kvltrede

Justin, I don't consider Gordon's to be a gin that overwhelms a drink but others may disagree. Or, you may simply not be a gin person (yet ). Yes, you must have bitters for the Pegu Club. Use only Angostura if you can't find the orange. I'm fairly new to them but it's become very, very clear to me that bitters can really make a drink. I suppose most drinks can survive w/out them but I'd skip 'em only if forced to by circumstance. As you may already know, Angostura is available at most any liquor store and probably all grocery stores too. Peychaud's, Fee's Orange and Fee's Old Fashion bitters I've only seen at the two local liquor superstores so that may take some searching on your part. I stand by Mr. Wondrich's Pegu Club recipe but I hold Mr. Kinsey and Mr. Hess in equally high esteem so by all means be sure to read the Pegu Club thread and note their preference for a less tart version. Good luck with your "homework"! Kurt

Justin, what gin did you use? Some gins are more "in your face" with their botanicals. I just had this experience with Brokers. I like Brokers a lot but I think it's going to be a Martini, Gin Rickey and G&T gin for me. How did you like the Aviation once you added the blood orange juice? That sounds pretty tasty to me. If you are interested in other possible uses for blood orange juice take a look at this recent thread. Here are a few other gin drinks that you might consider before deciding that you and gin don't get along: Corpse Reviver No. 2 (from Ted Haigh aka Dr. Cocktail) 1 oz gin 1 oz Cointreau 1 oz Lillet Blanc 1 oz fresh lemon juice 1 to 3 drops pastis (Pernod, Herbsaint, Ricard) or absinthe (according to the NYTimes Dr. C. uses Herbsaint) Shake well and strain. Garnish w/cherry. Pegu Club (David Wondrich/Esquire) 2 oz London dry gin 3/4 oz orange curaçao (or Grand Marnier) 3/4 oz lime juice dash Angostura bitters dash orange bitters Shake well with cracked ice. Strain into chilled cocktail glass. 20th Century (CocktailDB.com Shake with ice and strain 1 1/4 oz Booth's dry gin. 1/2 oz creme de cacao 1/2 oz Lillet 1/2 oz lemon juice 20th Century Cocktail (CocktailDB.com) Shake in iced cocktail shaker & strain 1 1/2 oz gin 3/4 oz creme de cacao, light 3/4 oz Lillet Blanc 3/4 oz fresh lemon juice Add lemon twist I'm a big fan of all of the above but particularly the Pegu Club. I don't recall the details of my preferred 20th Century so I printed two similar recipes from Dr. Cocktail's site. I like the one in Gary Regan's Joy of Mixology. I imagine both of the above are tasty though and are probably not too different from the J.O.M. version. Kurt

For anyone still paying attention I've decided to go with Blood Red Sky as the name of my little cocktail. I think the image of a blood red sky at dusk is a pleasant one and matches the drink quite well. I'm pleased to keep "blood" in the title but without any of the usual dark connotations. As an on-and-off U2 fan going way, way back I don't mind that association either. As I was searching cocktail websites checking on the originality of Blood Red Sky I was quite surprised to find a recipe for a cocktail at KingCocktail.com called Red Death. I'm glad to report that Dale DeGroff's version is not the Everclear punch from my college days. I can't wait to try bakerboy's sangrita. It sounds fantastic. Kurt

Well, Meyer lemons and any number of other "specialty" fruits and things remain on my list of stuff to try when I have the opportunity so I'll have to leave that question for someone else to answer. Personally, I like the idea of using the juice of two somewhat out-of-the-ordinary fruits in a cocktail. The produce store didn't have any Meyer lemons last night but I'll check again when I go back for more blood oranges. As for the name, I know you're right. Blood Oath is a little heavy for what is a darned refreshing and light cocktail. I came up with Blood Moon but it seems that blood moons are associated with October and that's not exactly prime citrus season. In doing a little more "research" I found quite a few apricot brandy drinks at DrinksMixer.com. DrinksMixer seems to define apricot brandy as the Hungarian Barack Palinka more often than not so I'm working my way through some of the 172 apricot brandy reipes they have listed. I found one called the Red Cloud. It's similar to my new cocktail and I'm trying to decide whether I want to coopt the name. How do you like the Blood Red Cloud? In this case the b.o.j. subs for the grenadine and the Mandarine Napoleon and the bitters are additional. I dunno. How about the Albany Terrace? I'd prefer to acknowledge the importance of the blood orange juice but maybe naming it after the place it was created--our condo building--is the way to go. It's not as snappy a name as those drinks named after swank cocktail lounges but it may do. How is it that naming our punches in college was so easy? Too bad I already used "Red Death" for that lovely combination of Everclear, Hawaiian Punch and, um, I forget the rest... Kurt

