the entire wrapper, by the way. It's a fairly big file, so it may take a while (even on a fast connection, probably a minute or two, and on dial-up don't even bother). And it was a bitch to keep intact long enough to scan--the wrapper seems to be made of some kind of magical plastic which disintegrates into dust the moment you tear a corner. If you care, I'll trust you to click the link and look at the list of ingredients yourself, because unlike last time, its too scary for me to actually think about long enough to type. To be fair, the actual "mock-late" (TM - Schielke) portion doesn't seem to have ingredients that differ significantly from Z-Carb. They've added some maltodextrin... but hey... a little maltodextrin never hurt nobody... The important thing is what they've left out--taste. I'm chewing on a bit right now, and "ass" comparisons aside, the best thing I can think of is wax. It's like chewing on wax. The mock-late portion of the Z-Carb smelled and tasted like Chocolate. This stuff is like Chocolate's retarded brother that you hide away in the back room and only let out when the social workers visit. The contents of the "chocolate center" are just too disgusting to discuss, both in terms of the ingredients and the taste. It's sweeter than the outside, but that doesn't help much. I'm at a loss for a description... except maybe... its like taking a real chocolate truffle and urinating on it. No that doesn't work--again I'm taunting the tommy-like among you. Let's just say that it tastes bad. Really bad. I'm not being as scientific today. Hesitantly, I just put the remainder (about 3/4 of the bar) in my freezer. I may take a small bite of it tomorrow to see if freezing it helps. And then I'll break open the other Z-Carb bar--Milk Chocolate with Almonds, I think. Later,

The Green Beans at that market looked good tonight (I walked in after going to the drugstore). I eat 'em raw--I'm assuming I'm not the only one. Someone else can schlep carrots if we are really serious about this "vege" thing. Snap Peas looked a bit wiggy, otherwise I'd bring them. I mean, unless the bunch out tomorrow looks better. And Steven... just because YOU could eat five or six pounds of baklava by yourself doesn't mean that an actual human being could eat more than a few pieces. Its not, unfortunately, steak. And since it could get monotonous to eat more, what I might do instead is get a few of the other Turkish desserts to flesh things out. And some green crap. Wait... how many people are actually coming to this thing? Aquitaine's list looks a bit light...

No... the ice was an inside joke. Neither of us is bringing ice from New Jersey. Vegetables can be arranged. Tell you what... I'll bring a package of whatever is fresh at my local Korean fruit/vege stand if somebody else brings dressing or dip or something. And the baklava of course (I figure two pounds should do it, right?)

Ah. Here we go (click here for some sugar-free DaVinci action...) The question is... Would you use it if you didn't have to? That's the ultimate test, isn't it?

My eGullet brethren, Experiment 1B and 1C are complete. At fridge temp, the peanut butter filling is a bit better, although the almost-chocolate portion is perhaps a tad less tasty because at that temp the scent of chocolate (a big part of the chocolate eating experience) seems a bit weaker. Frozen, there is virtually no scent. However, I've always loved the way that chocolate comes "unfrozen" in my mouth... so that almost makes up for it. And peanut butter is always great frozen. What I'd like to see... what I might actually enjoy... would be Dark chocolate made in this fashion. I think they might be better able to pull it off than milk chocolate. Or perhaps I'm fooling myself. Maybe the "Milk Fat" is giving it 50% of what taste there is, and its absense would leave me with a mouth full of Erythritol, Inulin and Sodium Casienate. Yum! Tomorrow certainly won't be a normal eating day, so if I do try some of that yummy yummy "At Last" bar it may be at lunch. If I take any to the eGullet Potluck, I'll likely just give them away anyway (note to self: buy a few spares if you are going to do this). Really at this point I'm still trying to decide whether this is a boon for people who can't have sugar, a nice way to reduce your sugar intake even if you aren't diabetic, or just plain foolishness. I mean I'm NOT diabetic (although its in my family), I'm NOT on Adkins and my usual routine of simply EATING LESS usually works just fine. I was curious if these things were good enough for someone without these conditions to eat casually... and you know, I still haven't decided. And while this is slightly less pathetic than sitting around watching Reality shows on TV... well... not by much. And since I can't think of anything more to say that's either informative, or even slightly witty, I'll be signing off now. 'Night all.

