Nathan

hmm...I'm thinking for my next one: 2 Junipero 1 vermouth. .5 violette (I couldn't taste it at .25 with the absinthe) dash or two Edouard

going to disagree with Robuchon for the same reason that JG et al don't count.

In one sense he qualifies, but does the fact that neither you nor I remember his name disqualify him at the moment ? ← that's probably exactly why he does qualify! Rocco would if he had anything open at all. Tyler Florence lives in NoLIta and I know that he's been scouting space on and off for a restaurant for years...(has he ever been a real chef?)

also the guy at Perilla

not in many years. but does Flay cook?

Roy

I don't have it in front of me but I think it was: 2 gin (Plymouth) .75 d vermouth .25 violette 2 dashes absinthe was way too much (I couldn't taste anything else) so was 1

I'm using Edouard 72. one dash completely overwhelms the drink no matter how careful I try to be. I'm thinking maybe 1 drop? I know some of you love this cocktail...

although Friday fish fries are ubiquitous in Milwaukee (and the northside of Chicago)...they have nothing to do with fish and chips. beer-battered cod or walleye is served with potato pancakes. nothing to do with fish and chips. edit: fish fries aren't a midwestern tradition...per se...they show up in strongly Catholic areas...i.e. the Polish areas of Illinois and Wisconsin...and the Catholic German parts of Illinois and Wisconsin (as opposed the Lutheran German parts). you won't find them in, say, Minnesota because the Swedes and Norwegians are Lutherans. further edit: the best fried fish is to be found in Italy anyway.

there apparently are a couple izakaya and yakitori places in Paris: Isse and Sushicho. how similar their menus are to those in NY I don't know.

Seriously, WTF?? They list the olive garden as the best Italian restaurant in the state. The second best Japanese restaurant in the state is Benihana. It's good to see that McCormick and Schmick's edged out Red Lobster and Scotty Simpson's Fish & Chips (second and third respectively) for the best seafood restaurant. That list is a disaster. Maybe that truck stop with the nachos is the best place to eat... ← to be fair, that was a reader poll. heck...Zagat is a travesty in NY too. it'd be nice to see a critic's list for Detroit. fwiw, my meal at the Rattlesnake Club was pretty good (albeit lacking in subtlety): http://www.rattlesnakeclub.com/

here are the menus for the best restaurants in Milwaukee that I've eaten at on my once a year visit to friends over the last couple years (a pretty small city and practically a suburb of Chicago...except that it doesn't ban foie gras): http://www.rootsmilwaukee.com/menus/dinner.html (I'll note that the cocktail list here is obscenely bad) http://www.paysbig.com/dining/dreamdancemenu.htm the wine list is here: http://www.paysbig.com/dining/dreamdancewines.htm http://www.bacchusmke.com/ http://www.sanfordrestaurant.com/sanford-r...ukee-dining.htm http://www.lakeparkbistro.com/docs/menu.html (ok, this one's not very inspiring but it's the best French restaurant north of Chicago and is one of the prettiest restaurants I've ever eaten at) (neither did I include the menu for Campezuchi on Brady....which is far better than any Mexican restaurant in NY)

well...that's the debate about New Orleans.

I don't think it's a linear relationship. IOW, just because a city is twice or half as big doesn't necessarily mean that it has twice or half as many really, really, really, really good restaurants. Hey, can we call them "R4" instead of really, really, really, really? That's ridiculous; of course it is! Heck, Stamford and Greenwich and much of Fairfield County are suburbs of New York, towns in which large numbers of commuters drive or take the train into the city every day. And correct me if I'm wrong, but outside of prime commuting times, my recollection is that it's more like 35-40 minutes between AA and the RenCen, not an hour. As to what is, and isn't, part of a metropolitan area, what is a reasonable time someone would be expected to travel to an R4 good restaurant? Because, when you live in a city of 6 million people, it's not unusual for someone to need to travel 35-40 minutes if they want to try an R4 restaurant, whether that means a Southgate resident driving to Pontiac, or a Grosse Pointer going to Novi, or a U of M professor going downtown. Heck, when you ask people from Indianapolis to name the best place in town, many will name Tallent, which is in Bloomington, home of IU, 50 miles away (and a lot further from the built-up areas of Indy than AA is from the built-up areas of Detroit). (Even though I disagree with the recommendation, that's what they'll tell you.) Chicago, of course, is a much bigger city (although only half as big as New York), stretching over 100 miles north to south. So if you live in Gurnee and you want to go to the exquisite Tallgrass in Lockport, you will be driving a good hour and a half each way, NOT in rush hour. ← well airfare search engines consider Philadelphia to be a suburb of New York (and I know for a fact that there are people who commute daily from Philly to NY for work...yeah, they're crazy)....but at some point it gets ridiculous if the definition is that elastic.

where exactly have you eaten in Chicago or New York? you're not really entitled to an opinion on the subject until you've eaten at the best of both cities. I mean...this looks like a decent truck stop diner menu: http://traffic-jam.com/menu.html have you ever eaten at a real restaurant?

