Milagai
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actually it's a great combination.
it approximates a south indian peanut / tamarind paste
called "pulikaachal" that is usually mixed with rice,
but makes fantastic sandwich spread.
usually pulikaachal is made without garlic, but there
might be a garlic version in some communties,
and the general combination of peanut + tangy is very
classic peninsular indian....
milagai
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the patak's garlic pickle is similar. perhaps not as sweet as the eggplant - but definitely a sweet component.
and i still stand by garlic pickle and peanut butter spread on toast.
what kind, what brand?
there are such a jillion many different kinds of pickle,
so when someone just says "mango pickle" or "lime pickle"
one has no idea what they mean.
in mango pickle - the saltiest ones are the "south indian tender baby
mango pickle" - vadumangai,
where the juice is mainly brine, red chili, and a couple or
other things.
but there's also avakaya, sweet mango pickle,
mango pickle with or without oil, mango pickle with or without garlic,
shredded mango, chunk mango, different degree of ripeness,
there are literally too many to list.
so, to jason, dux, and others discussing mango or lime pickle -
which kind? what name? what recipe, what region?
the same brand (e.g. swad) will have several different kinds of mango
pickle.....
and tryska, what kind of garlic pickle?
milagai
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ducksredux: try Patak's sweet eggplant pickle.
It has hot/sweet/sour flavors.
Most non-desis like this one.
Milagai
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india has over 104 dialects (some anthropologist can correct me here).
are you saying "dialect" when you mean "language"?
One does not have to be an anthropologist to use these words
accurately.
India "officially" recognizes 18 different languages.
However, surveys (e.g.
Anthropological survey of India's People of India series in mid 1990's)
suggest there are 75 different major languages in India,
with several dialect forms within each language (some estimates
total over 1600 different dialects; some suggest ~ 800).
The Indian govt recognizes over 200 different mother tongues
(language is a politicized issue, as everything else) because of the
difficulty in recognizing where "language" leaves off and "dialect" begins....
Milagai
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ehh... interesting.
i find myself going the other way, for obvious reasons.
i can wing anything indian,
i wing pasta sauces, but would never dare to serve them to anyone
expert in italian cuisine (the elevated spice levels alone would draw protest).
chinese or thai i am (sad to say) completely at the cookbook / recipe
level, or worse still, i buy pre-made thai curry paste or szechwan sauce
and let fly....
i don't think i would ever have the confidence to do these at parties,
except with a thousand apologies. it will taste good to other indians
(again because of the spice levels and odd combinations) but nothing like real....
so, what do *you* all think it would take to gain that extra confidence?
what would a cookbook or cooking class have to have?
(maybe the cookbook authors on this board have some hints on this?)
and jason, the mushroom-cashew recipe you speak of sounds lovely.
could you please share the recipe or tell me what book it's from?
and from a quick look at your blog, are you veggie?
milagai
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Howdy!
Decided to be adventurous and buy 5 different brands of Mango pickle: Swad, Ahmed, Patak's, and two others. Have tried 3 so far and each is so incredibly salty that I can't bear to take another bite. I like salty food, but this is unreal. I threw away a ginger pickle a few weeks ago because it was way too salty. And when I ordered a mixed pickle at local restaurant it was also inedible.
So what's the secret here? Is it an acquired taste? Should I be burying a miniscule amount of it in a huge bowl of rice?
just like olives, no?
my first several times eating olives i felt the same way.
now i can eat a whole bowlful.
don't throw the pickles away, gift them to a desi friend,
or mail them to me
1. it is probably somewhat an acquired taste.
2. yes, you are not supposed to take a huge bite;
but a tiny smidgen well-buried in a mouthful of rice+yogurt,
or chapati+dal, etc.
it's proverbial in india to giggle when people "eat achar like sabzi"
i.e. eat pickle like it was a veggie dish, but they usually
do this because they like it so much: i am guilty of eating
punjabi mixed veg pickle (turnips, carrots, cauliflower in mustard
seeds and a touch of sweet and hot and salt in the spice)
just as if it was mixed veg subzi instead of mixed veg achaar.
hth
milagal
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Convenience! The key word is brought to light! (I have been accused on more than one occasion of being a slave to this word).
