robyn
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Posts posted by robyn
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I realize Dieter Muller is part of an older generation of chefs (he's almost as old as I am
) - but I think his food has kept up with the times - at least in terms of more classically oriented cuisine. I didn't go to his restaurant - and leave saying "boy - this food is so old fashioned - so 80's - compared to what we had at Vitrum" (or what we later had at Vendome).About the only thing I found to be somewhat old-fashioned (in a good way) was the amazingly impressive cheese cart (you don't see many like that these days). I wish the plumbing at the Grandhotel Schloss Bensberg had kept up with the times as much as Chef Muller's cooking
.I guess another possibility is that a lot of the food in these higher end restaurants in Germany is somewhat old fashioned compared to what is happening in other countries in Europe. I don't get to Europe very often (last time was London in 2004) - so I really don't have good grounds for comparison. And - since I don't get to eat food of this caliber very often - I'm not bored. I hope to continue to eat meals like this for many years to come. Robyn
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The New German Cuisine Restaurants:
1. Vendome
2. Amador
3. Aqua
4. Soel'ring Hof
5. Vitrum
6. 44
7. Facil
Deiter Müller is a chef with a world class restaurant, but I would hardley call his food "new".
I didn't find the food at Vitrum and Vendome all that different in terms of style from Dieter Muller's. None is what I'd call cutting edge (no ipods or nitrogen) - but they certainly aren't really old fashioned either. More or less classical with some new twists. FWIW - it's a style of cooking I like a lot. Robyn
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Maybe I got us off on the wrong foot by using words like "capitalism." I guess the bottom line is that, when I visit Europe, the service attitude and feel is entirely different than in the USA. This occurs at restaurants large and small, grand and informal. Don't you experience the same thing?
For the most part - yes. I think the service in Europe tends to be more professional. By which I mean that most of the service people are doing their work as a profession. Our server at Per Se - despite all I've read about how the staff is trained - seemed more like an out of work actor than a professional server. He was perfectly competent to serve 3 people the same number of courses at the same time. But - if recall correctly - each person at the table had to have the same type of dinner in terms of numbers of courses. And I specifically recall that my husband was very dissatisfied with his wine suggestions. Of course - serving different numbers of courses to different diners at Per Se is now a moot point since you can only choose between 2 menus with the same number of courses (one is vegetarian - one isn't).
We didn't have similar experiences on this last trip to Europe. If my husband wanted the 6 course menu - and I wanted 3 a la carte courses - no problem (although I recall that at GR RHR in London - everyone at the table had to order the tasting menu to get the tasting menu). At Vitrum - my husband had six courses - and I had 3. Although at some point in the meal - the server saw I was sampling some of my husband's dishes. When he served him a dish that he said couldn't easily be sampled - involving a quail egg - he brought me out one for myself. IOW - I found the service more user-friendly - and less mechanical.
Certainly the wine service in Europe has been much better than that we've found in the US. Keeping in mind that I don't drink wine for the most part - and that even when I do - we are almost always talking about pairing glasses with dishes. Perhaps the wines available at Per Se and JG are terrific - but I wouldn't know that from what we were served. Note that since there are thousands and thousand of wines - and we are only familiar with about 20 - we usually rely on a server's recommendations concerning what to have. Although Germany is somewhat lopsided in terms of its wine production - most is white - the pairings suggested by our servers were excellent (most were German whites - but when my husband needed a bigger red - the pairing was French). When we did what we usually do in Europe - go with our server's recommendations - the wines at Per Se were mediocre - and those at JG were miserable.
So although one cannot say the US is 100% one way - and Europe is 100% the other - I pretty much agree with you. Robyn
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A quick beer report. Keep in mind that I don't drink beer - and am just reporting on what my husband's reactions were. He liked the wheat beer in Berlin a lot more than he likes wheat beers in the US. Wasn't his favorite - but he developed a real taste for it. Munich was a problem. Perhaps the local beers in the beer gardens and other places are great - but they tend to be served in 1 liter mugs. An enormous amount of beer - and not an amount he usually likes to consume.