I think this is germane: tomorrow's NY Times is running an article on the burgeoning dining scenes of Kansas City, Milwaukee, Minneapolis and St. Louis.

"multiple examples of ethnic restaurants at or approaching the fine dining level"...Mario's and Andiamo fill that requirement. ← Andiamo is a mediocre "greatest hits of Italian-American cooking" type of restaurant. but anyway. since coming back to the U.S. I've lived in five American cities besides New York and Chicago. every single one of them has local boosters and media who purport that it "has the greatest diversity of ethnic and fine dining outside of New York and Chicago." my guess is that every city in America over a million people (and probably under) claims this. they can't all be right. ← Why not? ← cause the statement is, by definition, an exclusive one. (besides, last time I checked, both San Francisco and L.A. were part of the U.S.)

"multiple examples of ethnic restaurants at or approaching the fine dining level"...Mario's and Andiamo fill that requirement. ← Andiamo is a mediocre "greatest hits of Italian-American cooking" type of restaurant. but anyway. since coming back to the U.S. I've lived in five American cities besides New York and Chicago. every single one of them has local boosters and media who purport that it "has the greatest diversity of ethnic and fine dining outside of New York and Chicago." my guess is that every city in America over a million people (and probably under) claims this. they can't all be right.

bourbon and cacao do go well together...throw in a citrus component and I've been able to come up with a couple decent drinks using that combo.

I've been to three of these (on expense accounts): granted, they're not high on your list. the Rattlesnake Club was a pretty good steakhouse. Andiamo basically sucked. ditto for Seldom Blues. I've heard good things about The Lark. I'll start: 1. The Lark 2. Tribute 3. Coach Insignia 4. Rugby Grill 5. Forte 6. Shiraz 7. Small Plates 8. The Whitney 9. Zinc 10. Shiro 11. Crush 12. Crave 13. The Rattlesnake Club 14. The Hill 15. Bambu 16. Hong Hau 17. Mon Jin Lau 18. Fiddlehead 19. Vie Nove 20. Assaggi 21. Northern Lakes Seafood 22. Iridesence 23. Five Lakes Grill 24. Little Italy 25. Bucci 26. No. VI Chop House 27. Mario's 28. Nomi 29. McKinnon's 30. Giovanni's 31. Carl's Chop House 32. 220 33. Big Rock Chop House 34. Il Posto 35. D'Amato's 36. Cafe Cortina 37. Cuisine 38. Bacco 40. The Earle 41. The Earle Uptown 42. The Lord Fox 43. The Fox and Hound 44. The Sea Grille 45. Evan's Street Station 46. Mediterrano 47. Camaron's 48. Mitchell's Fish Market 49. Andiamo 50. Loon River Cafe 51. Paint Creek Grill 52. Seldom Blues 53. La Musique 54. Sweet Georgia Brown 55. Fishbones These are all locally owned. And there are more. ←

Portland. but Portland's unique in a lot of ways. Ottawa too. but I agree with your point.

I've lived in Chicago and I now live in NY. there are several food areas where Chicago kicks NY's a__. cocktails isn't one of them. Seattle, San Francisco, Cleveland and Atlanta (of late) have been in on the cocktail renaissance. Chicago...not so much.

The first serious cocktail place in the city? That's maybe just a little overstated. Below are two, the latter being around for about a hundred years (seriously). More generally, many, if not most, medium- and high-end restaurants here have pretty serious/modern cocktail menus. Not to distract from the main topic though, I'm glad The Violet Hour has opened and I wish them the best. The Matchbox 770 N Milwaukee Ave Chicago, IL 60622 (312) 666-9292 The Green Mill 4802 N Broadway St Chicago, IL 60640 (773) 878-5552 ← no, it's true. in terms of cocktail craft the Violet Hour would be the first serious place in Chicago in many years. there are a couple places like Matchbox where they're at the Employees Only/Angel's Share level...i.e. they at least use fresh squeezed lemon and lime juice..etc. but good luck going off menu or finding a decent selection of bitters.

ate at Kampuchea on Saturday evening. pork belly was succulent enough but a little overcooked. grilled freshwater prawns with pickles were terrific. the pickles had little bits of chiles interspersed....nice touch. a service plus was the wet naps brought after this course. did a tasting of various sandwhiches. these were fine....but frankly, as with the bahn mi at Momofuku Ssam....I don't find these especially more enjoyable than the $3.25 bahn mi available at several different holes in the wall...(I'm sure the ingredients are better but.....) cold vermicelli with chinese sausages and pork was quite good. on par with the noodle dishes at Fatty Crab. washed it all down with a good, if a little off-dry, Gewurztraminer. overall, what we had was more than good enough for me to return. I thought the level of execution was close to that of Fatty Crab...but the highs I've had at Fatty Crab were higher...but obviously we didn't sample most of the Kampuchea menu.