Nathan

whoops! tomorrow then.

I'd almost guarantee you could walk in tonight and snag a table. I imagine one issue with bar/lounge dining is the size of the kitchen...with a full dining room it'd be very hard to put out dishes for the bar/lounge as well.

oh, I hope they do expand the wine list. (I wasn't saying that a sommelier needed to be "of stature" but rather who they've brought in illustrates the focus they've taken.)

well yeah, Eben's doing the cocktails...I haven't heard of them bringing in a sommelier of that stature (that's not to say that they haven't)

correct.

yeah...that olive cake was good.

I think it's cheesy.

after eating at Tailor last night I'll say...that you can throw one more clear example into the mix.

one other thought: Tailor is most definitely a "New Paradigm" restaurant.

well...they've tried before. I certainly wish them luck. I think the tackiness of the decor and their reputation as a B&T engagement spot mitigates against the food being taken seriously. but, hey, if they pull it off....

the savories are extraordinary. this was one of the best meals I've ever had in NY. perhaps the second best.

there were six of us so we had three of everything. I talked about some of the cocktails up the thread from my previous visit. also highly recommend the Chanterais (a Sidecar variation with roasted walnut infused cognac, dandelion cointreau and lemon juice). unfortunately, this will be off the menu soon due to supply difficulties. the bourbon and smoked coke is very interesting. I don't like dessert so I didn't really have preferences among the sweet dishes. none were that sweet (which made them tenable for me) and they all seemed to be extremely well-executed.

there are tourists with taste and tourists without taste...just like there are NY'ers with taste and NY'ers without taste. but..."tourist traps"....in any city....are called that for a reason. what else would you call Tavern on the Green?

in Italy single seatings are the norm even at low-end restaurants.

based upon one meal, Tailor is one of the best restaurants in NY. ate there last night. seating is comfortable, the service professional. Eben's full cocktail list has been unveiled in all its glory. they're good, quite good. I'm generally not a fan of cocktails that use various kitchen techniques (too often it's basically food or dessert with alcohol added as an afterthought)...but these are really good. the food is among the best in NY (as in top-5). it's seriously that good. foie gras with peanut butter was simply the best foie course I've ever had. the other courses were spectacular as well (the poached arctic char could have used a tad bit of salt). pork belly, artichoke and butterscotch....wow! the duck "tartare"..... we had the entire menu...there were no clunkers. even when I thought I spotted a cliche (slivers of jicama)....they turned out to instead be playful bits of green apple (providing a welcome tartness). the cuisine at Tailor isn't really "molecular"...but it is avant garde in the sense that it uses ingredients that aren't normally placed together....and they all work. go. go now. go.

the only versions I'm familiar with involve the maraschino. (one of the better house drinks at Employees Only is actually a standard Martinez.) my understanding is that the Martini most probably originated simply from dropping the maraschino in the Martinez.

what about Zen on St. Mark's? (I think they have a place on Avenue A as well.) I've never tried their sushi...but some of their izakaya items and ramen are adequate (I didn't say it was good!)....and it's quite cheap (with very very cheap Sapporo after 10 PM!)

well, I included Aureole because it doesn't seem like foodies go there. but, I know plenty of people who do eat there (partners and the like)...i.e. not really foodies but people who generally eat well (they seem to be identical to the group of Zagat voters that I know). I wasn't counting business lunches/dinners. obviously midtown is replete with expensive restaurants that survive upon the business/business-visitor trade. given Vong's location you're right that it almost certainly gets some of that. edit: Fiamma, of course, has the reputation of being the only decent/good Hanson restaurant. but the chef has left and I haven't had any recent reports. it's certainly a bit of an exception compared to the others due to its having some credibility. I do know someone with the Hanson group who works with all of their restaurants around the country (but based in NY) who verifies that the Hanson restaurants in NY generally rely upon out-of-towners....I don't know if that applies to Fiamma though.

fwiw, I don't see much here that's not at the bars in the Room chain. on the other hand, they don't serve food.

as for the original question about Vong: I'll note that the restaurant is a facsimile of the Le Colonial chain (or maybe it's the reverse...I don't know which opened first). I've been to them in a number of cities (ran in the same circle as some of the ownership)....they were very trendy when they opened, tended to become coke/nightlife hangouts, usually had adequate food (I'm betting Vong was/is better), and eventually became tourist traps combined with a bit of a Euro crowd.

La Grenouille Cafe des Artistes Shun Lee, Philippe, etc. virtually all of the douchebagging district restaurants (Spice Market, Morimoto et al) Tavern on the Green Aureole Barolo Tao Cafe Carlyle One if By Land Two if By Sea any Steven Hanson restaurant in some cases its tourists (I'd bet that's a lot of Vong's business, others it's Eurotrash (Barolo -- its a big UN hangout, various places in midtown close to central park, Da Silvano's, Bruno's, Frederick's), others its B&T/tourists (the entire MP, OIBLTIBS), and for others its an older, monied, non-foodie crowd who like to go to places they're familiar with (Cafe des Artistes, Cafe Carlyle, Shun Lee). now obviously, none of these places rely upon exclusively one crowd or the other...but they do happen to have one or more groups that stand out (at least to my knowledge....I've never eaten at Shun Lee (I have had delivery) but the only people I know who eat there are people who grew up in the city and it's the place where their parents go).

I'll report on Sunday night but I don't take food pictures...possibly someone in the group will.

under $20 (with tax and tip) isn't going to happen anywhere that's within the realm of "decent"

I've heard good thing about Esashi. but if the $15-20 pp pricetag of Todai is too much....

well, good cheap sushi is an oxymoron (at least in terms of how your friends are apparently defining "cheap")...they might be better off trying a different cuisine.