kevin

My money is on JKWB, I have eatem at both, and worked at one of them, and I have got to go with JK. ^

I understand. The place certainly aspires but I think many people familiar with the restaurant would say that it certainly lost some cred when Chef Clarmo (spelling?) left to be more of a corporate chef for the group. But I think it is accurate to say that the restaurant itself still presents itself to be a fine dining establishment and certainly the surroundings give it that sort of feel. I enjoy the fact that the group identified the poor reception of mis"Steakfrites" in the public and opted to reposition the restaurant. A good example of why they are the premier restaurant group in the GTO regardless of the faults with the corporate culture of the company.

Vox I want your supplier because my stuff is not working correctly! How do you figure that Auberge du Pommier does not/is not/tries not to be fine dining because if that pretentious place (maybe it is only the staff and there alumni that think it is ) is not fine dining then I might as well retire with the knowledge that I know nothing about food and the dining experience. Sorry for my curtness.

It would seem to me that he is doing it for probably two reasons. One is that the kitchen needs a little work, the place is almost 10 years old. It would be a cooks best anniversary gift. His investors have got to be happy. Contrary to most restaurant investors and non-cook owners the equipment does not last forever, it does not always function as it should and like a car, continual repair costs do add up. The second is that if he is an investor, then he can determine that the investment is necessary. Maybe this is a sign that he is putting show business aside for now, or he has learned to balance his dual identity (Chef / TV GUY) and is ready to take a more active role in the operation. What can the other investors say when the track record is this good. What is this not a good investment. I dont' know, I am probably wrong but it seems plausible.

You can find Szechuan peppercorns anywhere in Chinatown. There are none of the same restrictions on importing them like in the States that currently exists. I can't remember the reason behind this but I remember reading about it on this site and reading about it in one of the SF newspapers.

I would definitely suggest Nickolau for just about any small items. They will special order items if you know what it is that you want and they also have connections to have these small items custom amde, this is obviosly at a premium because you are paying for the initial design and machining but if you have the money they are pretty good at delivering what you need. They know what is in those stacks of catalogues on their shelves so if it already exists they will know. I am not sure whether their level of service is different for civilians, but I do know that they have always been fair, honest and extremely knowledgeable in helping me even when I was a snot-nosed apprentice who knew nothing and walked in there all wide eyed and stupid.

Thanks for the input. I am not even sure what Australian food is in many ways. I have researched it, but am wondering, what would constitute an Aussie menu. This is for a media event and VIP cocktail party. Are Macadamain nuts, lamb & sweet potato cornbread, rabbit terrine with water biscuits, and Crayfish (I can't get yabbies in time) Consomme salad rolls seem Australian. I don't know and I am running out of time. HELP, anyone.

Strangely enough it is my understanding that the majority of Canadian prime is bought up by the large "steak" houses frequented by our Southern neighbours. As a result of a week dollar, they are better able to pre-purchase lots of cattle ensuring a steady supply, but in terms of not only the consumer but as well the Canadian restaurant operator we are unable to compete. Think as well, Copper River Salmon, once the Japanese discovered it they increased the price beyond what our domestic market couls support. That is certainly what is so special about Canadian Prime being available to the consumer market. There really is very little left for us CDN's, let alone the consumer public. Supply of exceptional beef is difficult enough, I have a hard enough time keeping a supply of dry-aged AAA organic beef in my kitchen, let alone one that has been dry aged for 6 to 8 weeks . I pretty much by all of this cut (as is ther tenderloin, and rib-eye purchased exclusively by restaurants. I also buy the off cuts, shank and heart of beef and the occassional pork belly, pig's head, ears, snouts and whatever innards they are legally allowed to sell me, to be honest I rarely get to sell the really cool stuff heads, kidneys, sweetbreads, testicles and brains. Those of you interested, I will forgo the culinary limitations of the restaurant I operate, of course I can do it in the restaurants ethnicity if requested, the only problem is sourcing the goodies, please request! (PLEASE START NEW THREAD, I WOULD BUT DO NOt KNOW HOW) The real problem is that as long as the likes of Car(K)gILL, "CON"agra and the other corporate food manufacturers are involved in food production to fuel industrial needs, and fast food is an industry then their influence will be felt. Econimies of scale is the name and the consumer is unimportant. (Strangely enough my beef supplier holds out product to sell to freezer customers, can you believe that, they screw me to take care of their loyal long-term customers, what principles how can you not respect it. These corporations have had their influence trickle down to the fine dining world, high turnover, forced employment, restaurant econo-geek [not eco] who knows more about numbers than the spiritual and communal pleasure of food and the personal enrichment and reward of achieving this target. These are the people that seem to prosper, yet there are to many examples of skille BY GOD< WHAT A RANT< EGULLET READERS< I AM SORRY< Too drunk too prood read, too proud to erase (For ill or will) "When the going get weird the weird turn pro" "Why be a fly on the wall, when you can be a fly in the ointment"