It is. But whether or not you eat it depends on whether or not you buy into this whole thing about "impact carbs". I guess that's much liklier to be important to a diebetic than an Adkins person though... right? Or maybe not. We need an Adkins expert in here to tell us if that's part of their doctrine too. The (as yet untried) "At Last" bar reports 1.0g of impact carbs. The Z-Carbs claim 0.0g. But both seem quite high in "regular" carbs--15g. I'm in one of those diet modes (which I'm totally going to break tomorrow night because of an eGullet outing) where I'm far enough into the diet than my appetite has diminished a bit. The half a bar was filling for me, but I know when I'm not in this "diet zone" that it wouldn't be. For me its all a head game I play with myself. You mean before or after we eat 5 trillion calories of Pecan Pie?

Dear eGullet, I've just returned from my first experiment. To be accurate, lets call it "Experiment 1A", since I haven't finished the first specimen yet. I took one-quarter of the "Z-Carb Gourmet Milk Chocolate Bar with Peanut Butter" and ate it at room temperature. It was a bit soft--no doubt from sitting in one of the less air conditioned parts of the Seven Dash Eleven and then in a little paper baggie in my hot car--but I figure it will have to do. I'm really not an expert in the exact definition of "room temperature". First... the smell test. It smells somewhat like chocolate. That could be because, except for the sugar, Z-Carb seems to be claiming that it is chocolate. Here are the ingredients--their terminology is being used: Real Chocolate (Chocolate Liquor, Erythritol, Inulin, Cocoa Butter, Calcium Carbonate, Milk Fat, Sodium Casienate, Soya Lecithin), Peanut Butter (Peanuts, Partially Hydrogenated Palm, Cottonseed and Rapeseed Oils, Coconut Oil, Sodium Casienate, Milk Fat, Glycerol-Lacto Esters of Fatty Acids With Citric Acid), Natural Flavors, Sucralose Now I'm not sure if the above is EXACTLY chocolate... but I recognize many of the ingredients. I mean "Milk Fat" and I are old buddies. We go on camping trips together. But "Inulin" I'm still trying to figure out--and this reference (click here) is only confusing little ol' me. Apparently my bowels are "supposed to like it". Sodium Casienate (their spelling) is not really liked by Google, which believes I'm talking about "Sodium Caseinate". Or maybe not, since I still get tons of hits. But I know now that its also found in Sugar Free "Fudgie Rolls". As for the Peanut Butter--partially Hydrogenated Oils and all, it isn't that far off. Even "Glycerol-Lacto Esters of Fatty Acids With Citric Acid"? I mean that doesn't sound TOO bad. Does it? Also, because they are trying to fool us into thinking that chocolate--be it fake or real--can be healthy, there is also a special "Functional Ingredients" section on the package: Functional Ingredients: Chocolate Anti-Oxidants, Calcium, Magnesium, PEA, Serotonin, Theobroma, Anandamide. Uh... thanks guys. My noggin' was runnin' a bit low on that Serotonin. I needed a fix. Now the big moment: the tasting. {drum roll} It's actually not horrible. Maybe my stomach will survive. If it tastes kind of like unsweetened chocolate... well... maybe it's because it basically almost is unsweetened chocolate. The Peanut butter smoothes it out a bit and gives it a bit of character. The Splenda (aka "Sucralose"), is it making it sweeter? Impossible to tell unless I had the exact SAME combination of ingredients without the stuff in front of me to compare. And I'm in a bit of a quandry, reporting-wise here, because I'm one of those freakish people who like Mole sauce and other un- or lightly sweetened uses of chocolate as much or more than sweet chocolate. It's also not great. "Gourmet", my sweat-soaked gamey foot. I'm STILL getting 25% of my RDA of Saturated Fat (assuming I finish the thing), and I want more. Especially for the $1.09 plus tax I spent on a 1.2 ounce chocolate bar. I'm going to break the rest into two pieces (I've eaten half of it by now) and freeze one half and refrigerate the other. Just to try it both ways. The rest... can wait a day. I guess I'll try the other brand tomorrow. Click here for a High Res scan of the back of the label--hopefully clear enough to see everything relevant. This is going to be more of a problem tomorrow, because the "At Last" bars are wrapped in those crap-ass crinkly wrappers that fold over themselves and wind up a real mess if you try and keep them intact. EDITED TO GET RID OF ANNOYING UNREADABLE YELLOW TEXT, ORIGINALLY MEANT TO LOOK LIKE SOME CRAP ON THEIR LABEL.

