Nathan

Montparnasse, Papillon, Cafe Joul, Deux Amis, Rue 57, Tout Va Bien, Le Marais, Pigalle, Chez Napoleon, Le Marais, Triomphe....and quite a few more. many of which are on the east side. just because we don't go to them doesn't mean they don't exist. a little stroll will easily run across examples. I agree that Ducasse didn't get NYC tastes. that was precisely my point up the thread.

1. no one said anything about "high quality" French bistros in midtown. 2. what's sad about Adour is that it looks to be full at 5:30 and not at 9....now maybe the demographic that dines at early bird hours spends so much money that it doesn't matter... 3. restaurants in NY are supposed to be full on the weekend. it's being full on Tuesday night that's hard. 4. he's failed twice in NY before, I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt. with that said, being in the St. Regis is a bit of a safety net.

Except...it is. I can assure you it's not just "neighborhood folk" that make Balthazar so tough to get into. ← well, Balthazar is sui generis. it somehow combines tourists, B&T, uptowners and locals into one big happy family. but true, it is a destination restaurant for many people.

depending upon the location and pricepoint, that's precisely what they sometimes do consider (using our names in the generic sense). Ducasse has failed here twice already...and Adour isn't exactly full...though it does seem to be doing a fair amount of hotel business. there are plenty of restaurants in midtown with similar menus. I'm sure Benoit will execute better than them. he might do just fine on tourist and business traffic. but that would be a sad reflection on the Ducasse name.

Look at the thread title. (That's the problem when people put important information in the thread title and don't repeat it in the body. People tend to skip it.) ← ah, my bad. ok. Jo-Jo has a nice lunch pre fixe at that price point. with that said, the group of 10-20 may well pose a problem. worth calling though.

the thing is, I have nothing against a simple grilled salmon in bernaise. I just have no interest in going to midtown for it. If it's only a bit better than Balthazar, what's the point in traveling for it? Balthazar (as much as I enjoy it), isn't a destination restaurant either.

it was linked to on Eater last week.

Yes, but us bunch of foodies are trying to stay within the parameters of the original poster's topic - i.e. the upper east side. None of the restaurants you name fit that bill. ← I'm pretty sure that she was telling us that it was a bunch of seniors...not asking for the UES. with that said, the problem with JG et al lunch deals is that few of them could accomodate a group of 10-20...and if they did, they'd usually make them spend quite a bit more. Brasserie 8 1/2 might work.... the private room probably isn't gonna happen.

it's really a shame, but the menu looks absurdly boring and conservative. even when compared to say, Balthazar. it's bizarre. he seems to be making the same blunder that any number of recent foreign celebrity chef imports have made: completely underestimating the palates of NYer's... they really need to stop judging us based upon the general tendencies of American tourists in Europe. (it doesn't help that travel guides to NY for Europeans tend to send them to the most hackneyed and played-out uptown restaurants.)

throw in Perry Street too.

at your "standard meal" price point, besides the places already mentioned, consider: Babbo, A Voce, Bar Blanc, Allen & Delancey, Tailor, Momofuku Ssam Bar.

all of Manhattan is easily accessible and midtown is among the less interesting culinary areas (except for the very high-end) so most recommendations will be elsewhere. WD-50 is indeed a great idea. other choices at that price point for a blowout meal would include Jean Georges, Daniel or Eleven Madison Park. I would just eat bbq in St. Louis but if you must try it in NY, Hill Country and R.U.B. are the way to go....especially Hill Country. the Burger Joint is indeed good. one restaurant in midtown that is right at your intended price point is the terrific Bar Room at the Modern. with care you could also eat at Esca for that. Mia Dona is cheaper and also good. as for downtown, there are so many superlative options that a fuller discussion of your interests and tastes would be a good idea.

DeChellis' explanation is here: http://nymag.com/daily/food/2008/04/barfry..._the_ghost.html I don't think it's the space. Market Table is right next door and doing plenty of business. Deborah is across the street and usually packed. it's only a stone's throw from the restaurant row of Bedford.

This opened just the other week. Not sure what the title refers to...it's really contemporary restaurant comfort food...with a couple deviations...pulled pork and pho, for example. small, but well-chosen wine and beer list. pleasant service. last night we had chicken liver crostini...silky smooth and buttery, a salmon nicoise-type salad (excellent ingredients...spring helps), and very good lamb dish with cous-cous. portions are generous and prices are very reasonable. kind of the ideal neighborhood place...(not as good as say Little Owl, but you can get in here) if this place were in the EV, it would be getting Seymour Burton type attention...

you know, this has become a really solid place for straightforward fare.

if you like 90's style sickly-sweet crap with unchilled glasses, barely shaken...but pretty...than you'll like these.