I'm with you on the fact that it's irritating as hell that we're too lazy to cook these days, but on the flip side (forgive me for playing a little bit of the devil's advocate) with it taking two incomes to take care of most families these days, and spare time becoming more and more scarce, it's becoming much easier to rely on conveniece foods rather than home cooked meals.
i'm one of the parents you refer to, in a two-job, double-stress,
two young kids, family.
i'm the quartermaster general, i.e. do most of the shopping and cooking.
i am very aware of food choices and the need to get kids habituated early
to healthy eating and to give them the psychological connection to good
food so that's what they'll crave when older, once they've gotten past the
adolescent rebellion (at least that's what i hope).
i home-cook BASED ON convenience foods:
e.g. i used canned beans and frozen veggies A LOT.
what convenience foods are others buying or talking about?
we love shopping the farmer's market in the summer,
but on a strict budget, and for reasons of time, process minimally.
and the convenience foods i am talking about (canned beans
and frozen veggies) fit in with my budget, taste, time,
AND health goals.....
So, I don't see the issue as "being too busy to cook so I use
convenience foods" but more as "i am too busy to do a lot of prep
so i buy healthy convenience food and cook from that".
my kids genuinely love and eat a wide range of veggies,
whether it's poriyal made from frozen green beans, or
frozen spinach in the saag-chole (using canned chickpeas) or
the cherry tomato salad straight from the farmer's market
or whatever is in the stir fry tonight......
we do our share of junk food BTW, frozen waffles or cereal for breakfast,
chips, ice cream, etc......
i'm rambling, but i'm also curious.....
milagai
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please explain "the braiser" where you made those
lovely looking potatoes?
it looks like its on the stovetop.
what is the pot made of?
or are you using some other pot for this?
and more details on braising technique and recipe please?
milagai
Hi, Miligai!
The pot is an enameled cast iron casserole, or braiser, I picked up on eBay a while ago, when Fifi hypnotised a bunch of us
into buying Le Creuset in a very informative thread about the cookware. This particular braiser is from a brief period when LC was doing art deco style, and I've never seen another like it. (That makes me wonder if it's really LC, but what the heck - I like it, and it works.) When I first started making this style of potato, I did it in a covered sauce pan and it worked fine. However, I learned this winter that braisers really and truly do work better if they're made of a massive material such as cast iron, or clay - I presume because the braiser evens out heat fluctuations, but I don't know whether anyone's really figured it out yet. I highly recommend the eGullet Culinary Institute's course, The Truth About Braising: an eGCI seminar and lab. Several of us spent the week comparing techniques, cookware and results, and the ensuing discussion taught me a lot. The link I gave you is to the introduction, but from there you can go to the various lab sessions and question and answer sessions. The Q&A and discussion threads are still open, too, so you can take the course on your own, draw conclusions and continue the discussion.I used this braiser on the stovetop of my electric stove. It could be done in the oven, but for something quick like this I find the stovetop more efficient. I scrubbed a dozen or so of the new potatoes I bought last weekend, leaving them whole. They went into the pot with 3 tbsp butter and 1/3 c. water. It's important not to use too much water, because if you do you'll have steamed potatoes with soft peels. The result is different. Simmer on low for about 20 minutes, then add a couple of cups of sliced carrots. Simmer until everything's tender, then toss all with a few tbsp. of chopped dill. I've had these stalks of dill standing in a vase in the kitchen, just for this purpose.
Why exactly the potatoes come out differently when braised, instead of steamed, I don't know. I do know that with only a small amount of water in that pot, it's pretty much evaporated by the time the potatoes are done. That leaves the potatoes with a buttery silky sauce in the bottom of the pot so that when you toss everything together it coats those tender-crunchy skins. When you bite into a potato it pops in your mouth like a grape and the buttery sauce mixes with the smooth young potato meat...oh, it's a treat! I'm not posting the recipe on RecipeGullet because it isn't mine to post, but this should give you enough to go on. Otherwise, I recommend picking up a copy of the New York Times Cookbook.
thank you so much for all that info!
milagai
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please explain "the braiser" where you made those
lovely looking potatoes?
it looks like its on the stovetop.
what is the pot made of?
or are you using some other pot for this?
and more details on braising technique and recipe please?
milagai
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Yep . . . andie wins.
Here is one that an old dotty aunt used to totally believe in. If a toad hopped into the kitchen, you had to throw out all of the butter in the fridge.
Now, why that should make any difference to the butter I haven't a clue. Not to mention why a toad would hop into a kitchen. I never found out if she ever had that happen or what the origin of the belief was. My Grandma used to say she was as nutty as a pet coon. On the scalded milk, something does happen to the taste. I learned to drink coffee in the New Orleans area when I went to college. My MIL always scalded the milk and it does taste different. Another oddity of the area. If you go to Cafe Du Monde you will notice that they pour the coffee and the scalded milk into the mugs simultaneously. They swear it makes a difference. I dunno. Maybe it does.