Eric, the stuff you are refering to is "choo chee / choo chii / chu chii" curry. The spelling is optional as long as the phonetics are accurate.

Hurray, once again we are ten to twenty years behind major dining cities. Some places are still trying to get over the Cal-Ital hangover of the 80's. Congradulations you learned your craft at that time, and you made some money owning a place at this time, but by God, evolve or die. It is true in any industry and probably more so in the foodservice industry. If TO could find an iventive chef that could keep his costs in line then maybe a owner will allow Toronto to develop a trend of its own, or get on the band wagon of an emerging trend before it is ten years old and no longer appropriate. As an aside, do you think "molecular gastronomy" would fly in Toronto. It would obviously be prohibitively expensive, but if it were possible do you think TO could deal with / support this trend that has already emerged but is nowhere to be found here in TO, foams and such gimmicks no longer count because like stacked food too many TO chefs/owners/customers did not really understand it beyond its aesthetic appeal. Does TO have the financial support to be involved in these movements to such an extent where we may actually be able to have some one being a part of / innovator to this movement. Is there any one in TO with the vision, backing and culinary skill to make it happen, can the egulleters nominate the person to carry the mantra and lead the way. Without the cook there is no food.

The multi-million dollar black hole is not really a trend in dining, except to say that these venues produce food. Can you really call a bad investment a trend. Sounds like a trend that only Toronto could embrace wholeheartedly. That is our next great food service trend that we want to be known for, to expand and multiply like a bad infection, the multi-million dollar over designed, the food is an after thought, the dining experience is an after thought, but isn't that a lovely over-designed over leveraged, can't possibly work sort of investment. Toronto the land of bad investment opportunities because we are chasing some obscure perceived trend that is thought to be the demon seed of the next great culinary Godzilla to rampage through the industry crushing all in its path. Just like are former mayor, spend all your time promoting yourself to be something in appaearnace only and completely lacking in depth and substance. Toronto likes design more so than actual food, Montreal and Vancouver have a food culture and Toronto has a design and "trend" culture that is built on these concepts with non of the foundation to create such a structure. There are exceptions of course, McEwan would never forget about the dining experience in designing something and OB works hard to achieve this ideal, but it is funny how TO has so many "Restraunteurs" that fail to try and create there empires built on the fundamentals that have made these local and many other restaurant groups so successful. Trends are created by people that are aware of the substance of what they have to offer and after researching the feasibility of the offering implement it and stay true to the nature of it. JK with the small plate offerings is the emerging trend. How long before the ownership of Toronto restaurants realize that it is the substance and not the design that spells out the opportunity for success. The design complements and makes possible the direction but it is not the product that is for sale. TO will come around to this in another few years after the rest of the world has embraced it whole- heartedly. Until then we can flog a dead horse like poutine (Brad Long had it on 360's menu 8 years ago, isn't that special) and tell ourselves how cutting edge we are and be impressed with it. (Editor's Note: I am not bitter, but simply bored. Create quality dining experiences and from that we may be able to see trends emerge, but as long as you chase trends the fickle tastes of the public will constantly shift and as usual we will be left behind.)