Dear eGullet, The things I'm willing to do for you sometimes... its astonishing, and perhaps a bit pathetic. A few years ago I would have walked right by something like Z-Carb without a second thought. Damn you eGullet! This is really a case of being willing to "take one for the team", I think. Part of this is intellectual curiousity, part the fact that I'm currently on a diet (but NOT a low-carb diet), and part a sickness brought on by one too many nights sitting in front of my computer debating the high and low points of Marshmallow Peeps with Fat Guy. I just have an irresistible urge to try things, and if they are good rave, and if they aren't... snark. We've spoken at length about Splenda on the boards, and its frequent use in soda, and lo and behold today--while shopping for breath mints in my local Seven Dash Eleven I stumble upon: and So Splenda has made its way to fake chocolate now. The names, and the packaging, are somewhat discouraging. There's a big potential market with Splenda to market it to people who are simply trying to cut down on sugar, without pressing all of those buttons that the hard-core Adkins crowd relies on. The point is... Splenda is the first artificial sweetener with a fighting chance of drawing in mainstream "eaters", because chemically its the most similar to "real" sugar. When its pigeonholed as some kind of Adkins specialty thing... it means that they can charge more for it, but they sacrifice mass appeal. In total, I bought four bars--two of each brand. "At Last" features the scrumtuous sounding "Chocolate Truffle" and "Chocolate Almond", and Z-Carb the lovely "Gourmet Milk Chocolate Bar with Almonds" and "Gourmet Milk Chocolate Bar with Peanut Butter". I'm willing to risk tossing my cookies with one of these a day. How bad can it be?

At least (presumably with Shaw there) he didn't make the rookie mistake of asking the surly Irish guy "what kinds of beer do you have?" That's always a joy to watch in McSorley's... from a safe distance.

Will you guys knock it off and resume making fun of 10,000 unqualified gun-happy amateurs running out into the New Jersey woods and getting mauled by annoyed bears?

Oh good. Will the contract prevent you from helping us make fun of this?

Okay, someone help me. My memory is gone. Which is the book where Wolfe gets dragged off to some kind of Spa to meet with a group of Chefs? ETA - Never mind. Google helped - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8907/nero.html It's obviously "Too Many Cooks" What I recall of it is that it showed a bit of Stout's worst side, and its one of the more dated books, although interesting since Wolfe was out and about, and thus extra surly.

The books should really be read in order. Even though time operates very oddly in the Wolfian universe, it just doesn't make sense otherwise.

Please some one else hit the report this post button this time. My wrist hurts. Hobbes, don't take this personally. We always give dupe posters a bit of hell. It's just that this topic holds some kind of record for dupes. Its not a crime, or actionable in any way. In fact, a link to the main Rocco\"The Restaurant" thread is on the eG front page right now, so maybe that will cut down on these duplications by... like... 1%. ETA - Okay, now we are talking. The above few posts make no sense until you realize that some of this stuff used to be in about seven different threads and got merged.

jon, help everyone out and go get some ice. k? now. Errr. No tommy. It's your turn.

Er... "apiece". Not "a piece". Meaning the two of us would probably binge until we ate 5000 calories worth each, assuming other people got bored with the pie. Not that we'd really do that, I just wanted to encourage you in the "pie" chanting. As you may or may not know eGullet has a tradition of people yelling out the word "pie". Ask Jinmyo (although with her its always a meat pie). I'm having visions now of that Simpsons episode where that chef makes the eclair for homer which is supposed to kill him from too much fat.

Elyse, I can tell you that if you bring a Pecan Pie, at the very minimum Jason Perlow and I will commit to eating... lets say... 5000 calories worth apiece if nobody else is interested. BTW: I am not, I repeat not, bringing any ice. Someone else bring the ice. Rachel - Watermelon is fruit, not dessert!

Didn't think I'd make it when this topic was fresh, but all of this talk of "PIE!" is at least interesting. Since my cooking is pathetic, I'd probably head over to the little Turkish bakery in my neighborhood (they supply a lot of the Turkish restaurants in the area) and supplement that Pie with some baklava. I mean its better than more seafood, right?

I have no problem with the bears being killed. I have a problem with 10,000 people, with various unverified levels of expertise, being sent out into the woods to shoot at a type of animal which hasn't been hunted in 30+ years in this area. Seems like a recipe for disaster. Other areas with bear hunting make a regular affair of it.