His absolute favorite was the Kolsch in Cologne - which he described as a refreshing but nicely hoppy beer (his first love is hoppy beers - and it didn't hurt that when we were in Cologne - it was hot). Those .2 liter glasses are great. He could have 1 - or 4
. Once he had a taste - it was all he would drink in Cologne. One of the more traditional places we went to have it was Malzmuehle - a brewery/restaurant. Another traditional place was a small brew house in the town of Bergisch Gladbach.We've learned that this beer is sold here in the US in bottles. We've also been told it doesn't travel well. We'll buy some this weekend and see for ourselves. Robyn
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Actually - when we looked at the Michelin Guide's symbols - there wasn't one for a mosque - just one for churches - and one for synagogues (guess they think that anything that isn't a church is a synagogue
). I think it's somewhat behind the times in terms of looking at contemporary western Europe. Robyn -
Robyn, if you had to pick one favorite dish from your trip, what would it have been?
Really isn't fair to ask me to compare food at 3 star Michelin restaurants with street food (we had terrific grilled wurst at the Carnival of Cultures in Berlin). But I have to say the parfait of langoustines at Vendome - which was a small part of a larger composition dish (it was my husband's dish - and he knew how much I'd love it so he gave it to me - he's a sweetheart
).I have to add that my husband is a beer drinker - and that his favorite beer was the local beer of Cologne - Kolsch.
Overall - our favorite city was Berlin - our favorite hotel was in Munich - and our favorite food was in Cologne. So we have something to remember about every place we visited. Robyn
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On the issue of dining early, a little while back I started a topic about the joys of dining early. Among other things, I said:I like to eat dinner early. For me, the best time to eat dinner is virtually the second the restaurant opens for dinner...
Quite a few people agreed with the sentiment, came out of the closet as aficionados of the early bird special and gave additional justifications.
The voting in that thread was far from unanimous
. But I do agree that people have many different dining preferences. Whether based on metabolism - work schedules - family schedules - or simply personal likes and dislikes.What I object to is restaurants telling me I have to dine at 5:30 or 10:30 because I'm not enough of a big shot to dine at the hour I care to eat (which is in the middle - when most people care to eat). That simply isn't a problem in most single seating restaurants (except perhaps in countries like Spain - where - if you arrive at 9 pm - you'll be alone in the dining room with another tourist couple from Germany). Robyn
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It might be a bit easier to get a reservation there than it was 3 years ago. But only a bit. I mean, just call the restaurant and try booking a table for a random night less than two months away. You might get lucky, but you probably won't.FWIW - now that Per Se has been open for about 3 years - is it easy to get a reservation? Or do you still have to do that speed dial thing exactly X days in advance at exactly Y o'clock to get a 5:30 reservation? In other words - do the multiple seatings really increase access for the average diner?Per Se isn't the only New York restaurant like this, though it's the best known example. Recently, the g/f and I visited Blue Hill at Stone Barns. Like Per Se, they accept reservations starting at 10:00 a.m., two months to the day in advance. I called at around 11:00, and the only times they could offer me were 5:30 and 9:45. I took 5:30.
For big "occasion" meals like that, I generally eat very little for breakfast and lunch, so I'm just fine with eating at 5:30. Granted, if the book were wide open, I'd choose a later time, but 5:30 doesn't really bother me.
The only times I can handle dinner at 5:30 is when I still have jet lag from traveling at least 2 time zones west. I had no trouble eating a complete sushi meal in Tokyo at 7 *AM* the day after we arrived
. I think it's a biological clock thing. Some people are better than others in terms of adjusting to different sleep rhythms - eating rhythms - whatever. My body is pretty inflexible (I've been home from Europe for 5 days now and my internal clock still hasn't reset completely). I am never hungry before noon - and when I try to force myself to eat an early meal so I can dine early - it never works out very well. But everyone is different.I agree with FG about really late dining. I can't get to sleep if I've had a really late large dinner. So if you put a gun to my head and asked me choose between eating at 5:30 and eating at 10:30 - I'd pick 5:30.