South Indian "by the yard" coffee also definitely uses boiled
(and boiling hot) milk. You pour the decoction, and the milk,
into your tumbler, and then go back and forth between the
tumbler and the "dubra" (don't know any English word for this)
with the stream growing longer and longer each time, until
you have a frothy well mixed drink; much sugared of course.
milagai
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spoilage...not just foods, but preparation. I like methods that subject the outside to high temperatures, like grilling things then dropping them in a marinade, or deep-frying. High water content encourages spoilage - draining/squeezing ingredients before dressing them helps a lot!
I also like seed or nut creams/pastes rather than dairy creams because they keep better.
Unpeeled hard-boiled eggs are unlikely to spoil.
having grown up in india and taking tiffin to school every
scorching day, i recall a lot of rice:
yogurt and rice
lemon rice
idlis
sandwiches (jam or cheese or cucumber)
stuffed parathas with pickle
all these were freshly made each morning (oy, our poor mothers)
and none spoilt in the window between 7 am and 1 pm......
my son starts preschool again today.
the county has Talmudically complicated rules about packing and preservation.
The food MUST be refrigerated.
It CANNOT be reheated by the teachers (OK in summer but
miserable in winter).
Solution:
we buy an insulated Thermos like container, pack it with very hot food.
This is put in an insulated carrier.
The whole contraption gets put in the fridge upon arrival
in school and taken out as is and eaten at lunch time.
The temp of the food is still warm, though not scorching....
Today's lunch (awful I know):
Maggi noodles (masala flavor) gussied up with veggies and egg drop in
the broth.
Grapes for fruit.
Milagai
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Report on my first attempt at indian cookery:
As mentioned, I started with browned cabbage and onions, from a very old madhur jaffrey book. Roughly the recipe calls for heating some whole spices in oil, adding sliced onions, cooking 3 minutes, adding the sliced cabbage, cooking an additional 30-45 minutes, meanwhile making a garlic ginger tomato paste - which is fried in oil and added to the cabbage for the last 5 minutes of cooking.
My thoughts - I was surprised that the recipe called for heating the spices first and then keeping them in the pan through the entire cooking. They didn't get bitter, but they did get awfully black during the cooking of the onion. Is this typical?
sizzling the spices in oil is tarka.
it's either done at the end and dumped over the dish (typically for dals)
or done at the beginning and other ingredients added in and cooked
(typical for sabzis).
but the spices infuse the oil when done this way and the oil in
turn permeates the dish.
the trick is to sizzle the spices without burning, then add other ingredients
and lower the heat, so that other stuff cooks but nothing burns.
milagai
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i'm not sure, but that thing about scorching the milk has, i've been told, to do with something chemical going on when milk is at near-boil. something that will prevent, to some extent, crystallization in an ice cream.
i've also heard that boiling or scalding or whatever
breaks down lactose to some extent so that makes it
easier for lactose intolerant people ...
also i've heard it does something to the proteins?
making it easier to digest?
i'd love to know whether these are facts or ficts.
milagai
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They say you'll get a cloudy stock that way, but it sure beats a can of Swanson's. Yes, it's not as clear and tastes different than a traditional stock, but it's very flavorful, fast, and homemade.
serious question: once incorporated into a finished dish,
can you really discern these differences?
milagai
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Hi Suzysushi: very sorry to hear about your daughter,
but it's heartening that others on the site have posted
encouraging stories of their experiences managing this condition.
In case you don't already know, chana dal, a popular Indian legume,
is supposed to have an extremely low glycemic index and
is excellent as part of a diet intended to manage diabetes, and
if your family likes Indian food, here is a link with a lot of
information and recipes:
http://www.mendosa.com/chanadal.html
Milagai
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I make veg stock all the time in a pc,
and freeze excess.
Don't want to fuss making any other way.
Get results that I like, I have nothing to compare
it with though....
Milagai
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are you sure your kid won't like cut up veggies?
or is there a common myth that kids won't like broccoli?
why is it considered so odd to give kids vegs?
my dd took broccoli, asparagus spears, cherry tomatoes, carrot stix,
just about any kind of veg to school.
either raw or steamed (with light seasonings) as appropriate.
ds is now doing the same. they don't share any genetic material
so either we got lucky on genetic prefences or it's upbringing
my whole family takes packed lunches because preschool
demands it, and my ps-aged older kid much prefers home cooking to
cafeteria fare.
so typical lunches:
vegetable + tofu fried rice, cherry tomatoes, yogurt cup
lemon rice, cucumber slices, yogurt cup.