Toronto is a terrible place to see trends evolving because we tend to be somewhat behind the times. "Poutine" trend, sure it is new to Toronto, but as long as Montreal/Quebec are a part of Canada then poutine is a heritage component of Canadiana foodstuffs. Sure the folks in Toronto are clamouring up to try these newly re-found classics but my God if poutine is the best trend this city can wraps its forks around then we really are a geriatric, culinary wasteland that fails to live up to the undeserved moniker of "World-class city" Like the city itself, food and living wise, yes we tend to be neat, orderly and a fairly well kept city but this does not make for world class status. How can we be emerging any trends that haven't been flogged like the proverbial meat eater at the annual PETA BBq, if our ownership tend towards the safe tried and true formulas. "I know what the people want and it is anyone of these formulaic restaurants, the trendoids will love it, the critics will gush and if the people don't flock I will eat that 80's Cal-Ital, 90's Bad fusion you just created to accomodate the flocking masses that cannot wait to come up to the trough and suckle at the teet of unoriginal, been there eaten that slock that the cities owners seem to want. You want to see trends in this city then tell the owners to take the shackles off, can we see a trend created by an unknown. Probably not, the owner would be unwilling to take a risk with an unproven chef, like there hasn't been enough 60% guys with lots of press, that supposedly create the next big thing. Trends that city needs are probably quite simple but not immediately recognizable, more growers like Barretta Farms (Organic Meats) and David Cohlmeyer, fish deliveries more than once a week (I know there are the odd exceptions) and then the guest that can appreciate these excellent ingredients simply prepared to illustrate their true character and nuance. As long as owners look to the short term, feeding those fickle, trendy, "what's the name of your designer, are those real" kind of people, sure they are great for the initial rush and to make our "senior" food writers feel rather self-conscious, but where is the substance. "Sell the steak not the sizzle", important words but ones that are rarely used in the design of a successful restaurant. Toronto goes for trends, that is unquestioned but we rarely follow the trends when they are current. A recent article seemed rather disparaging in its regard for the new tapas style dining. Unfortunately, and to demonstrate the short-sightedness, this is probably the single largest shift in the food service industry, forget the Atkins crap (and all those other diets, we are in the enjoyment business, create food for people to be transported by and enjoy), simply because people at first do not understand it , in the article they talked about a tasting menu that was "tapas-style" saying the small portions are a misunderstood demonstration of this style of dining. I can't remember the individual doughnuts name but I believe he/she was referring to Claudio's tasting menu at Senses and besides the Spanish by way of Latin-American roots by way of parental circumstance more than national identity, his tasting menu's are truly that, tasting menu's that are meant to be small to demonstrate his vision of cuisine. Tapas should be more like those Bin restaurants out in Vancouver, how can we even comprehend a good trend in this city when we can't even differentiate styles of dining that have been in vogue in truly worl-class cities for decades. (Sorry for my Bill Hick's meets a drunk angry Julia Child tirade, it felt really good. I could go on about how the shift towards Japanese style dining helped vreate the foundation for this shift in dining culture in North America, but I need to mix another drink and the maid has gone to bed. Before I sleep I will pray that we also adopt the siesta along with the Tapas)

Via Allegro gets its outstanding media presence (from Chatto) because they suck up to him every time he is in. It is definitely not based on the food, with possibly the exception of the steaks which are Sterling beef. But even so, quality meats can be found in many restaurants in the GTA that also possess more well rounded menu with consistency across the board. Just goes to show you that its not the substance of a restaurant that matters only the right friends.