I purchased and tasted my very first blood oranges yesterday. What a pleasant surprise. They're wonderful and I can't wait to go back and pick up more. My primary reason for buying these was simple curiosity but I also had cocktails in mind. I was somewhat surprised to find a lack of recipes featuring blood orange juice. It seems that I had been thinking of the various threads here discussing bergamot oranges. Oh, well, I decided it wouldn't take a lot of imagination to find a suitable use for blood orange juice. While milder and a less tart than regular oranges the blood oranges are similar enough that most any recipe featuring orange juice shouldn't require too much reconfiguring to suit the blood orange juice. We started with the only recipe at CocktailDB.com featuring blood orange juice, a Bronx variation called the Blood Bronx. I liked it pretty well but my cohorts were underwhelmed. I think part of the problem was the Brokers Gin that I used. Brokers is quite potent at 94 proof but it's also pretty heavy on the botanicals. I think a less obvious gin and/or a sweetening agent of some sort would have made a better drink. I think a good Triple Sec or Grand Marnier (or Gran Gala) would have helped. A dash of some type of bitters couldn't hurt either, I imagine. With that in mind I opened up Joy of Mixology in search of a suitable orange juice drink to adapt. I found Gary Regan's Paradise Cocktail: Paradise Cocktail 1½ oz gin 3/4 oz apricot brandy ½ oz orange juice ½ oz lemon juice Shake and strain. I don't recall if Gary specified Hungarian Barack Palinka as the apricot brandy style of choice or if he meant the more common sweet style but having just picked up a bottle of Zwack's Pescetes Barack Palinka I knew that's what I was going to use. Next I switched to Gilbey's gin so as not to overpower this drink. Then I opted for only 1/2 ounce of the palinka but upped the o.j. to 3/4 ounce to account for the mildness of the blood orange juice and the less-sweet nature of the palinka. I left the lemon juice at 1/2 ounce. The result? Very, very nice. This is close enough to Gary's recipe that I think it should be called the Bloody Paradise or something along those lines. The mix of botanicals, the bite of the palinka and it's nice apricot flavor plus the mild sweetness of the b.o.j. and the tartness of the lemon juice made for a very enjoyable cocktail that will certainly be mixed up again at my house. In fact, the Bloody Paradise was so good that we decided to have one more despite our now being low on b.o.j. For my next trick I came up with this: 1½ oz gin 1/2 oz apricot brandy (barack palinka) ½ oz Mandarin Napoleon ½ oz blood orange juice ½ oz lemon juice 1 dash each of Peychaud’s and Fee’s Old Fashioned bitters Shake and strain It was fantastic. Very similar to the Bloody Paradise but the cognac in the Mandarin Napoleon brought a nice undertone. Also, I chose the M.N. over Gran Gala due to the mandarin orange having a similarly mild & sweet profile as the blood orange. It worked as well as I had hoped. The bitters also worked the magic that bitters usually do. I'm not sure I could detect the O.F. bitters but the Peychaud's made it's presence known in a most welcome way. I think the drink is sufficiently different from Gary's Paradise that it deserves it's own name. I'm thinking of calling it the Blood Oath. The name doesn't appear to be taken yet. My only concern is that something called a Blood Oath should probably have rum in it. Of course, "blood" doesn't have to be in the drink's name but I think the b.o.j. is important enough that it should be noted. Thoughts? Kurt

Sam, that's a nice price on the Cointreau. I think you should probably head on back there before whoever mispriced it wises up. Here in Chi the 750 ml is $32 and the 1L is $37 while the 750 ml's of MB Triple Sec, Apry, Blackberry and Anisette are all $21. The Charbay Blood Orange and other flavors are, hold on to your hat, $20. The "regular" Charbay is $27. Kurt