rolled up chapatis (with cream cheese and some kind of veggie spread inside), some kind of sliced or steamed veggie, occasionally a cookie (though preschool REALLY discourages cookies), so often it's applesauce.
idlis, chutney, grapes, yogurt,
spinach filled theplas with similar sides as above,
veggie couscous + similar
smaller shapes of pasta with vegs in sauce, + etc.
etc.
so i guess our pattern is:
some main item, some kind of fruit or veggie cut up, and
yogurt or applesauce or similar.
often chips or murukku or something similarly crunchy,
especially for the older one whose appetite is larger.
water, (milk is provided at preschool)
we adults take larger versions of the same thing.
works for everyone, no extra or different cooking or packing
which i would strongly resist since i'm the one landed with the job.
milagai
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I can't believe no one has mentioned the English favourite: Spotted Dick...just where the heck did this name come from??? Sounds awful.
Wasn't the word "dick" pretty innocuous until the end of the 20th c?
Kind of like "gay" used to mean something else entirely?
I remember old kids books where Dick was a routine short form
for the name "Richard"
and I just finished re-reading old Nero Wolf mystery where
"private dick" is used in almost every chapter.....
So, it's not that "what were they thinking when they named it"
but "how did this word come to so drastically change its meaning"
which is another conversation entirely....
Milagai
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I'm getting a good picture of how this is going to work. I'll stay away from naan (for now). a few last simple questions:
"wet" dishes refer to dishes in which sauce plays a major role right? This isn't some ayurvedic term? (Getting the terms "hot" and "cold" straight in chinese cooking was tough)
If appetizers don't play a role, in what context are things like samosas or dosai served?
between a large decent wok or a largish castiron skillet, which would be preferable for this type of cooking?
yes: wet dishes are gravy based.
dry dishes have no gravy.
these are straightfwd descriptors, no ayurvedic terms.
samosas = snack
dosais = can be breakfast, tiffin, i.e. full meals in themselves.
youo'll need a wok AND a skillet. and a flat tawa for chapatis.
but if you are really really forced to choose then go with wok and tawa.
milagai
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here is a link for a poll among veg*ans on the topic:
http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=34282
predictably, opinions run across the board,
and not everyone thinks the same on this.
this may be hard for "meaters" to grasp
(i too am "just kidding")
milagai
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Thank you all so much!
I went yesterday for my initial foray and picked up a decent representative of the suggestions on this thread.
The dry spices were pretty straightforward, and ducksredux, I do in fact now have plenty of kalonji. No luck on the amchur nor the tamarind paste - though that was more a byproduct of my being in slightly more of a hurry than I had realized. I picked up a variety of pickles (pickle?) and am looking forward to busting into them hopefully tonight. Also picked up pappadum.
So now the next question (I hope you don't mind all these - I could read a book but I really prefer the flexibility and direct knowledge of y'all) Is there a standard structure to an Indian meal? For instance when I was learning to cook Chinese food there was a rough ratio of number of dishes to number of diners, and a logic to how dishes were chosen. Is this true with Indian dining?
Also is there a logic to when ghee is used and when oil?
Can anyone recommend a recipe for naan? My goal for friday is a complete meal with several dishes and naan, but since both my cookbooks are british the baking measurements will be off...
One last question I'd like to throw open to everyone. Are there any particular dishes I should try making which would give me insight into important techniques of Indian cookery?
For instance I am planning (from a madhur jaffrey book) on making "Bhuni Band Gobi" for my first dish, as I truly love cabbage. This looks promising as it has several techniques I'm unfamiliar with, making a "tarka", the inclusion of spices at different times for different results, and making a paste of onion tomato ginger and garlic.
Typical structure to an Indian meal:
Take a plate. In the 6 o'clock position is either rice or some roti
of whatever kind. THESE ARE NOT EATEN TOGETHER in Indian custom.
It took me forever to get accustomed to my non-Indian friends
wrapping rice into their rotis
The rice / roti takes up about the largest space for a single item.
From 9 o'clock to 3 o'clock are different sabzis and dals/meats/
raitas, relishes, etc.
The goal is to have a complete meal with protein (dal and/or meat)
sabzis (veggies) and also balance wet and dry dishes.
Your Bhuna BG would count as a sabzi (=veg side dish).
Is it dry? So at the very least you need one dal or nonveg thing
to complete the meal, and decide if you are having rice or roti.
If you want both, just have them one after another.
You can have multiple sabzis and dals of course.
Try and have a small salad type thing (a few teaspoons of finely
chopped fresh vegs, e.g. cucumber and tomato, appropriately
spiced).