I think Thai food at this point in the publics mind (perception) Thai food is where Chinese was long ago, in Toronto, that would be 30 years, when yes most of the food was dumbed down to accomodate the Western taste. Certainly, gapi and nam pla raa are a little strong for many peoples taste, they can be toned down and add the requsite depth to the dish without being a predominant flavour. Strangely, it is all the coconut that many Thai people I speak with are "tired" of, that and the extreme spiciness. But the food can still feature these flavours in a sliding scale to accomodate the pallette of timid Westerners. To me the difficulty in trying to get the public to look beyond coconut, peanuts, phad thai and fresh spring rolls, for that matter any spring roll, is the single greatest problem confronting Thai food. There is not enough awareness of the regional differences of Thai cuisine, the variation of tastes and techniques employed throughout the country or the skill and complexity of the palace cooking. When phad thai, or any noodle dish for that matter, is not served during formal dinner hours and not every sauce employed is coconut based and the menus reflect that of a fine dining restaurant not some 100 item "Wok-jockey" place. In terms of locating herbs, in Toronto I can get most anything, I can't seem to be able to get sweet mountain coriander (Sorry, I can't find the Thai name) but as far as the most used of Thai herbs, they should be readily available in NYC.

It is probably popular because too many people have no idea what good, or authentic Thai food is supposed to taste like. The more I learn about Thai cuisine the more aware I am of how low the bar is for this food. The publics perception of what Thai food is contributes to this problem as well. In Toronto, we have around 120 Thai restaurants and out of that thewre are maybe 5 good restaurants and only one of these is even close to being a truly "fine" dining experience.

Soory for the typo, I meant less ponce. Dyslexic typing.

Is he opening a new restaurant, or simply expanding his existing one. Is it Nobu Next Door, same place without the reservations, or will it be more like DB Cafe or Incognico, same perfection lets ponce.

Or the problem could be fear. There seems to be this sort of fear of inventiveness in cooking in Toronto. Trying to create a "trend" restaurant is really different than trying to create a really good restaurnat. A common theme running through many of Torontos better sustained restaurant ventures are those that have the chef as part owner. This gives them the creative opportunity they want without some owner asking for caesar salad, rissotos and pastas and all the other trademarks of an owner driven restaurant that Toronto at times can be drowning in. Vancouver has the great products and French Canada has its culinary traditions. What is the difference in Toronto, hard to say. Owners are owners but I guess they just breed them differently elsewhere. And I can agree with J. Kates and the rest of the critics that too often cooks over reach there ability, and by God can some places produce some badly conceptualized and executed dishes, but at the same time I think they sometimes miss the idea of objectivity and meeting expectations. Not every dining experience is to be a night out at Avalon or Susur. Perfection can be a fleeting thing, enjoying a meal because it is prepared with care is probably a better way to look at it. Is the meal meant to be an exercise like at Perigee or is it meant to be so relaxed it can be painful to some to wait like at JK's new place. (another one of her favourites, by God there everywhere, it just seems that none of them are young) Both meals will be utimately very enjoyable it is just a matter of expectation. One of the best meals I have ever eaten was at St. John's in London, service was smooth and everything else, but by God the food was flat on the plate and didn't have any unnecessary garnish to make it soooo Art Culinaire, the place would go broke in less than six months in Toronto, but would thrive beyond belief probably in Montreal and Vancouver. Could it be because our food critics would slaughter the place with the exception of Richler who is from Montreal and grew up eating the good parts at an early age. How do you re-invent a culinary scene any ideas? PS, J. Kates, sorry if I offended but you do make me nuts with your reviews sometimes, but then again when I lived in England I never missed your reviews. So Cheers.

It is rather funny that someone should create such a thread because when it comes to venomous spurge for this woman I beleive that I am the king. I have read her for years believing her to be the most legitimate of food writers especially here in TO. My God, the more I learn about fooed the more I realize that her opinion is just that and at the end of the day her opinion of food amounts to not vey little. It is the placing of this relic on some sort of culinary pedestal that has kept TO dining behind of the progression and stature of Montreal and Vancouver. No one is challenged because our most prominent food writers have their head so trapped in the sphincter of a selected collection of cooks that made there names back in the Cal/Ital and ConFusion days when mint jelly beans and clear consommes (that is the way they are supposed to be) were considered high-end and the epitamy of culinary skill. From what I read she still is trapped in this time warp, the botox will not help and your golden era has turned to tarnish. Without getting into some sort of bad "English"-style urinate your name in the snow bank" public call out I must admit that my idea of PR was to have this woman thrown out of the restaurant I work at because I feel she lacks the knowledge and palette to judge what myself and my staff are able to execute.I guess when the in ability to do is usurped by the ability to critize then we will always remain the poor little disregarded, ugly sister of Vancouver and Montreal. Why would Ducasse come here to be judged by some half rate,GB grad, camp running travesty of some pefrceiceved culinarily improtanance when he can go to Montreal and vicariously compete with the best our country has to offer.