In terms of reservations at busy high end restaurants (the kind you have to book months in advance) - I've found it easier to make international reservations by email than by the phone method at home in the US. I guess if you're in the US - the restaurants expect you to use the phone (and the speed dial). There is no similar expectation when dealing with restaurants thousands of miles away. And the restaurants will even bend the rules about reservations X days in advance if you seem like a reasonable person - and aren't insisting on a table on a weekend at 8 (and are willing to dine on Tuesday - Wednesday - at lunch - etc. - I agree with FG that dining early in the week is always best if you're trying to book a busy high end restaurant). Using a hotel concierge is very useful when it is impossible to communicate directly with a restaurant (as it is - for example - at most places in Japan).
As for all the talk about business and capitalism - a restaurant can't stay in business unless it makes a profit or some other entity/activity/person is subsidizing it. That is why - IMO - a 3 star restaurant like L'Esperance (in a large town in France) closed. I think that the way the restaurant business is these days - the better restaurants are increasingly tied to larger corporate ventures. Which is why so many of the better places are now found in hotels (e.g., 8 of the 9 Michelin starred restaurants in Berlin are in hotels). I used to think hotel restaurants were a joke - but - more or more - they are the places where I'm finding the best food. I'm not sure about the relationship between Per Se and the TWC and the relationships the other restaurants have with the building - but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some kind of subsidy involved because the restaurants lend cache to the building.
Also - if you look at things from the chef's point of view - a relationship with an entity like a hotel frees the chef to a considerable degree from a lot of business concerns. He is free to be a chef. I don't think that Thomas Kellerman at the RC in Berlin - who's a pretty young guy - could do what he's doing - trying to go from 1 star to 2 - in the absence of considerable financial support from the hotel. So - if you asked me to look in my crystal ball - I'd say that the small chef owned/operated high end restaurant will be an increasingly endangered species.
Doesn't bother me - because I don't mind walking 50 steps to take the hotel elevator to a lovely room after an excellent meal (as opposed to taking a cab or train halfway across a city). And - I suspect - increasingly - diners like me who didn't mind the relatively remote restaurant with rooms when a 3 star meal for 2 cost $125 and the rooms with 1960 vintage plumbing cost perhaps $100 or less are more resistant to the experience when the meal costs well over $500 - the room is now over $300 - and the plumbing still belongs in an antique store. Robyn
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When I travel 3 or 5 or 13 thousand miles - just about nothing is last minute. From hotel and restaurant reservations - to theater tickets - to booking guides I found at a very early age that traveling long distance with no reservations kind of sucks (you are always settling for second or third or fourth best from what you'd really like to be doing).
As a person who travels on discretionary vacations - I find the event that usually locks in my dates is getting the flights I want on FF miles - so trips are usually booked 6-11 months in advance. No reason not to make all the other reservations far in advance too. Of course - if one has a last minute trip for any variety of reasons (ranging from business to family problems) - the rules of the game change.
As for dining at the last minute - we didn't have any problems booking 1 star Michelin restaurants in large cities a day or two in advance on weekdays. You only get into problems booking the 3 stars (any day of the week). Robyn
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Now this really doesn't have anything to do with food in a strict sense. But it does have to do with the red Michelin guide - the "food bible". So I thought people here might be interested. Because if you can't get some things right - maybe you can't get other things right.
I bought a red Michelin guide to Germany before we went there (green guide too). Used it mostly for restaurants. But - one day - I used a local small city map in the red guide since the city wasn't in my green guide.