except for at its opening...this place has been definitely off the foodie radar. there's a reason for that, it kind of sucks. at the same time, it is much more ambitious and much more expensive than at its opening. tasting menus vary from $65 to $110. some of the savories are interesting conceptually, but most are ultimately really desserts. while the explicitly sweet side of the menu is really, really sickly sweet. this isn't like Tailor where the savories tend a little sweet and the sweets a little savory. no such balance here. cocktails are quite poor. lots of work go into them...and they're really pretty....lots of emphasis on visual presentation. but no cocktail craft whatsoever. for example, the best cocktail is probably the Bangkok Margarita...which at least tries to mitigate the sweetness with some heat. the idea isn't awful. the other drinks are. nevertheless, a restaurant this pretty and this expensive (you are not eating here ala carte for less than $100 a person)...should be reviewed by all the pros. it's just not the same place as when it opened. by the way, it's usually packed.

ate here again with a friend last night. new dishes (to me anyway) included: sea urchin over couscous....lots of butter and stock creating something very like a rich risotto. a rhubarb variation on the fried apple pie. an "Arnold Palmer" sorbet....very clever idea. a kiwi sorbet. this time the foie dish had (pickled?) grapes instead of the lychees. I liked this even more. third time I've had the foie. I really do think it's the best restaurant dish I've had in NY.

they were added a couple months ago. it's a few pages back on the thread.

well, I just booked a reservation for later this month....though I'll probably end up cancelling and eating at the bar.

I'm just talking about north of Tribeca and south of union square.

probably one visit. it wasn't technically a review and therefore not subject to the Times review policy.

the thing is, midtown already has a crapload of restaurants that look like Balthazar (they usually don't have the same level of detail but....)

Rather one might compare, say, the orchestral compositions of Benjamin Britten to those of Paul McCartney. Paul McCartney is a brilliant musician, and turns out very good music. But his music is simply inferior to Brittens when considered within the context of the classical tradition. Not that I think McCartney cares one whit. He's bringing his popular style into the orchestral concert hall and blending it with the classical tradition. But I think it was always meant to be what was ultimately popular music elevated to the classical concert arena. In a sense, that is what Chang et al are doing with Momofuku Ko. I don't think it makes sense to think of their work there as fine dining that has been "casualed-down" so much as it is their street-haute fusion food that has been "fine-dininged-up." Chang himself, I believe, has said that it's ridiculous to assert that Ko is better than Per Se. And I am quite sure that Sir Paul would say that it's ridiculous to assert that Ecce Cor Meum is superior to the War Requiem. ← what's tougher would be a classical/jazz comparison...as opposed to classical/pop. considering that Masa has four stars...it's clear that sushi has become jazz to continental dining's classical....accepted (at least by many) as an equal player. my question is....aren't sushi bars a more appropriate comparison for Ko than Per Se?

That's pretty remarkable. Did you have any say in that before the meal started? I'll be pretty chapped next week if I don't get the foie dish I had on my first visit but it's being offered to first timers. ← I had the same experience - on our second visit they greeted us with a "welcome back" and said they'd chatted during the afternoon to make sure we got some different stuff. We got a variation on the foie dish, with pickled grapes and cashew. ← I've been to Ko four times and, in my experience, they are very aware of repeat diners. (On at least three of my visits, other diners there were also repeat visitors.) This is what I have observed about menu variations. It appears that there are no alternatives (and only minimal variation) for the already-classic dishes -- the egg and caviar, the shaved foie gras, the deep-fried short-ribs. For a couple of the other courses, there appear to be standard alternatives. Although the staff will try to give repeat diners alternates they have not previously had, the alternates are not limited to repeat diners. Often, for a couple, one person will get one dish and the second person the other. More specifically-- With respect the amuses, if they have something special, it may be offered as a third amuse, but it is offered to everyone there -- not just repeat diners. Of the six main savory courses, there appear to be standard alternates for two courses and a variant on a third. 1) The standard fluke with buttermilk alternates with a dish of shrimp and grated, frozen avocado. 2) The kimichi consomme/pork belly/oyster alternates with a spring pea soup containing a tofu canelloni filled with trumpet mushrooms and, at times, topped with either lobster or crayfish. 3) As noted above, the shaved foie gras is sometimes prepared with grapes and cashew brittle, instead of the standard lychee and pine nut brittle. The "palate cleanser" of miso soup/pickled vegetables/grilled rice cake remains constant. The pre-dessert is one of an assortment of sorbets. The dessert is either the deep fried apple pie or the cereal milk panna cotta, although on one occasion I was served a deep-fried strawberry rhubarb pie. ← the spring pea soup was topped with a grilled langoustine when I had it...but that's pretty much what I've seen. there's also more than one scallop dish floating around.