I hate to quibble but this is the internet and geeks quibble. It was Uma Thurman's character who ordered the $5 milkshake. Thankfully, I'm not such a geek that I remember what beverage Travolta's character ordered. Oh, wait, was it a cherry coke? Damn... How 'bout Greta Garbo's first words in a "talkie" (Anna Christie): "Gimme a whiskey, ginger ale on the side. And don't be stingy, baby." Kurt

It's more then just the "category", it's also the quality. Generic Triple Sec and Cointreau provide very different character to cocktails. A sidecar with Triple Sec is just a cocktail, with Cointreau, it's devine. To a limited extent, I lump curaçao, triple sec, Cointreau, and Grand Marnier in the same bucket. A sweet orange flavored liqueur. If you don't have one, use the other. Yes, it will make a difference, but frankly I find the difference between Cointreau and Triple Sec to be greater then that between Cointreau and Grand Marnier. -Robert Well, as far as quality and proof are concerned I think we can lump Cointreau and Grand Marnier together as being head and shoulders above the lesser orange-flavored liqueurs but there is a notable difference between the two: Cointreau has a neutral spirit base while Grand Marnier has a cognac base. The type of oranges used differs within each classification but it seems to me that it's the liqueur's base that has the greater impact on flavor. Does the general eGullet consensus differ from this assessment? Cocktaildb's Cointreau entry states that Cointreau has a brandy base but brandy isn't mentioned on the bottle or at the Cointreau website. I suppose that Cointreau may be made with unaged brandy--which would explain its lack of color--but that strikes me as unlikely. Anyone know for sure? If your liqueur has a brandy or cognac base don't you make that an obvious selling point? As for curacao, the Marie Brizard website shows that their orange curacao has a cognac base but I don't think that the Hiram Walker I have at home does. Neither cognac nor brandy are mentioned on the HW Curacao bottle pictured at Cocktaildb. I'm pretty sure this is the same label as is on the bottle I have at home. Is curacao so loosely defined that some fall in the Cointreau-style column and others in the Grand Marnier-style column? If so, despite the whole Triple Sec/Curacao area being somewhat grey, I think we have to classify Cointreau, Triple Sec and any non-Cognac/Brandy Curacaos together and lump Grand Marnier, Gran Gala, the Cognac/Brandy Curacaos (like the Marie Brizard version) and maybe Mandarin Napoleon together. Of course, that said, I'd use Grand Marnier over a lesser triple sec even if it was technically "incorrect" according to the recipe. I've compared a Gran Gala Sidecar with a Hiram Walker Sidecar and the Gran Gala Sidecar was better even if it was "wrong". Back to the Pegu Club, I can only assume that Mr. Wondrich lists orange curacao (or a sub. of Grand Marnier) because some (finer?) curacaos are brandy- or cognac-based. Dave? Then again, Paul Harrington calls the Pegu Club the "Pegu Cocktail" at his website and he specifies Cointreau. . . which takes us back to square one, I suppose. Anyone have any idea which liqueur was more likely to be available in Burma during the decades prior to Burmese independence? Note: Mr. H's ratio is 3:1:1. Pegu Cocktail 1 1/2 ounces gin 1/2 ounce Cointreau 1/2 ounce lime juice 2 dashes Angostura bitters Stir with cracked ice; strain into chilled cocktail glass. He writes: ...the Pegu makes for a pungent drink that stimulates the senses and soothes the soul. Although we literally can't stomach more that one or two of these acerbic cocktails, it's just as well. The Pegu's composition tends to make us saucy, so, for the sake of those around us, we never overindulge. Instead, we let this drink organize our thoughts into smart, laconic streams that seem to flow as smoothly as chants from the temples in the jungle... So, he likes 'em tart. I'm with Mr. H and Mr. W. Kurt

Binny's is the other biggie. The two stores on my side of town are quite large and with impressive selections of both wine and spirits. I find Binny's is usually, but not always, a buck or four higher than Sam's but the staff's are equally as friendly and knowledgable and I like 'em both (or all three as it were). Binny's has quite a few other locations as well. Kurt