Now I don't have to tell anyone about the history of Germany. But this map had a Jewish star on it - which - according to Michelin - represents a synagogue (a cross represents a church). I was very intrigued - because I'm Jewish (my husband - who isn't Jewish - wasn't so intrigued - it was pretty hot that day). I had to see one of the few synagogues left in a small city in Germany. So we marched through the small city - actually it was about 3/4 mile each way - to see the synagogue. And when we got there - to my surprise - there was no synagogue. What it was was a mosque in a Turkish neighborhood. There was a small Turkish food store next door - and we had a good laugh about representing a mosque in a guidebook with a Jewish star.
Anyway - if Michelin can't tell the difference between a mosque and a synagogue - can we trust it in terms of anything else? Food for thought. Robyn
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OK - I will take your word for it that people who are younger than my living/late parents and in-laws really enjoy eating at 5:30. Even my father (89) hated dining at 5-6 when he moved to a senior independent living facility after my mother died - but - in the end - he got used to it. Perhaps it's a family trait I inherited
.As for doing everything when one travels - the older I get - the slower I travel. And the less willing I am to put up with BS - which includes not only dining at ungodly hours - but waiting in interminable lines - or dealing with huge crowds. We were unlucky to hit Cologne during a major festival - Kirchentag - which is a biannual religious gathering in Germany which happened to be in Cologne this year. 150,000 people who basically took over the city - and made normal tourism almost impossible. We spent one day in Cologne - and then opted to spend our second day in the area in a smaller city (much more pleasant).
But - like you said - it is all a matter of personal preference. Although sometimes I think travelers do things just to say they've done them - as opposed to actually enjoying their experiences. Robyn
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I hope your dinner is at Tantris. This is where New German Cuisine began, and still going strong.
We didn't get to Tantris. We had a full dinner at Mark's - the restaurant in our hotel - the Mandarin Oriental. One Michelin star. Not quite as good as our meals in Berlin - but definitely worth 1 Michelin star. The service was outstanding - like it was throughout the hotel. The MO is a small personal hotel - fewer than 100 rooms. By the time we were there for 12 hours - everyone knew all our likes and dislikes. Second best service we've ever had anywhere (first was Four Seasons in Tokyo).
The other two nights we dined at more modest traditional restaurants. One in the countryside with a friend we met here - another in the heart of Munich. Both offered fine simple food - and excellent beer. And we had great company during our trip to the countryside
.Then it was on to Cologne. Where we had the highlight dining of our trip. Funny how our trip worked out. Our favorite city was Berlin - the best hotel was in Munich - and the best dining was in Cologne. A perfect trip
.We stayed at the Grandhotel Schloss Bensberg. I have written up our hotels extensively in the luxury hotels section of Flyer Talk - a more appropriate place to discuss hotels. But bottom line was no matter how grand the Lerbach and Grandhotel Schloss Bensberg seem - they are - at least in my mind - restaurants with rooms. The restaurants are destination restaurants - but the hotels are not destination hotels. You stay at the hotels to dine in the restaurants. And - since both are owned by the same company - Althoff - you can get complimentary car service from one hotel to the other to dine at the restaurants. Both hotels are convenient to Cologne by train - about 25 minutes - but who wants to take a train at 11 pm after a long wonderful meal. So if you dine here - stay at one of the hotels.
Note that both hotels have reasonably priced packages which include rooms and a fixed menu dining experience. We didn't buy these packages - because we wanted flexibility in terms of our dining - but they seem like a decent way to enjoy the restaurants.
Dining at both of these restaurants reminded me why it's important to go to Europe at least once every couple of years. Dining at 3 star restaurants in Europe is usually an exceptional experience - and these restaurants did not disappoint. I am sometimes wary of a restaurant like Dieter Muller - which has had 3 Michelin stars for years - because I know Michelin is slow to take away stars after a restaurant has started to go downhill. But whatever Dieter Muller did to earn his 3 stars back when - he still deserves them. The food is contemporary - the setting is lovely (a greenhouse type place - lots of glass - where - when the windows are open on a spring night - you overlook a beautiful garden). And Joachim Wissler - from Vendome - certainly deserved the 3rd Michelin star he earned a few years ago (note that he was named chef of the year in Germany in 2005).
