jamiemaw

In the topic originally dedicated to discussion of the newly opened Watermark restaurant on Kits Beach, a number of members asked of the relative importance of tourism-heavy restaurants; the quality of food being served; and, ultimately, why big box view rooms often seem lacking. The following remarks (thank you barolo) were articulate and I think representative of most of the discussion and questions being raised, each of which really relates not to any one particular restaurant, but rather to the bigger picture of culinary tourism: I just wanted to get things rolling by stating a few tidbits . . . 1. As tourism agencies tire of regaling visiting journalists with tales of muscular scenery and sedentary assets such as art galleries and museums, culinary tourism has become one of the largest growth (ergo, promotional) sectors of our tourism sector. One need look no farther than the promotion of Dine Out Vancouver, and the Okanagan and Cowichan valleys etc. 2. After accomodation, the next largest 'spend' for many vistors is on food and dining. Some cities, such as Las Vegas (which has no discenible culinary provenance other than meat leathers and buffeterias) have headily capitalized on this fact. 3. Culinary tourists are growing more sophisticated by the minute. As barolo rightly argues, many do their homework (here and elsewhere) before parting with their dining dollars. For instance, many cruise visitors (and here I depart from barolo's argument) choose their cruise line (Celebrity--with Michel Roux, Crystal etc.) specifically for its food program. They rightly expect the same of our restaurants, especially with extended stay packages now being so aggressively marketed. 4. The international culinary spotlight is increasingly being shone--often for good reason--on Vancouver's ability to provide enthusiastic service, and interesting and diverse food at inexpensive prices. Expect that light to brighten in the lead-up to the Olympics. So, to throw the discussion open, how good an overall job do you think BC does in feeding our visitors? And do you think, as barolo lightheartedly suggested, that steaks and Caesar salads are sufficient reason to come back? Do you think that our big box restaurants (especially those on city or federal leases) could be doing a better job in living up to their views? What would you do to improve them? And finally, if you don't like those spots--many of which drive the highest sales in the province--what would it take to lure you back? One that clearly didn't think they were doing a sufficient job--with both tourists and locals--by the way, is Joe Fortes. After extensive customer research they've undergone a quiet but remarkable renovation of physical plant, menus and staff training. Result: Sales are up a reported 25%. On the other hand, perhaps we should just let them eat cake.

This thread is in peril in veering off topic, so to properly respond to Barolo's remarks, I've begun a new topic called Culinary Tourism in British Columbia

Accountants? ← Perhaps this is the classic case of the pencil stirring the soup. Too bad. So much potential. It is not too late for a retool. ← Agrred on all counts, Neil--let's hope for the very best.

Do you folks get Smarties--a product of Nestle Rowntree--down there? They're an English confection similar in dimension to M&Ms but with a thicker candy shell and superior chocolate.

Watermark Anecdote: As you may know, the restaurant is totally non-smoking, including outside on the lengthy balcony. But during our last visit, we couldn't help but notice the strong smell of cigar. "Maybe they've changed their policy already," someone in our party said. Upon leaving, we found the culprits and they were standing right under the balcony: two plainclothes cops on their break smoking nickel stinkys.

OK. That slightly shifty concierge you ten-spotted recommended the joint on the waterfront and told you "It's a tough reservation but I'll do my best to get you in for the 'sunset' seating." Pretty view. But there are a few disturbing signals like napkins handerkerchiefed into the wine glasses, whipped butter, a miniature loaf of bread presented with a steak knife, laminated menus and “Gump, party of 16, your table is ready,” ringing out on the PA every few seconds. Your server asks, “So where you folks from?” before recommending the Thai prawns with cocktail sauce and the mahi mahi with lemon-butter or the “signature awesome buco”. The menu has specials pinned to the days of the week: If this is Friday, it must be blackened catfish. Please dish: Any and all tourist trap restaurant stories appreciated here. And please feel free to go beyond the signals and share your actual experiences on the road . . . or even in your own home town.