I don't care for tonic myself. Here are two possible G'n'T replacements you may want to consider: Gin Rickey 1½ oz Gin Juice of ½ Lime Carbonated Water 1 Lime wedge Pour juice of lime and gin into a highball glass over ice cubes. Fill with carbonated water and stir. Add the wedge of lime and serve. Obviously, there's plenty of lime juice in the drink so a lime wedge garnish is merely for show and can be skipped. If I make a highball-sized drink I usually juice an entire lime and toss one of the spent lime shells into the glass. I think a lemon or lime seltzer works better than plain. Beefeater works very, very well in this drink. I normally used crushed ice. Some folks find the Gin Rickey to be boring and it can be if the proportions aren't right. I'm at work so I can't tell you the size of the glass that works best for me but I can tell you that a highball glass is to big for the above recipe and I haven't taken the time to figure out the highball proportions so I can't help there either. My guess is that the glass I normally use for these, and which returns excellent results, is probably 8-10 oz. If you don't mind a little more work, Dr. Cocktail's Bitter Lemon Cooler is also exceptionally refreshing. Bitter Lemon Cooler 1½ oz dry vermouth 1 oz gin 1/4 oz grenadine 1/4 oz fresh lemon juice bitter lemon soda Shake & strain into collins glass over crushed ice. Add bitter lemon soda and lemon twist. As for the vodka vs. gin argument I have only come around to the joys of gin in the last year or two. For some reason the juniper scent now smells like the most refreshing thing in the world. It no longer makes me think of distilled pine sap and I enjoy it immensely. That said, I don't have any problem with a Vodka Martini made with Belevedere, Van Gogh, Turi, Fris, Svedka, Chopin and any number of other vodkas. Olives, please. Right now, though, my ideal Martini is a 5:1 Plymouth gin/ Noilly Prat Martini, shaken within an inch of it's life and garnished with a large lemon twist. I like the cloudiness and ice chips in a shaken martian. Kurt

That sounds particularly delicious. However, a quick trip to the websites of the two biggest liquor stores in town doesn't turn up Trimbach Kirschwasser. A bit of googling, though, turned up the Gary Regan column on the Rose. He mentions a few possible substitutes: "other great renditions of this spirit are available from companies such as Etter, a Swiss entity, the Clear Creek Distillery in Oregon, and St. George Spirits in Alameda, which renders a kirsch under its Aqua Perfecta label". That said, I was taken aback when I saw the price of the Etter. Is the Trimbach priced similarly? My ignorance of the price of premium eaux de vie and eaux de vie in general aside, is there a less expensive bottling that might be suitable in a Rose? Is Cherry Heering or Maraschino a suitable substitution or are they too sweet? This is what's available at the "big two" in Chicago: Dekuyper Kirschwasser, Cordial (USA) 750ml $13.99/Bottle Etter "Kirsch", Cordial (Swizterland) 750ml $52.99/Bottle Maraska Kirsch, Cordial (Croatia) 750ml $16.99/Bottle Schladerer "Edel-Kirsch" Fruit (Cordial), Germany 750ml $21.99/Bottle Schladerer "Kirsch", Fruit (Cordial) Cordial (Germany) 750ml $34.99/Bottle Weis Kirsch Fruit Brandy, Germany 750ml $23.99/Bottle Kammer Black Forest Kirschwasser 750ML $39.99/btl Miscault Kirsch 750ML $37.99 Anybody familiar with any of the more modestly priced offerings? Anybody know where to find Trimbach in Chicago? Also, how do you Kirsch-drinkers use it? The Cocktaildb turns up quite a few recipes featuring Kirsch. Any favorites? Thanks. Kurt

You can get Vya at Sam's Wine & Spirits, near North and Clybourn... Yes. Vya is definitely available at Sam's. The website only shows the dry but I purchased both the sweet and dry there a couple months back. $18/750 ml. I haven't looked for Vya at Binny's but both the dry and sweet are listed at their website at $20 each. I would be surprised if you couldn't find it at all of their many Chi-area locations. If you aren't near a Binny's just pick up the Yellow Pages and call the fancy-schmanciest liquor store near you. My favorite Chi-area store, Foremost on Ashland, has great prices and some real surprises in it's inventory but it doesn't carry esoteric items like super premium vermouth or calvados. Finding Vya at your average corner liquor store seems quite unlikely. You might be able to find Lillet though. It's not vermouth, exactly, but it's close enough that some folks substitute it for vermouth. It might make a nice reverse sort-of Martini or you could make a reverse Vesper with, say 2-2.5 oz Lillet Blanc, 1 oz gin and .5 oz vodka. Something in that ballpark might work out nicely. Kurt