I am not a taker of pictures in high end restaurants. Doesn't seem right. Not to mention that we were the only non-Germans dining in these restaurants both nights. The patrons were mostly people like us - more or less middle age - except for some guys with younger women - and mostl were content simply to enjoy delicious food (cameras would have been way out of place). Paired with luscious local wines for the most part (80% of all German wine production is white - unless you need a big red - which will most likely be French - the German wines are excellent). And perfect service.
Of the two - my favorite was Dieter Muller - and my husband's was Vendome. But it was close. Perhaps I was influenced by the room at Dieter Muller - and the cheese cart (best I've even seen - even in France). And my husband was influenced by the fabulous parfait of langoustines in Vendome. But then I had the Bresse pigeon at Vendome - and that was wonderful. And my husband had dishes with yummy offal throwaways at Dieter Muller. Anyway - you get the idea. Each is terrific. And eating at both is better
.A Michelin 3 star restaurant is suppoed to be worth a trip - and both of these restaurants were. So if you are anywhere in the neighborhood - go. Cologne has a lot in addition to these restaurants. A grand cathedral (one of the best in Europe) - best collection of pop art I've ever seen (Museum Ludwig) - and the beer my husband enjoyed most in Germany (Kolsch). Cologne is now easy to get to from the US because Continental flies non-stop from Newark.
Small note about the language. A lot of Germans - particularly in high end restaurants and hotels - speak perfect English. So do a lot of business people. But a lot of Germans speak little or no English (do you remember your high school French?). It's nice to learn some before you visit. If nothing else - it's a sign of respect for a country and the people who live there. My husband uses Pimsleur tapes to learn a language when we travel - and they're pretty good for learning the basics. German isn't easy - but he said it was easier than Japanese
. Robyn -
...if you dine at Per Se today - you are limited to 1 of 2 fixed $250 tasting menus. Plus liquor - tax and 20% tip.
Um... There is no need to tip 20% at Per Se. It is "service included."
Mea culpa. Service was not included when we dined there. But the large fixed price menu was about $150 (if I recall correctly) - and there was an extensive semi a la carte menu too (the kind of menu where you get about 5 courses - and have multiple choices in each category). Robyn
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I agree with Fat Guy - it's all economics.
I'm sure if Alain Ducasse opened a restaurant in Berlin (for example), with a smaller population and a culture of later dining it would be financial suicide to have 2 sittings (Plus I am sure the ground rent is much lower so)
The financial situation is that at the top end of dining, if they didn't turn tables they would have to increase prices accordingly. I would rather have the chance to eat at such restaurants twice, maybe in a slightly more compressed time than I would choose, than only be able to afford to go once.
Berlin is actually the second largest city in the EU (city has a population of about 3.5 million and the metro area has a population of about 5 million). Robyn
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That's a false dichotomy. Capitalism favors good service. Just try getting good service in a non-capitalist restaurant. Good luck with that. All the restaurants with Michelin stars everywhere in the world operate under principles of capitalism. The issue isn't capitalism versus service, it's how to serve your market. The markets in the US and Europe are simply different.
When Per Se opened, it had one sitting. So did Alain Ducasse at the Essex House -- a restaurant operated by the chef who operates more Michelin-starred restaurants than I can keep track of. But, eventually, both went over to the 1.5 sitting model, where about half the tables in the restaurant (the early and late reservations) are re-seated and the other half (the ones with reservations in the middle of the evening) are not.
Why? Because that's what the New York market demanded...
Just curious. Are there really a whole lot of New Yorkers beating down the door to eat at Per Se at 5:30 so they can catch a show? My impression reading posts from certain members here is that the reservation process is still such a hassle that they don't want to deal with it to eat there whether or not they're going to a show.
