jbraynolds

Right. Why simply state something when you can overstate it? Who said Trotter was a "living God"? And, I'm quite curious about mentioning Lucas Carton and Arpege in the same sentence: LC is a factory/brasserie and Arpege is, if anything, remarkably like Trotter's. They could not be more different at every level - room, food, wines, service, mood. If you really hold Arpege in high esteem I'll bet you'd be very impressed by the whole Trotter's experience. Lucas Carton is, from my experience, one of the three biggest (literally) French Michelin 3-star clip joints (the others being Bocuse and Georges Blanc). The only relationship that I can see betweem LC and Arpege is that the Arpege space used to belong to Senderens...beyond that?

Some people enjoy things above and beyond the basic. I wouldn't call them fools.

Yes, the pork shank is Maloney & Porcelli (David Burke creation). The New York article clearly has the shanks confused.

Many species of fish are never served straight out of the water. Also, the most in-demand sea urchin in the world is sourced out of the Pacific from an area between just north of San Diego up to around Santa Barbara. Then there are those sushi chefs who swear by the urchins from up near Nova Scotia...anyway, the U.S. is and has been a broad source for restaurants in Japan so high-end places here have access to product of quality equal to pretty much anybody in the home country (Pacific Northwest oysters or Taylor Bay scallops, anyone?). And don't forget that pretty much all tuna is frozen, anyway.

Yasuda is my favorite in NYC, followed by Sushi of Gari and Chikubu.

Will be at Trotter's Thursday night and will try to post a long-winded, unbiased report when I get back.

Lame attempt at sarcasm on my part...for what it's worth, the New York review was glowing. Lots of the dishes sound really good. I'll be giving it a shot shortly, for sure. Prices sound reasonable (apps $7-$13, mains $17-$28) as well.

Maybe I'm out of the loop but Adam Platt refers to "the famous Valenti pork shank" in this week's review (quite positive). When did Valenti change from lamb to pork? And if there's a "famous pork shank", shouldn't it be Burke's? Call me nit-picky.

Hoping that this is back on topic: Adam, how did you find the experience at Seeger's? I'm curious because you've been there and it has much in common with Trotter's, at least on the surface. I was there three weeks ago and did not have a very good time. The service was really cold, made Trotter's look like a down-home joint, actually...I was dining alone, as I often do since I travel a lot. I brought a book, as usual, in case the wine list isn't interesting to thumb through (and it emphatically was not) and tried to make small talk with the staff, which was not very responsive (that's an understatement). Times I've been solo at high-end "celebrity chef" places the staff has bent over backwards to make me comfortable - chatty, chef comes out, curious what I do, why I'm there, etc. None of that at Seeger's. And the sommelier's selections of wines to go with the tasting menu constituted an amazing rip-off. A good Ste. Croix du Mont with the foie gras, a Bourgogne Blanc with the fish, a Vin de Pays (2002, worst vintage in modern history) with the duck and a quite good Muscat Beaumes de Venise with dessert. The two sweet wines were half-pours (nice Riedels) and the others were about 3 ounces. That's it. The total cost of all four bottles (the whole bottle), to the restaurant, was way less than what I paid for the pairing ($50). I know that you didn't drink wine at Trotter's but, believe me, you'd never get such basic wines as I was served (Bernard Morey Bourgogne Blanc and Grande Cassagne "Triage") there. That Grande Cassagne wholesales for something like $5.50! Anyway, I digressed. Just curious how you'd compare the two places: I've found CT to be more relaxed and the wines and wine service infinitely superior. The food...that's another long-winded story.

I didn't say or mean to imply that one needs to be an "expert" to have a valid opinion about a subject...I did say that I measure the weight of somebody's opinion against their experience with that subject. I'm in the wine trade, I show a Cote-Rotie (a syrah from the northern Rhone) to someone and they say "whoah, this is funky/wild/meaty/gamy!". If I don't know them or their palate/preferences, I'll probably ask (to get an understanding of where they're coming from) how much experience they have with northern Rhones or syrah, the grape. Usually he ones with the strongest negative reaction are trying one of these for the first time. Maybe they just don't "get it/like it" but, hopefully, they won't say that the wine is a "superdud" simply because they're trying something that isn't their personal cup of tea, yet, or maybe it never will be. The fact that one loves something doesn't make it "great" and the fact that someone doesn't like the same thing doesn't make it "suck".

Maybe they were Gigandes? They're popular in Spain and I think were originally cultivated in Greece.

As a side note about food costs, I was out in San Diego a few weeks ago (pre-wildfire) and Chino's Farm (big supplier to west coast high-end places, nice article in Saveur a while back) is about 10 minutes from my relatives. Went by to get vegetables for a dinner; no prices, just lots of gorgeous, photo-worthy produce. Got various eggplants, tomatoes, Japenese sweet potatoes, sunchokes, some herbs, nothing outrageous or in great quantity/weight. $48! Scary...but they tasted great and my in-laws got a quick lesson in what that stuff they ate at Patina must have cost in the raw state.