I've lived in Chi for six years but spent the previous 30-some in WI. I've never heard of a Brandy Old-Fashioned but I suppose it may exist in WI (or elsewhere). I think your friend was confusing which classic cocktail WI has twisted. It's the Manhattans in WI that are often made with brandy. A "Brandy Man" is the default Manhattan in a solid chunk of WI. I don't know the origins of this oddity but I'm pleased to note that my old man doesn't cotton to that nonsense. He's a CC Perfect Manhattan guy. I find it kinda weird that his preferred garnish is an olive but I haven't tried that so I shouldn't knock it. That said, I simply can't imagine mixing the lovely briny flavor of olives with whiskey. Vodka and gin, sure, but whiskey? Anyhoo, just thought I'd defend Wisconsin. We may be provinicial but we aren't complete rubes. As for a good Old-Fashioned in Chi, there's a nice Italian restaurant on Clark near Wrigley Field called Tuscany that makes a nice one. They do it with the muddled orange slice. That's not my preference but it's a fine example of it's type. They aren't offended if you ask them to hold the fruit salad. Kurt

Finally did the Cointreau vs. Marie Brizard Sidecar taste-off last weekend. While our test was barely scientific--one 2:1:1 Sidecar of each head-to-head--each taster felt the Cointreau Sidecars were noticably but not significantly better than the MB Sidecars. Call us no-palate hicks or call me cheap but I doubt I'll be splurging on Cointreau any time soon. Then again, now that I'm thinking about it, maybe next time we'll go head-to-head with 3:2:1 Sidecars... Hmmm. Maybe the lesser amount of lemon juice will better showcase the difference between Cointreau and MB. A sidenote: the best surprise of the evening was the Pegu Club. Using Mr. Wondrich's recipe (below) it was the favorite drink of the night. The drink list included the two Sidecars (both very well liked) and an Aviation that needed some tweaking but the Pegu Club won the evening on points in a close contest with the Cointreau Sidecar. Kurt Pegu Club 2 oz London dry gin 3/4 oz orange curaçao (or Grand Marnier) 3/4 oz lime juice dash Angostura bitters dash orange bitters Shake well with cracked ice. Strain into chilled cocktail glass.

As a Chicagoan I was hoping somebody would respond to your post. Most of the places I go I'm a little gunshy when it comes to ordering cocktails other than a Martini. Either they're shot'n'beer joints or restaurants where I don't have a chance to talk to the bartender. Also, I don't spend much time in the ritzier joints downtown where, I imagine, ordering a Sidecar won't get you a blank stare. Anyhoo, if you have a chance, the only place I am confident the barstaff can make you just about anything you might want is The Matchbox. It's a teeny, tiny joint a little North and a little West of downtown. I don't get there often enough. Oh, there's always the Signature Lounge on the 96th floor of the Hancock Bldg. A touch pricey but considering the size of the drinks and the view it isn't any more expensive than joints far closer to street level. Here's a link to those two and three others I haven't tried. Kurt

Anyone? Kurt

Picked up a bottle of the Daron Fine calvados last night and mixed up a Calvados Sidecar with the Marie Brizard triple sec I picked up a while ago. I went with 2:1:1 and it was delish. My pal Des thought so too. Since it was a "school night" we stopped at one but we both look forward to tweaking the ratio and also to comparing a Marie Brizard sidecar glass to glass against a Cointreau sidecar. I'm thinking that a smidge less lemon juice and a smidge more triple sec will lead to my ideal Calvados Sidecar but who knows. My first thought was that my Margarita ratio of 3:2:1 might be the way to go. Further research must be done. It's a tough job but someone has to do it. Kurt

