Varmint

Let's get ready to rumble!!!!! The use of the expression "fried chicken throwdown" has already been used by another worthy food-based organization, so I politely request something a bit more novel and creative for this competition. And I'm pretty good at getting grease off the tennis court!

Marlene, if you have self-rising flour, try that with your biscuits, drop the baking powder, but keep the soda. That flour usually is made with a softer wheat, which is better for biscuits.

Rolling out the dough shouldn't be the source of the problem, either. Give it another try, and I think you'll be pleased. Got any collards growing up there???

No, no, no, Dave. Biscuits are absolutely required to sop up the remnants of the gravy. If you're doing a chicken gravy, then you'll want rice. If it's cream gravy, potatoes. But either way, you gotta have the biscuits!

Wow, I feel honored that your first post on eGullet focused on my kitchen repairs. On that note, I'll likely lock this thread fairly soon and start a new one, once I meet with the contractors next week to start hammering out the details. That way, we can talk about the process from beginning to end. Daddy-A (Arne Salvesen) is helping out with the kitchen design process and has already provided me with some scale drawings. I'm going to work on the hard core measurements over the weekend and we'll post the "final" drawings on the new thread. Arne is a top-notch certified kitchen designer and I'm hoping he'll offer his thoughts throughout the process. You'll soon see how important a kitchen designer can be with this type of project.

The biscuit recipe you used should have worked, but you may have overworked the dough. Was it fairly wet? Was your baking powder fresh? Let's get this figured out. I didn't read Brooks' fried chicken recipe, but what type of fat are you using? There's no doubt that Crisco is the best for fried chicken, as long as you're going to eat it right away. If not, a peanut or vegetable oil will suffice. Are you making pan gravy or cream gravy? I'd go with the latter along with some mashed potatoes. That's heaven!

I'd say that the skin should be a category that has multiple facets: Crispiness, flavor, "delicacy" (it's easy to make it crunchy, but the skin should still be skin, not breading). You want to have an element of flavor in there. There's another standard of the South that you could consider: how good it is when eaten cold the next day. That's a sure sign of quality chicken. What other type of help do you need at this late hour, Marlene? I'm sorry I haven't been involved in this thread, but I'll try to make it up to you!!!

The kitchen's a "go." It's time to move onto the next step. Details to follow.

That's why I've re-drawn my plans over 20 times, and re-measured 10 of those. I've made some more changes this weekend. I've decided I need a second dishwasher, so I'll stick an ultra-quiet Bosch under the eating bar. I'me moving the wine fridge into the pantry, seeing it's an older appliance anyhow. I'm eliminating that bookshelf by the eating bar and just making the cabinets to the right of the SubZeros a desk/bookshelf combo. It's amazing how helpful it is to talk this through on a near-daily basis with everyone and anyone I know. We've been able to sort out a lot of problems, and it's made me a ton more comfortable with the plans. I'm getting stain samples for the cabinetry this week. I'll meet with the contractor again next week to re-measure and estimate costs once again. I need to hit some tile shops, maybe on Thursday. I've got to see what's available!

Minor change of plans, as I need to move the SubZeros 14" away from the wall, as that area currently houses ductwork for the air intake from the living room. Ugh. Anyhow, we can build a box around that for the lower portion and build bookshelves or other cabinetry up from there. I need to think it through. On the other side of the SubZeros, we still want a small set of shelves forming a mini-desk. This gives us space to put notepads for phone messages, as this is the primary location for the phone. This isn't entirely a done deal, but I need to think it through. Our family room and dining room that are both open to the kitchen have some beautiful custom made cabinets in black walnut. It has a natural finish, so the wood isn't totally dark -- almost cherry like. Instead of trying to match that color, I've decided to go with a light-colored maple for the cabinets, and then use darker colors with the countertop and flooring. I've been looking at some porcelain slate-like tiles for the flooring. The counter may be a combination of slab granite and granite tiles in this color: Click here for the photo. I need to think about this a bit more.

I started the sink to be as large as humanly possible, knowing that I'd likely pare it back a bit. I want two large bowls. I've been looking at some granite countertops on eBay of all places. You can get 8 or 9 foot slabs with a full bullnose for less than $400 each. If not that, granite tile is my likely choice. I can't say enough good things right now about Cabinetry Direct and its owner, Ken Ables. For less than the price you'd pay for mid-line cabinets from Home Depot that are sold in fixed sizes (and have particle board boxes), you can get 100% wood with top of the line Blum hardware. I'm getting some color samples sent to me, but I'm likely to go with maple, and the cost to me, delivered, will be less than 9 grand. Plus, if you need a 32-1/2 inch cabinet, they'll make it for you. They'll make anything you need, and because I have some special needs, that's ideal.

Seeing I was craving a Patsy's pie last night, and explaining how wonderful it is to Mrs. Varmint, I need only ask, why would anyone want anything less than a full pie???