Accountants?

Agreed. The City of Vancouver has leased this important real estate to a private operator. Tourist-heavy restaurants do have an additional responsibility, in my opinion, especially this one. Unfortunately though our waterfront restaurants are largely MOR and, consequently, less. Much less. I certainly am saying that a relatively expensive but poor dining experience can absolutely sour impressions, especially for cruise tourists with but one night to spend. At least that's what the cruise tourists sitting beside us at Watermark had to tell us. After accomodation, dining out is the next largest expenditure that many tourists make. In many tourist trap restaurants there is a 'burn and turn' mentality--i.e. burn the mahi mahi and turn the table. I'm sure that you and other conscientious servers go to extra lengths to ensure dining pleasure for visitors. That was certainly my impression of the service at Watermark. But even a cheerful, well-trained and professional server couldn't redeem the kitchen's shortcomings. It has a ripple effect up and down the food chain. You can well imagine what the hotel GM whom we dined with had to say--he immediately called his concierge desk. "Drinks Only" recommendation he said. Because it would reflect poorly on his own operation, he can ill afford to recommend restaurant experiences that might be sub-par. And so on. I believe that if they (hypothetical tourists) were to go to West that they would likely leave with a more favourable impression. But the same holds true for Phnom Penh, Go Fish, The Banana Leaf, Hapa, C, The Kolachy Shop and a thousand others at various price points. I just hope that they don't shoot the messengers. As I stated upthread, David Richards is a terrific manager and Lynda Larouche an accomplished chef used to high volume. But the kitchen opened before it was fully set and the menu realistically appraised. Some of the menu items are already back in for re-engineering--good on them for revisiting the drawing board. That shaken beef, it seems, was definitely not stirring.

My issue is not entirely with what was written by Alex Gill, or the fact that they she was in twice unnoticed (which is a sin in this industry). My issue is that so many people are getting down on a restaurant that is just getting started. It seems as though just becuase so much money was spent on this business that it is supposed to come out of the gates running like a place that's been is business for 5 years. I do think it's entirely unfair to review a restarant in it's first 3 months in business. No new business opens up and operates flawlessly from day one. I was just talking with a fellow server the other day about how incredibly difficult it would be to run a restaurant that does the volume that Joe Fortes does with a entirely new staff. Despite the amazing talents of all management, I dought they could pull it off without some major difficulty. ← I couldn't disagree more. They're charging money ("$15,000 nights" as a couple of Watermark servers bragged in a Yaletown boozer after service one night), they had something to prove and, perhaps most importantly, oceanside restaurants, which are too few, might be the only Vancouver culinary impression left upon visitors. In other words: City lease equals civic responsibility too. That last statement might be the most important. We own this restaurant. It belongs to the citizens of Vancouver and we should care mightily as to its quality and the impression it leaves on outsiders. Alex Gill has adopted an (I think, admirably) consumerist cant to her restaurant reviews. She dosen't pretend to be a food geek. She's also fast out of the blocks, which a weekly deadline allows for. In re-reading her review "When Gorgeous Looks Are Deceiving", and despite her use of the 'C' word early on, I thought it a balanced look in the genre of "Should I Spend My Money Here?" She did, after all, heap praise on the decor ("fabulous job"), was "impressed with the wine menu" and seemingly had no fault with the service. Left unsaid: GM David Richards is one of the very best destination restaurant managers (The Prow et al) in the province. Gill even partially excuses the executive chef, in some part, stating that Lynda Larouche "is either way out of her league or [is] being forced to keep costs down and cut corners." In other words, the tenor of her article essentially puts the blame at the feet of the operators (leaseholders), whose culinary provenance is rooted in the deep fryers of the Elephant and Castle chain. Gill says "It seems no detail has been overlooked. Until we get to dinner, that is." And therein lies the problem. The menu was late to be tested thoroughly (within 48 hours of opening), the kitchen was late being delivered to Larouche for de-bugging (pots and pans were still being seasoned shortly before opening) and the "All things to all people all the time" menu, at least to her sensibility, seemingly spelt a failed opportunity. My take on what Gill said is that what might have looked good on paper proved a series of disasters in execution. Also left unsaid is the obvious: After many delays (an arduous public hearing process, construction labour shortages etc.) the owners were in a rush to capture primetime summer traffic and generate some cash flow. Unfortunately that rush became most obvious in the shortcomings of the kitchen, although the construction mess left in the park is also inexcusable. I don't think Peter Barnett's swagger on the many TV spots did them any favours either. I see no reason at all why a restaurant shouldn't be reviewed soon after opening. The fact that we've had a string of duds in Vancouver lately (especially on the waterfront) is unfortunate, but true, and I applaud Gill for her candor. Concierges, please copy. Next, the fact that she wasn't recognized is an absolute non-issue. What were they going to do, make her portion-cut steak bigger? No. Make her albacore tuna tartare less "mushy"? No. Less "oozy" tempura smelts? Doubt it. The only things they could have "improved" (or as Neil says, made "extra special") would have been service-related and that, she said, was just fine. I agree. On one of our four visits to Watermark, we dined with the GM of a major downtown hotel. He was annoyed with the poor quality of our meal. But he was absolutely infuriated by the enormous gap between the admirable view, decor and service versus the lamentable glop on one plate in particular. City Hall, please copy. All of this being said, I did a series of exit interviews with Watermark patrons at the foot of its staircase. Many were glowing with praise, enraptured with the view, the sleek lines of the room and, yes, even the food. Proof positive, as Ms. Gill might also have said, that you can fool some of the people, some of the time.

