Nathan

dined at the bar with a friend on Saturday evening. place was packed. filling up with bar diners as well when we left at close to 11. pretty space. comforting, sort of polished-rustic...goes with the food well (cause that's exactly what the food is: polished rustic). both the hamachi and the scallop apps were good. liked the celery root cream. really liked the pork belly with the fenugreek and the onion-like parsnips (Ferguson appears to really love his onions...they're everywhere). ultimately, this is elemental food made by a sophisticated kitchen....thus, polished rustic. its missing the global accents and surprising (or even jarring) tastes that we expect from haute food today, but at this (relatively) gentle pricing...its gonna be a mainstay. its also going to be an awesome place to take non-foodies and still get a really good meal.

[Moderator note: The original Momofuku Ssam Bar topic became too large for our servers to handle efficiently, so we've divided it up; the preceding part of this discussion is here: Momofuku Ssam Bar (2006-2007)] that new squid and shrimp stew is kind of boring. all the ingredients are good, it's just not very interesting. kind of like a moqueca. for this genre, I find myself preferring something like the Thai tom kha...where the mellowness of the coconut milk is balanced with the assertive snap of galangal.

1. yes, interest in serious cocktails is definitely increasing...the real proof of that is the number of restaurants that are finally taking cocktails seriously...places that you wouldn't even expect, like Back 40 and Dell'Amina. so, it's there. 2. no, it's not enough to fill these places up. 3. D&C and PDT have had a fair amount of "hot" writeups...thus all the goose/soda orders on the weekends. Thursday through Sunday (and sometimes during the week) you'll see large groups of B&T being turned away from both of those places (because of space, not because they're B&T). with time, that will fade. put it this way, there are plenty of people (most?) who think of D&C and PDT in exactly the same way that think of La Esquina. M&H has had this cachet for years. 4. it's always been the case that most of the people at Flatiron Lounge are not there for the cocktails. that's true of Pegu on the weekends as well. probably true of any bar that size.

checked out the Black Flip and Harvest Moon (among others) last night....its going to be a fun menu...we had a great time.

Landmarc in the TWC is probably a reasonably decent place to eat with kids.

It's important not to confuse "best" with "most innovative". Ssäm Bar is definitely the most innovative restaurant of the last three years, or indeed, quite possibly the last ten. But because no one else has served two-star food in a zero-star environment, Chang's food seems better than it is. If the identical concept were moved into a real restaurant setting—thereby eliminating most of what makes Ssäm Bar unique—everyone would realize that it is simply a decent two-star restaurant. ← with all respect, that's ridiculous. according to your blog, you've had exactly two dishes there (neither of which were among the best 50% of the menu, and one of which was only on the menu briefly)...the food is much, much better than that.

it means that people she thought were leaving instead ordered more drinks.

one off meal (with significant extenuating circumstances) isn't a reason to publicly disparage a restaurant you normally have good meals at

after wine, tax and tip, Hearth and Degustation are definitely around the $100 point. Ssam Bar can be. and the point holds, those aren't "neighborhood restaurants" by EV standards.

We ordered almost the entire menu, so the salad excuse isn't going to work. It's some of the worst foie I've had in NY. ← the foie was great. guess you had an offnight. edit: who exactly in the EV is doing anything like those gingered scallops? its not a dish they would do at Ssam Bar but it's at that level of creativity. who else? they're sure not serving that at Casimir or Veselka. I don't recall Veselka having better foie either. ← What about at Degustation, Le Miu, Knife + Fork, EU (none of which I like but all of which are equally or more proficient and are just as much EV restaurants), Ssam Bar, NoodleBar and about 30 other restaurants I haven't named. Unless I am in some sort of world where I can't spend more than $35 for dinner, I have no reason to eat at Graffiti. ← 1. some of us can't spend a $100-300 on dinner 7 nights a week. (probably most of us). so getting back to the real world.... 2. I said Ssam Bar. EU is most definitely not doing anything like that. Hearth is at that level of proficiency but not creativity. there are hundreds of restaurants in the EV. a restaurant doing things that only a couple of those hundreds can do is not, in any imaginable way, a "neighborhood restaurant". 3. but then Ssam Bar is not a neighborhood restaurant. neither is Hearth (not in the EV. in some neighborhoods it would be). neither is Degustation. nor le Miu. nor is Graffiti. just because you eat in restaurants like that nightly doesn't make them neighborhood restaurants. cause most EV'ers most certainly do not.

We ordered almost the entire menu, so the salad excuse isn't going to work. It's some of the worst foie I've had in NY. ← the foie was great. guess you had an offnight. edit: who exactly in the EV is doing anything like those gingered scallops? its not a dish they would do at Ssam Bar but it's at that level of creativity. who else? they're sure not serving that at Casimir or Veselka. I don't recall Veselka having better foie either.

I'll say it again, the quintessial EV "neighborhood restaurants" are places like: Flea Market, Casimir, 26 Seats, Paul's, Belcourt, Veselka etc.

of course the charm (it's very charming) and the price figure in! if they charged three times as much I'd be more critical. but they don't. I'm sure that everyone here who loves Degustation would be a lot more critical if it charged $125....but it doesn't.

edit: here was my meal: http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=107961#3 I'd suggest going back and ordering something other than salads.

Per Se...which I haven't been to but I'm assuming its better than Ssam Bar.

I know what you're saying. in my hood there is only one credible bar (Little Branch...which is uneven, half the staff can't make anything off-menu)...but it's impossible to get into (I have "pull" with a fair amount of WV doormen but not at LB) plus a few restaurants where you can do ok if you stay on the menu. at least there is Flatiron and Pegu. I have, however, found that almost always you can do one or the other of D&C or PDT if you arrive between 11 and 12....as a party of no more than one or two. that seems to be the sweet spot...

there's also a $1 oyster (with $5 martinis) happy hour special at Five Points. my employment isn't conducive to happy hour but I can't imagine the quality level not being high.

best restaurant to open in NY in three years. imho.

PDT only admits as many as can be seated (pretty much). its a small place. its virtually always full or close to being full.

There's almost nothing on the menu at Itzocan Cafe like anything anyone else is serving in the EV. But it's still absolutely a quintessential East Village neighborhood restaurant. Because it's tiny, cheap, and bad. ← well, Graffiti is good...(at least the night I was there...and as the relevant thread shows...I'm not the only one to have eaten there). I wouldn't call Itzocan an EV neighborhood restaurant either. Flea Market, Casimir, 26 Seats, Paul's, Belcourt.....those are "EV neighborhood restaurants".

this should get you started: http://www.aquagrill.com/oysterspage.htm

Lots of places have an inspired oyster presentation (Ssam Bar), lots of places have a few good varieties (Lure, Balthazar); but Aquagrill probably stands out.

Hill Country is perfect for groups

I'm incredulous that anyone would call Graffiti "just an east village neighborhood place"...there's almost nothing on that menu like anything that anyone else is serving in the EV.

I can't fathom the InnLW12 making anyone's top ten list. and it's going to close soon anyway.....it's dead most nights (I walk past it every evening). as noted above, Ssam Bar didn't start serving dinner before 10 until January. Tailor is to me the major omission. Soto has receive rave reviews from everyone so I fail to see how it could be knocked off. Hill Country is certainly a possible but I'm not sure which restaurant on the top 10 I would remove for it. (Bruni did have good things to say about Hill Country in his essay.) there's no question that one could come up with an excellent top 15...but to make that into a top 10 that's drastically different (in inclusion, not necessarily in order) from Bruni's seems difficult.