This site (http://cabinetrydirect.com/) offers custom built, all wood cabinets at a very reasonable price. I estimate that if I were to get their high end oak cabinets, it'll cost me about 7 to 8 thousand dollars (plus shipping), which is probably 2-3 times what you'd pay at Ikea, but is all wood. For their "mid-level" all wood cabinets, the cost would be about 20% less, but they use Blum hardware at this level, which is what Daddy-A told me I had to get. Play around with this site, as it's quite fun!

Here's a revised floor plan, with dimensions (if you can see them!): Here is my current spec sheet as well: KITCHEN RENOVATION SPECS – DECEMBER 12, 2004 1. DEMOLITION AND SHEETROCK • Remove all existing cabinets. o Cooktop o Compactor (will keep to sell) o Grill o Wall ovens o Bar Sink + plumbing o Kitchen sink + plumbing o Keep existing disposal for new prep sink • Remove wall oven casing and coat closet o Load Bearing Wall?? • Remove existing flooring and baseboards • Tear down existing door and frame to pantry o Build new doorway extended into kitchen 2. PLUMBING AND GAS • Run gas line to range location • Run plumbing for 2 new sink locations • Run plumbing for dishwasher • Plumbing and Drainage for new ice maker location 3. ELECTRICAL • Wiring for range and hood (Existing 220?) • Wiring for wall oven (Existing 220 from grill?) • Ice maker • Wine Fridge • Dishwasher • Outlets • Either side of range (2) • In cabinet for KitchenAid Mixer • Under countertops near along eating bar (2-3) • Along new long counter (3-4) • In microwave cabinet • In bookshelf for phone • Any baseboard outlets? • Ceiling Lighting – 3 Zones • Eating Bar  Prepare wiring around I-beam for lighting  Sconce? • Work area  Recessed? • Hallway  Recessed? • Light switches • Dimmers • Reduce number of switches  Eating Bar  Work Area  Hallway by fridge  Separate switch for above sink? • Under cabinet lighting • Switches?? • Move circuit breaker and switches to opposite side of wall. (Cost??) • Add wiring for new disposals in both sinks • Add new disposal switches for all sinks • Electrical for new Subzero locations • Phone line at midsection of bookshelf • Light in new closet? • Relocate switch for pantry light (outside) 4. HVAC -- DUCTWORK • Close off ductwork from current cooktop downdraft location. • Reconfigure ductwork near window • Reconfigure ductwork under current sink cabinet • Ductwork for new ventilation hood 5. CABINETS AND CARPENTRY • Install new window • Base Cabinets beneath window o Sink o Dishwasher o Flatware drawer o Trash o Microwave Cabinet • Upper cabinet over long counter o Build around windows • “L” shaped base cabinet near window o 30” Oven o Small marble slab to sit on near short window • Move SubZeros • Base cabinets for 36” range and eating bar o Sink o Wine Fridge o Ice Maker o Load bearing beam • Build and install housing around I-beams • Install tile countertops o Add marble pieces • Build and install bookshelf/phone area at end of SubZeros • Build new closet • Build new doorway for pantry • Build trap door for recycling? • Need to determine cabinet configuration (drawers, lazy susans, etc.) 6. INSTALLATION • Cut and install ductwork for hood • Install backsplash • Install hood • Install range • Install wall oven • Install microwave • Install dishwasher • Install sinks and disposals • Install lighting • Install wine fridge • Install ice maker 7. FLOORING • Pour concrete (wiring, ducts, plumbing) • Tint or tiles? • Repair flooring from change in eating bar area 8. FOLLOW-UP (Homeowner to do) • Replace Sub-Zero panels

I'd prefer to avoid vinyl, if at all possible. I'm not immovable on it, but it'll take a lot of work to convince me to head down that path. We could go for something such as bamboo, but I know little about it other than it can be very, very hard. If I'm going to build cabinets, I'd like the doors to be wood with a natural color. The rest of the box can be whatever! Ultimately, it'll come down to function, design, and then cost. I like light-colored wood, but we have a lot of custom-made oak cabinetry in the living and dining rooms, and we probably need to avoid clashing with that. I do want the roll-out shelves. I've got to figure where I'm going to put everything. I'll start doing an inventory of all my cooking "stuff", and try to determine where it'd go with the new design. Again, my pantry will be growing by about 20 square feet. Thanks for all your guidance.