The interwoven ironies of this thread expose several issues: 1. Keith got it right. In any publication of (reasonable) integrity there must be an absolute (church and state) separation between advertising and editorial. This is just one firewall that ensures independence. I have no idea who is going to advertise nor what product or service they might choose to promote. I daresay that's not always the case with some (smaller) publications where a lesser overhead may not allow same--i.e. where the publisher is also orchestrating ad sales and assigning or even writing the editorial. So, with great respect -cayenne-, I would take issue with the statement "Better communication between front end and back end staff would be appropriate." Chilean sea bass is still--strictly speaking--legal no matter how loudly I and others might argue that it should not be served on outdoor patios. 2. There remains significant ignorance about the service of many endangered or commercially extinct products for all the reasons cited in the article. Please refer to the websites quoted in the article, especially for the Monterrey Aquarium and Vancouver Aquarium Ocean Wise program. 3. I actually wrote two articles on this issue. The first was a much more technical treatise. I threw it out. What you read was (I hope) a much more approachable essay on the issues and recommendations about what you can do, so . . . 4. The ignorance still extant in the marketplace can only be remediated by journalists and consumers like you ensuring that the chef/proprietor or supplier in question becomes informed of the peril. So, as the article indicates, either don’t grace the restaurant, fish monger or wholesale supplier at all, or, much better, talk to them to explain the facts (once you know them) and your concern. I’ve found that most are entirely reasonable and that when they understand the seriousness of the issue, will seek a way to replace Chilean sea bass or other endangered fish with another, sustainable item. 5. It’s blue fin tuna that is severely threatened and you shouldn’t look kindly upon restaurants that serve it. Ahi (yellow fin) is under some pressure because of its popularity but from a sustainability stance is alright to eat even if it’s such a rampant cliché. Albacore is in good supply. I happen to really enjoy albacore sushi, especially as velvet will be such a major fashion theme this fall. Now excuse me. Have to go 'burb the baby.

Jet black granite--1"--great. Except for fingerprints and other Kitchen CSI events and telltales--hell for a Virgo.