Lesley, I think you missed my point, it is the opportunity for the cooks to work in such establishments. What established chef would want to work there? Hopefully none, but for cooks it is a great opportunity. And as for your having worked over "there" did you earn a pay check or do a stage. And did they know you were a writer. Try Europe when you are a cook, different expectation, different treatment. And as for the French cook issue, I would rather have an Englishman and that has nothing to do with me being an Anglophone it is simply my opinion after having spent a few years in England and Ireland earning a living.

Lesley C, I think that you miss the point about working for someone such as a Ducasse. Who cares if you are another body in the brigade, the opportunity to handle ingredients of the quality these restaurants use, to learn how to handle them in the way that these people do. Great cooking is all about great ingredients and technique. That is something that cannot be learned in too many kitchens. It is the opportunity for cooks/chefs to be exposed to this sort of enviroment that pushes the culinary boundaries in our (Canada's) cities. World class experiemce without having to go to Europe for similar experience and none of the abuse that you need to put up with as a foreigner.

Did it work intellectually for you because you found all the courses to be very good, which obviously will skew your perception, when food is good (great) sometimes, what does it matter what order it was presented in. I guess I am a bit old school in that to me a tasting menu should follow along classical lines whether it is in the French or Japanese progression of flavours and cooking techniques. I have spoken to people that have eaten there, they all cook for a living, they did not like the way in which the meal flowed. They for the most part enjoyed the dishes they were served but for them the meals did not work because of the way the courses came to the table. Ferran Adria places great emphasis on the flow and pace of his tasting menus and with his style he certainly has greater leeway in terms of "playing" with tastes, textures and techniques. I can't help but think this was as much a way that Susur could gain press and notoriety as much as it is an intellectual approach to the tasting menu.

The issue of consistency is very subjective, particularly to an establishment such as Susur's, because he does do this French/Asian fusion some of the compositions may not be to everyone's tastes. The issue for a chef doing such food is whether the food is as he/she hoped it would be, when doing a tasting menu and particularly the reverse one that he does, do the flavours of the dishes progress in the manner that the chef wishes it to, if it does it is correct. Regardless of whether the customer gets it. I personally do not like it because it detracts from the enjoyment of wine, and I somewhat think it is "gimmicky", why else would no one try an emulate it. In relation to the Michelin star issue, from my experience (working in as well as eating in) the first star is a "food" star the levels of service, wine lists, facilities and all the rest are not as important as they are in a 2 and 3 star. There is an expected level of professionalism, but it is not regarded the same as those places that aspire to 2nd and 3rd stars. Looking at what D. Thompson has achieved at Nahm would lead me to believe that Susur could realistically get a star, the question is would he be willing to risk his little Utopia that he has created for himself here in Toronto to go to a New York or London where he would become just another talented chef in a much deeper talent pool. I would not bother in his position why risk what you have, greed and ego are two very destructive characteristics for a chef. He doesn't strike me as someone that demonstrates much of either.

The blue spotted sea urchin are found in the coastal waters around Thailand. The reason that Japapnese restaurants bring in their sea urchin from elsewhere probably is the result of the superior quality of sea urchins from cold waters, such as those found of the east and west coast of Canada.

Now we're talking. I remember a Thai "ceviche" using lime juice and fish sauce, etc. That does not exactly work in Canada in January, but your suggestions certainly got me thinking. Thank-you for your help.