Lower countertops for baking: 36" high countertops are perfect for my height. Any lower and I'd strain my back. And Mrs. Varmint hasn't kneaded a thing in her life -- well, maybe my back, but that's another story . . . . I need to start looking for tiles. I'd love to hear about flooring. No, I don't want cracks. Yes, I want it to be easy to clean and cheap. I don't care that much about wood vs. tile vs. concrete. I've heard about "faux slate", but I need to see it. Other than flooring, cabinets are my big issue, as I know what I like, but I don't know the best manufacturer. I like sleek, simple contemporary designs: slab doors with retrained handles. Our house is contemporarily-styled and unique, and so the kitchen should follow suit. Guidance on the cabinets will also be very helpful. I might be able to get my contractor to build the cabinets I want. In the end, it might be just as cost-effective, seeing I don't need any in-lays or other decorative materials. He's done it before and is primarily a trim carpenter. What do y'all think? I guess Blum is what I need to get.

Two words: Self Cleaning ← Don't they make self cleaning gas ovens? ← Yes, but they're about the same price. GE does not make one in its Monogram line. I'm going with GE because it's made by DCS, yet it has the GE stability behind it.

It's not that the 48" wouldn't fit, it just leaves precious little space in the corner near the sink. Plus, the cost of the 48" range and 48" hood is more than a 36" range, a 36" hood, and a 30" oven!

Two words: Self Cleaning

I will be going there this weekend and will post a report.

I just noticed that the oven in the range is 27", so I may end up going with a 30". No big deal, regardless.

Does a half sheet pan fit into a 27" oven? I have half sheet pans that just fit into a 30" oven, but I know ovens vary considerable depending upon self cleaning insulation widths etc. What is the cleanability of stained concrete? I have seen stampcrete floors in some restaurants that are uneven surfaces and they always seem to have bits of food stuck in the dips and angles. However, I am assuming that stained concrete is a smoother surface and therefore very easy to clean. What is the stain factor of concrete? If you or the kids drop mustard on it and it doesn't get cleaned right away will you end up with a permanent stain? Perhaps this adds to the character of the floor? ← I currently have two 27" ovens, and a large cookie sheet fits in them. With the large oven in the range, I can go with the 27" as my "second", baking oven. I haven't ruled out a 30" oven, but I'm not sure if the incremental cost is justifiable. I'm still researching the concrete angle. It'll be fairly smooth, with just enough grit to avoid me busting my ass! We do seal it, to avoid the stain problems. I'd love to hear others' thoughts about concrete.

This drawing has lost some semblance of scale, but the counter won't be as offset from the SubZeros as it appears. I do understand your concern!! We'll need the post, and, in fact, it'll create a great design element, as we'll likely cover it with tile, too! We've already got lots of existing marble to go in the baking area, so we're fine for now. My contractor can cut the existing pieces to size. Yeah!

I met with the contractor last week, and it looks as if this project is a "go." I've made a slight change in the plans, and this also makes a lot of sense. First, we're bringing the pantry all the way out to the end of the wall that's beside the range. Second, I'm moving the wine refrigerator and ice maker underneath the eating bar. That consolidates some plumbing in that area, and it makes it easier to get drinks for guests. With the expanded pantry, I'll go with the 36 inch range, which has a BIG oven. This is what I'm getting: GE Monogram 36" Dual Fuel Range. Over by the driveway windows, near my baking/pastry station, I'll add a 27" convection oven: GE Monogram 27" Oven. It'll be easy to install in this location, as we're already wired for 220. I'm likely to go with stained concrete as my flooring. It's easy, I can put down commercial rubber mats if necessary for my legs, but I'm really focusing on durability and ease of use (and low cost!). Regardless, once we remove the existing tile, we're going to have to pour concrete anyway, so this'll be the simplest solution. The counters will be mostly tile. We'll need to look and see what's available, but our contractor is a tiling genius. We'll go with large tiles with minimum grout.

Even though I'll have more pantry space, I need the cabinets by the driveway, as I'll have very little effective cabinet space as a result of this renovation. Because of the sink, icemaker, dishwasher and wine fridge, the lower cabinet space across from the Sub-Zeros is almost non-existant (except for silverware drawers, for example. Plus, the cabinets by the driveway will be lower only, as we have huge windows along that side. Yes, that would give me even more reason to make that a breakfast nook in theory, but again, I do like some cabinets in my kitchen. Yeah, the little jag the eating counter takes is not ideal, but we may be at the mercy of the structural elements of the house. We'll see about that. As far as countertop is concerned, I'm likely to use tile for the entire cooking area and eating counter. I like tile, particularly because I can put red-hot pans on it. I don't anticipate having bright red tile anymore, but something colorful nonetheless. Green or blue, for example. The counter on the short side of the driveway cabinets will be a piece of white marble we already have -- that's my pastry area. The longer side of that "L" can be almost anything. Even cheap stuff. But I'm somewhat partial to stainless. This is open for discussion, but this area will be a busy prep spot when we have guests. I'm not a fan of built in wood countertops. I don't want to worry about it and like the mobility of my cutting boards. Yes, this is open, but this kitchen isn't nearly as large as this drawing appears. Yes, I may be able to put in some sort of island in the open space, but that can come later. I've been cramped for so long, that it'll be a great change to be wide open.