And just personally - I don't think dining at a 3 star Michelin restaurant is something most people squeeze in before or after something else. It's an evening. Although I'm sure there is a super rarified class of people for whom it's just another meal. Robyn
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A lot of points have been discussed here. I'll try to give my thoughts on some of them.
First - I think the maitre d' who told me the story - and perhaps it was apocryphal - did it to make a point. Simply that he thought patrons of a world class restaurant all deserve world class treatment - and that multiple seatings which extend dining into abnormally early and late hours aren't compatible with world class treatment. I agree with him - but your mileage may vary.
FWIW - now that Per Se has been open for about 3 years - is it easy to get a reservation? Or do you still have to do that speed dial thing exactly X days in advance at exactly Y o'clock to get a 5:30 reservation? In other words - do the multiple seatings really increase access for the average diner?
Note that the restaurant this maitre d' works at is open from 7 to 11 for dinner - that's it. A single seating. Same at the other 3 star restaurant we dined at. So no one is ever going to have dinner in an empty restaurant.
Also - remember that this gentlemen wasn't the person who ordered the wine. His companion did. On this trip - they also dined at Masa - JG - and other places I forget. So the companion apparently has a lot of money - and isn't shy about throwing it around to make a point or amuse himself. After hearing today about the Hamptons dispute between 2 very rich people regarding the width of a shared beach access path - it's clear he wouldn't be the first or last rich person to use money this way to get what he wanted.
Now I can't say that our meal at Per Se was particularly rushed - but it wasn't slow either. We had one of those miserable 5:30 reservations - and we were out on the street by 8 or so. Although I enjoyed the food at Per Se - I did not enjoy dining at 5:30 and won't do so again at any restaurant unless I have bad jet lag.
But this issue goes beyond Per Se. There are certainly high end restaurants that give people the bum's rush - and they aren't all in the US (although many are). We had dinner at one highly regarded restaurant in Chicago where the service was so fast we would have been out of the place in an hour had we not told them to slow down. And - after almost 2 hours - we were told in no uncertain terms that if we wanted coffee and after dinner drinks - we would have to take them at the bar. In other words - we were kicked out of our table. This restauarant was later cited in a WSJ article about the worst high end restaurants in the US in terms of trying to turn over tables too many times in a night.
But - like I said - this doesn't happen only in the US. If you look at the Gordon Ramsay RHR website - it says it reserves the right to limit your dinner to 2 hours. Which is why we ate lunch there. At any restaurant which is not a single seating restaurant - this is simply a risk you take if you are dining early. On the other hand - if you are dining late - you may wind up being seated well after the time of your scheduled reservation if the party before you is allowed to linger too long.
On my part - I don't get to town often
. And - when I do - and am spending a large amount of money on a meal - I want to eat dinner at dinner time - and spend as much or as little time as I care to spend enjoying my meal. So I try to stick with single seating restaurants. Do they cost more than multiple seating restaurants? I don't know. It's hard for me to compare since the costs of doing business vary from country to country. And even when I'm dealing with the same city - like comparing ADNY and Per Se - I'm talking about meals I ate years apart (2001 and 2004). And now ADNY is closed and Per Se is a lot more expensive than it was when I dined there.In any event - although it is comparing apples and oranges - if you dine at Per Se today - you are limited to 1 of 2 fixed $250 tasting menus. Plus liquor - tax and 20% tip. At a place like Vendome - there are 2 tasting menus (large one is about $200) - and there is also an extensive a la carte menu - which will probably run about $150 for 3 courses. Plus liquor - tax - and a small or no tip (Germany is pretty much a "service included" kind of country). So the single seating in Germany is cheaper - although the cost of doing business in a suburb in Germany is certainly lower than the cost of doing business in NYC. These and related prices (like hotel prices) may not determine where you dine if you happen to live in NYC or Cologne - but they can influence a decision about where to take a trip.