It's common knowledge that Rutland is the Kihei of Kelowna. Not incidentally, the garden variety Walla Walla is a near ideal accompaniment (with some basil, a punchy vinaigrette and some good salt) to Milan's pommes d'amour. A twist of coarse pepper also recommends itself. But how to judge ripeness? A ripe tomato should smell so, and should supplicate itself to one's hand much like a pert but mature breast so that wicked abandon must shortly follow.

Yes, they are better - dare I say, better than my own! (and they're pretty darn good, and exactly the same variety). I chalk it up to something in the soil.....but they truly are amazing - try and you shall see! Nothing I've tried in any other market even comes close - in fact, I was so desperate for an heirloom, I paid $7.50 for one at Whole Foods last weekend. ← First off, I'm terribly sorry about my blunder (I'm on vacation time)--of course the truck markets are on Thursday mornings at GI. Second, many folks (Maw aussi) put the heady flavour of Milan's tomatoes up to the rocky soil that bears their fruit. Like the best grape vines, the tomato plants have to struggle to promote that fruit. Another factor I find attractive is their low cost. The other day we took a pound of haricots vert, some huge Walla Walla onions, several zukes and a kilo of tomatoes for $10. But certainly Milan's personality and reputation enter into the equation as well: It's not uncommon to bump into a chef in the fields at Stoney Paradise, down on his hands and knees, searching for tomato perfection. As a rule, he won't have to look very long. I daresay there's a recognition factor attached to Milan's 'brand' as well, i.e. knowing that you're eating the same lusty globes that are being served in some of the best restaurants around the town.

The first fleshy Cascades, sugary Sun Golds and recalcitrant Moscovitches are coming off the Stoney Paradise vines this week, heavy with flavour and heat. I ate the first ones at C on Sunday evening, so rare as to be a garnish. But today we went up our dusty street in Kelowna and got greedy, picking a bagful of the big-breasted brutes. As usual, Milan will pick into the sunset, rest at the tollboth, and then deliver his troth unto you. At Granville Island, Wednesday morning. The early bird, as they say, gets the (horn) worm.

Pomme d'amour: I ate the first tomato from our garden yesterday. It was a Canabec (a cultivar partial to our cool spring nights--bred in Quebec as the name suggests). It was warm from the sun and I ate it like an apple with just some flakes of Maldon salt. I pulled its stem like a grenade and took a deep bite from its plump and heavy flesh and then I sucked at it greedily like a baby at the breast.

My Vancouver Top-40 (or so). They might range from the homely to the twee, from the Jewish-Japanese fusion found at Hime Japanese Restaurant to the reassuringly (if unimaginatively) named Tasty Hungarian Goulash Restaurant, but all ask the same question-- "Was this really a good idea?" Top Paste Food Restaurant Dai-Bac No. 2 Double DD Pizza Woo Lee Jip Authentic Vietnamese Cuisine Restaurant Tea-Ny Bubbles Café Thang Bom Vong Gac Salad Loop Enterprises Limited Towa Young Japanese Takeout Restaurant Dalat By Night Restaurant Don Don Noodle House Jason’s Beef Noodle Dong’s Dai Ichi Sushi U-Grill Ten Thanks Uncle Fatih’s Pizza Inspiring Grounds Cafe Sushi Q Mrs. Suave Filipino Cuisine Oh! Darling Japanese Restaurant Fast Food Gassy Jack’s Foo’s Ho Ho Original Goodmorning Restaurant Kaywest Western Japanese-Style Cuisine Wonder Sushi Ho Tak Kee Wonton House Woo Mi Sushi Fresh Counter & Catering Golden Chop & Wok Good Deal Restaurant Limited Good View Seafood Hot Pizza Wokman’s Woo Mi Sushi Wow! Factor Desserts X-It Café Zesty Restaurant Chatters Kung Pow Phat Soy Restaurant Enterprises (2005) Limited

FannyBay, The concept, menu, decor and other features of Nu were shared a while back, especially on Posts #46 and #51 of this thread--hope you find the explanation helpful. A number of eGulleteers also toured the new space during the Sustainability Luncheon a month ago--we thought the bones looked pretty fine. Nu is doing a soft F + F opening around the 12 - 14th and (final permits allowing) hopes to be charging cash money by the 15th. Sue Alexander, who handles PR for Nu is quite capable of describing the concept. Let me know by PM if you would care to contact her directly. Jamie

Lorna, hardly Freudian I'm sure, but now we all kind of miss him too.