You can have papad (aka pappadum, aplam etc.) for fun
also pickles.
most indian communities consider some version of dahi
(yogurt) either plain or raita-fied etc. essential to end the meal;
to cool you off, aid digestion etc.
Sweet at the end.
and if you are really doing the full monty, then end with
paan, mukhwas (mouth freshener - there are a myriad varieties) etc.
I am sure others can chip in re naan recipe (though Madhur Jaffrey's
is pretty good the one time I tried it - it's just too much labour for me).
Tarka is the one most basic Indian technique and without it you'll
really be at a loss. So it's good to master that one.
Nothing much to it - sizzle the spices in hot oil without burning them,
and dump over the dish you are making and mix well.
The spice-infused oil permeates and seasons the dish.
HTH
Milagai
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Were you adult, or did you start very young?
Did you get it right away, or was there trial and error
(funny stories please?)
Mine:
I was raised "good for nothing" in typical middle class Indian style,
as kids we were told mainly to study and housework was seen
as time-waste.
This was often a point of argument between Amma and Appa,
as Appa would order us out of the kitchen and tell us to study
or play sports, saying "fumes will make you cough, the knives
and stoves are dangerous" etc. Amma would grumble
"how come it's OK for me to stew in the kitchen, but for the three
daughters it's off limits?" etc.
So I never learnt to cook until young adult, and I left home for
college, and suddenly discovered the joys of home cooking
and I used to telephone home for uppuma recipes, and Amma used
to screech: You are paying long distance charges for upma recipe?
Rs 300 to learn to make uppuma? Are you crazy? etc.
But I finally got the hang of it....
My mother's story was even more drastic;
as her father was a senior govt official and they had
(rough estimate) 2 servants for every domestic function.
So she was in for a rude awakening after marriage.
She used to try and make from cookbooks and produce awful
messes, and my dad would patiently eat them while keeping
the cookbook propped open so he could at least feast his eyes
and imagination on the glorious pictures.
Her first dinner party, she owed many other families in Appa's regiment,
and by that time she could manage almost everything except the
non-veg.
So a khansama was arranged from the military mess.
THe party was at 7 pm and he did not show up until 3, and came
dead drunk, carrying a live chicken upside down, hanging by the feet.
He parked it on the verandah and instructed my horrified mother
to feed it a few drops of vinegar from time to time to tenderize it.
Then he disappeared and Amma was stuck with this crazy situation.
Much panic later he showed up at 6: 30, even more drunk,
and Amma disappeared. A few squawks and feathers flying later,
the chicken was perfectly cooked and on the table in time for the party....
edited to add:
Amma is now an absolutely fantastic cook, though
she still claims to dislike it and hates all housework
(I mean, who really likes to clean?)
In stark contrast, my Montessori educated kids learn "life skills"
in pre-school (ages 3 to 6) and can already slice veggies, grate
and peel things, and my now 8yo has taken to cooking very handily
and can make chapatis and all kinds of other things that still challenge me...
My father still insists on shooing them out of the kitchen and I have
to go in and rescue them. Everyone is still horrified when both kids
love to sweep and swab (jhadoo poncha) and I hear muttering behind
my back (paying so much for expensive education to do this kind of thing??)
So: how was it with others?
Milagai
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another suggestion:
take a desi friend along!
saves all the list-making / checking / deciphering / forgetting.
cuts right to the chase.
milagai
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Off the top of my head:
coriander (whole or powder)
turmeric
chili powder
black mustard seeds
garam masala (or make your own)
nutmeg
black cardamom/large cardamom/bari illachi
white poppy seeds
tej patta/Indian bay leaves
ajwain
Indian pickles
dry papad (poppadums)
block of tamarind (or the concentrate as Tryska suggests)
coconut milk
as many types of lentils as you can lay your hands on
kidney beans
stock up on almonds and/or cashew nuts (to be ground and used for thickening sauces)
raisins (again, used in sauces)
besan
fresh green chilis
fresh (NOT dried) curry leaves
coconut (fresh)
limes
mixes such as dosa mix, idli mix, rasam powder, etc. for the times when you want to eat Indian, but don't want to go to too much effort
I could probably be even more specific if you say what type of Indian food you most intend to cook. The spicing is quite different between north and south (not to mention east and west,and all points between these four).
what anzu said
also: dry red chillies
and there is a book called "indian grocery store demystified"
that should have a good list....
milagai
Things we refrigerate
in Kitchen Consumer
Posted
unless it's going to be several days and risk of rotting,
i never refrigerate:
tomatoes
mangoes
avocadoes
never refrigerate
peanut butter
milagai