On an unrelated note - I recall that the other 3 star restaurants in Germany (and I think there are only 4 others) - are a lot more out of the way. But there is certainly excellent dining in the middle of things - particularly in Berlin. Which I think is an up and coming food city - an excellent city to visit for other reasons - and certainly one of the last travel values left in western Europe. For example - we dined at Vitrum - our hotel restaurant. The chef there - who is a rising star in Germany - got his first Michelin star a couple of years ago. And in accordance with Michelin tradition in Europe - he will have to wait patiently for his second star (which I think he deserves) - and then improve and wait some more to try to get his third. I will continue my thoughts about this in the Germany forum.
Finally - I agree that any restaurant can screw up. The issue is what happens after it screws up. I had made our reservations at Vendome six months in advance through the hotel (where the restaurant is located). The hotel staff failed to communicate our reservation to the restaurant - so - when we arrived for dinner - there was no table for us. The maitre d' gave us some champagne - and proceeded to set up a table in an unused alcove. The table wasn't in the main dining room - and I was disappointed by the seating (although not by the food or the service). When we mentioned the mistake to the hotel staff early the next morning (we were checking out) - they were mortified. They proceeded to comp us 120 euros worth of limo rides (from the train station to the hotel - and from the hotel to the airport). And they presented us with a gift basket - a teddy bear - and excellent bottles of olive oil and vinegar. Had to decline the liquids because I would have had to pack them before we got on our connecting flight in the US - and I had nightmarish thoughts of broken bottles. But it was the thought that counted. And I left very satisfied at how the establishment had handled the mistake. Robyn
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An interesting information.
Last time when we (5 people - almost guaranteed 2-3 bottles of wines, right?) booked at Daniel for 545 PM, we're told that we must clean up everything by 830 PM - of course many of us were not happy and decided to go to JG instead where there's no issue about the time at all. Despite many good reviews about the food, maybe this part what makes Daniel is not really a 3-star restaurant. Hmm, maybe I should try to go to Cologne sometimes ...
Or perhaps try Germany in general. We dined at 5 Michelin starred restaurants there - including one - Vitrum in Berlin - which was rated 1 star - but tasted like 2. Again - a single seating restaurant. I used to think maybe I was crazy because I hated what were supposed to be high end restaurants in the US - especially in NY - trying to turn over tables 2-3 times/night. Forcing you to dine at 5 - or 10 - when you weren't a frequent guest of the restaurant. I dined at Per Se at 5:30 - and I hated it. Now I know I'm not crazy!
As for Cologne - apart from the eating - it is a fairly small city with about 2 days of things to see (apart from cruises on the Rhine). There is one world class contemporary art museum - a world class cathedral - a lot of art galleries - and not a whole lot more - except for the local beer - Kolsch - which is a world class beer
. Robyn -
We've just returned from a 2 week trip to Germany. We had a lot of good food. And we dined at 2 3 star Michelin restaurants - Dieter Muller and Vendome. Both were exquisite. The maitre d' at Vendome told us an interesting story. He traveled to New York recently with a companion/partner - to learn about new food and food trends in the US. He dined at the usual suspects in New York - every place from JG to Masa to Per Se. Although he is a maitre d' - and I doubt he earns a huge amount - his companion apparently is not in the same income bracket. They had a 7 pm reservation at Per Se. Arrived 15 minutes late - and were told no matter what they ordered - their table had to be empty by 9. So his companion - to make a point - ordered a $2000 bottle of wine. Then - everything changed - and the table was theirs for the whole night.