Anybody else had Velho Barreiro? I think I saw a bottle on close-out at the liqour store last night when I was picking up a bottle of calvados (Note: I went for the Daron Fine at $20). I didn't remember the brand name from previous eGullet discussions so I passed but, as the queneau's review of the VB is positive, I'm going to try and get back the store before someone else grabs that last bottle. I'm curious, though, if anyone else has had the VB and, if so, if you would be so kind as to post your thoughts. Thanks. Kurt

Hmmmm.... I just toss mine in the garbage. Never thought about "safe displosal" Since by this time all they are is a sealed metal canister they should be safe for simple disposal as a spent arasol can, but you wouldn't want to toss them in a burn barrel!-Robert ← Thanks very much, Robert. I appreciate your help. As for the disposal of the chargers, I'm sure you're right. Mine are standard issue iSI. I'll take a closer look at the box to see if I can decipher any deeper meaning in the somewhat vague warning. I'll report back if I learn anything. Thanks again. Kurt

Here's a silly question: once one has charged the soda siphon is the charger removed immediately? I assume so but google didn't turn up a definitive answer. I'm also assuming that once the charger has been tightened to the siphon sufficiently so that it creates bubbles in the water that it's work is done. Yes? Also, the box of chargers mentions something about proper disposal of the spent charger. What do you do with your spent chargers? Please forgive the ignorance behind these questions. I've never seen a siphon used in real life. If it weren't for the Three Stooges and other old movies I might not even know they exist. Thanks much. Kurt

I'm assuming that the Jade Liquor's Nouvelle-Orleans is the appropriate selection if one was planning on using it for Sazerac's (at least on occasion). Is this correct? If it's possible to put into words, can anyone who has tried both please give a brief idea of the differences between the Nouvelle-Orleans and the Jade Vert Suisse 65? Also, do any of the usual suspects (Herbsaint, Pernod, Ricard, Absente) really come close in flavor to a "good" absinthe? Thanks. Kurt

Okay, the early returns are in. I mixed up two Sidecars last week with E & J VSOP brandy. Both were 2 : 1 : 1. The first included the Hiram Walker orange curacao I had on hand. I subbed Gran Gala in the second. Knowing that both liqueurs are quite sweet I didn't bother to sugar the rim of the glass. Both were very tasty. The first was more interesting than the second but my initial reaction was that I liked the second one more. As the second was sweeter and more of a "one note" cocktail I find this to be somewhat odd considering I usually prefer "complex" to "simple" or "sweet". Hmmm. Further testing is a must. No Calvados or Cointreau yet. I'll report back when I've had a chance to try those out. Kurt

Dang. I knew that. Boy, do I feel silly. Thanks very much everyone. Kurt

Thanks again, Katie! My second and third favorite liquor stores have websites and here's what turned up: Coeur de Lion Pommeau Calvados, France 750ml $17.99/Bottle Coeur Lion Selection Calvados 750ML $24.99/btl Coeur de Lion Reserve Calvados, France 750ml $29.99/Bottle Coeur Lion Calvados Fine 750ML $34.99/btl Coeur de Lion "VSOP" Calvados 750ml $49.99/Bottle Do you know if one of these is the "at Rouge" under a different name? The Coeur de Lion homepage wasn't helpful. The photos aren't too clear but it appears the labels of the "Fine", the "Reserve" and the "VSOP" also say "Calvados du Pays d'Auge". My high school French is well beyond it's expiration date. Is "d'Auge" French for "at rouge"? One of the shops has the Pere Magliore Fine (750ml) at $27.99/Bottle. They also have a Boulard calvados but at $102 something tells me that's not the one you were referring to. I'm thinking the P.Magliore might be the best deal of the bunch. Apparently Chicago prices aren't significantly different from PA prices. I'll be sure to post again once I've experimented a bit. Thanks again. Kurt

Thanks, Katie! I assume you mean the "regular" E&J but I see that my second-favorite local shop has an E&J "VSOP" for only a little more cash. Would the "VSOP" be worth the extra buck? How about the "XO" for only a few more dollars? At $9, $10 and $18 for 750ml I'd probably mix any of these with Kool-Aid if asked. They all fit nicely in my booze budget even if I upgrade my triple sec to Cointreau. If you have a Calvados recommendation I'd appreciate that too. Thanks again. Kurt