Unfortunately, over the course of our three visits, the restaurant did not have many of the featured wines. They also did not have ketchup, and made no attempt to fetch same from their downstairs concession. So I did.

Thanks. The line-up has never bothered us particularly, especially if we aim for the cusps at 5:30 (rarely--because that's more like a late lunch), or just before 8pm when the crowd going to the Stanley empties out, or just after 9 when the first turn peels off. Otherwise I don't mind a half hour wait or so wait over a cleansing IPA and a chat. I do that in most restaurants anyway. Thought I might add that we had an Indian nanny for 13 years. Sajni is an excellent cook and our house smelt like a Yellow Cab for the longest time:glorious. My daughters are addicts, and now that they're away at university, that little room on West 11th is usually their first stop on the way into town. Jamie

I agree. We frequently volunteer to host visiting food media. As a rule I trust their opinions. In addition to the usual suspect restaurants I've found that they are increasingly interested in our always expanding Asian cookery. But if you had to pick just one restaurant that shows up the most often in the foreign press it would likely be Vij's--it almost always seems to resonate. In so doing, it attracts attention to the city and floats all the boats a little higher and, in that lovely self-perpetuating equation, the benefit to us is more dining opportunities.

Found in Translation Here‘s a list of the items that I think may have separated Vikram Vij from our earlier notion of South Asian cuisine: 1. Fresh, evolved, distinctively flavoured cooking—what we call clean-- and a willingness to experiment endlessly with new approaches to old recipes, especially when incorporating local ingredients such as halibut, mussels, venison, quail and short ribs; 2. Flavours that do not collude, i.e that do not run to ‘mud’ after three courses; 3. Accessible, informed presentation with lots of explanation/translation; 4. Access—When he moved from West Broadway to West 11th he intuitively understood that Vancouver’s dining landscape was changing quickly: becoming increasingly casual, spontaneous, drop-in, and small-plates driven. He was at the forefront of it; he also established one of the first South Asian restaurant websites; 5. A West Side location; 6. A short menu that changes frequently but that always contains touchpoint items such as branded items like 'lamb posicles'; 8. A wine list that is microscopic (low inventory charge) but accurately underwites and understands the food; 9. Ditto the beer. 10. Design and décor that is intimate and even cosseting, that you have one foot in his home; 11. An egalitarian seating system (princes, politicos and World-Renowned International Food and Wine Journalists from Brighton, England wait in line just like regular schmoes such as me); 12. Comfortable waiting places indoors and out; 13. Open feedback—he is as closely touch with his customers as any owner/host in town; 14. An intuitive sense for cheerful promotion; 15. Personal colour; 16. Reinvention: A Never Rest On Your Laurels approach; 17. A cool factor (discovery + empowerment = entitlement) that forced the tipping point of acceptance; 18. Rangoli—the diffusion line; and 19. A sensibility of giving back to the community and consulting with his peer group, sine timore aut favore. While none of these items on their own might have seemed revolutionary, in hindsight and in context I believe that they collaborated both to build a successful restaurant business and to influence and change our dining landscape. You may choose for yourself whether that was a little or a lot.

Nor at this end. Subtle humour never transmitts well on-line A. ← What a funny thing to say.

How well stated. And on the younger cusp of the generational divide is where, thankfully, the future lies. I see another tipping point for this issue as well: this months copy of Forks and Corks, Tourism vancouver's well-produced newsletter, features Oceanwise. Together with other groups such as Chefs' Table and what Andy is proposing for London this autumn, the future might be said to look brighter.

Please see Post # 13, upthread.