Now at places like Dieter Muller and Vendome - the table is yours for the night no matter what you order (although neither meal cost us less than $500 - or maybe it was 500 euros
- even with modest regional wines). But this maitre d' was quite dismissive of the American preference for multiple seatings in restaurants that purport to be high class. We spoke with Dieter Muller after our meal at his restaurant - and he was equally dismissive of the notion that a 3 star restaurant would have multiple seatings. And so am I. I enjoyed our 3-4 hour meals at Dieter Muller and Vendome 1000% more than I have enjoyed any meal that I have had in New York in recent years. Not only was I not forced to eat a meal at an ungodly hour (like 5:30) - or hurried through a 6 course meal - but the food was better - a lot better. So were the wine pairings. Sad commentary on dining in the US. Robyn -
We are in Munich now - and this is a little feedback. Our eating was seriously deranged by jet lag for a few days. And then we got back to normal. In terms of higher end eating - we tried Vau for lunch - and Vitrum for dinner. We enjoyed both a lot - but they are very different. Vau is a solid one star Michelin restaurant. Vitrum - although it is one star in the Michelin Guide - deserves at least two. It's mostly the difference between the refinement in the dishes - the food at Vau is simpler - the food at Vitrum more complex. But at each - both the food and service were excellent - and I can recommend both restaurants highly.
For what it's worth - we chose these 2 restaurants because Vau is the only starred restaurant in Berlin that is not in a hotel - and we were staying at the Ritz Carlton - where Vitrum is located. No reason to try another starred hotel restaurant before you try the one in the hotel where you're staying.
We are now at the MO in Munich. Had a light dinner (excellent) at the hotel restaurant (Mark's) on Saturday - and will be doing a full dinner tomorrow night. Will report back. Robyn
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I'm leaving this morning - will arrive tomorrow - and will be there until Saturday (with my computer). So if anyone has any ideas - I'd love to hear them. Robyn
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@Robyn: wow, Vendome *and* Müller...!! I see you are not travelling on budget...
The large tasting at both is around 150,- euros plus drinks (which are no bargain at both, either) and tip (no, not as much as in the US)...
Took a quick look - and if you omit the champagne sorbet and the foie gras - you're talking about 115 euros for a very nice meal. There's also a good chance I'll order a la carte (I usually can't do justice to more than 3 courses). Robyn
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Re Goldrot (I took a look at the website) - You know - I am almost ready to throw my Michelin Guide (2007 Germany) in the trash. The restaurant isn't even listed there. Now maybe it may not be worth a star - but it should be listed in the guide. It's not exactly a currywurst stand! Robyn
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@Robyn: wow, Vendome *and* Müller...!! I see you are not travelling on budget...
The large tasting at both is around 150,- euros plus drinks (which are no bargain at both, either) and tip (no, not as much as in the US).
Le Moisonnier is very different in style but one of the favorites (not only) among locals. And really very good... the 4 course lunch-menu is 50,- www.lemoissonnier.de/
In berlin restaurant "Goldrot" might be an option. Very modern in every way. The chef has worked at el bulli before - and it shows on the menu.
Never been to "Vau", but I hear it's quite good. Unfortunately most of the good restaurants in berlin are located in the huge hotels - a thing I don not like at all.
In munich, "Tantris" is a truly legendary place - in the 70s it was the starting point of the german gourmet cuisine...a classic 2* place with a very idiosyncratic interior design.
best
kai
We have a budget - it's just a large one
. I really couldn't resist the Vendome/Muller combination - an older 3 star Michelin chef and a younger 3 star Michelin chef just around the corner. Should be an interesting comparison. It's the reason I decided we had to go to Cologne.Our main restriction is avoiding eating too much food. Makes me very uncomfortable. So I am trying to combine a few larger meals with a larger number of smaller ones. I think I will be having a lot of spargel (it's light and I love it). Hope the season won't be over in the next 2 weeks.
I think our first introduction to food in Berlin may be street food. I just found out there is a huge street festival this weekend (Karneval Der Kulturen) - and it might be fun just to go around and nibble on different ethnic foods whenever we get hungry (with the jet lag - who knows when that will be?). Does anyone know anything about this festival? Robyn
Per Se: An Interesting Story
in New York: Dining
Posted
We ate high end - and low end - and in the middle. I found the low and middle type of service to be about the same as in the US (with some exceptions - which were probably due to variations in the restaurants as opposed to variations in the culture). FWIW - we never could figure out exactly how to tip in Germany. My husband settled on 10% - which I think made him very popular
. Robyn