Hey, Mark...At the risk of agitating people who don't care about the frills, bells and whistles, CT uses Riedel Vinum for the basics, even for water glasses (at one time they had some Ouverture but I believe they dropped it) and then moves up, in many cases to the Sommelier line - those things are breathtakingly expensive. Kind of interesting that CT has stuck with Riedel but he does have an advertising deal with them so I'm sure there's a pretty healthy break for the restaurant as a result. They use Frette linens, as I'm guessing Citronelle does as well. There's lots of Bernardaud porcelain at CT as well. I think they use Sambonnet for place settings...maybe Christofle or Degrenne as well? Anyway, diners at CT are usually sitting in front of up to $700 worth of gear a head at each course, counting the linens. I, for one, get a kick out of it. Doesn't happen that often at home, unfortunately!

CT continues to use Riedel stemware while most of his competition (Daniel, for instance) has moved to Spiegelau, which is anywhere from 50% to 66% less expensive. They also use many sets of patterned china, like what you'd get for wedding presents from people like Rosenthal and Villeroy and Bosch, rather than exclusively using the plain, "commercial" white patterns, which are at least half the price of what CT lays out. Granted, you can't eat crystal and china so maybe some don't care about such stuff but they're all part of the experience there and they have to add to the bottom line.

Okay, I'll weigh in with what I'm sure some (many?) will think is a snotty response: if you don't have sufficient experience with (insert whatever field/thing you wish here), then your opinion, at anything beyond a personal taste level on (that field/thing) must be taken with a grain of salt. What do I know about, oh, certain types of rugs? 19th century French economic philosophers? Early 20th century Russian composers? Nothing? So why should anyone take my opinion about those things very seriously? A "valid opinion", I've been taught, should have emphasis on the "valid" part...read: "informed". Is it snotty to ask that someone who expresses an opinion, especially a strong one, at least back it up with something that carries a bit more weight than "that's just how I feel"?

I was with of a group of high-end out of town chefs and wine importers who were in N.O. for a charity dinner and we all went to Galatoire's for lunch. Everyone had a blast. Lots of Champagne, Bloody Marys, Martinis, Gimlets and Sazeracs and, yes, great classic dishes. Remarkable time...gotta mix the powdered sugar with Tabasco. Has to be one of the great N.O. dining experiences

No, the customer is not always right. The fact that you can pay a bill doesn't make you "right" or give you a free pass to be a prick. The whole "customer is always right" thing is way-too-often turned into "I'm the customer, now get over here and start kissing my ass". Anybody who treats everybody who comes to their establishment/business with the attitude that it's now ass-kissing time will obviously do anything for a buck. No wonder part of many people's dream of owning their own business is so that they can tell cretinous customers to go to hell.

The best dining years (or most exciting) were the early ones. I'll never forget the anticipation of my first meal at Pic.

"Wads O'Cash"? Famous Irish gourmand?

Well, at least you didn't say that the stuffings at Taco Bell are extruded. Twice. Or that there's something poetic about how a ground up extruder winds up getting extruded, yet again. But, odds are, extrusion doesn't happen a third time. Mor eof a Jackson Pollack effect, you know.

Bacchanalia is, in my opinion, one of the very best restaurants in America. Hope you liked it as much as I have. They make a crab fritter that seems to be lighter than air...the best "crab cake" I've ever had, anywhere, and that includes 8 years in the Baltimore/Annapolis/D.C. corridor and marriage to a native coastal Marylander (can't say Baltimoron). Was at Bacchanalia two weeks ago and can't say enough good things about it. THAT is a great restaurant if you're on the trail of fine dining in America.

I'm not sure if my post is included by Marcus as one that is condescending or gratuitous but maybe some clarification is in order. Trotter's is not going to appeal to everyone, especially, I think, someone who views themself as an "aspiring" gourmand. Saying that one should walk before they run (Adam's own point) is not condescension. It's not elitism. It's simply stating that many tastes (like, say, dining at a place such as Trotter's) are acquired. Or maybe they aren't. I don't expect my 7-year old to like a medium-rare steak now, or a soft-boiled egg, or a scoop of Epoisses, or espresso, or etc. Maybe she never will. Expectations are personal things and when they're not met, I think that it's fair to try to find out how such expectations were hatched and what to what the object of disappointment is being measured. Finally, at the risk of sounding even more elitist (I'm sure that no matter how I phrase all of this, that's how it'll be taken by some), dining at Trotter's without wine diminishes the experience. And, no, I don't mean getting loaded. They put a lot of work and thought into it, to good effect.

Taco Bell has definitely captured the mainstream palate and, unfortunately, probably defines "Mexican" food for millions of people. I guess that Old El Paso could take some credit, too. And Doritos. The real deal is, alas, seemingly too daunting for the majority. If people can't deal with the authentic version, simply white-bread it down. Hence the enormous popularity of Chevy's, Chuy's, Chi Chi's and, "Asian"-wise, P.F. Chang's. Not to mention places like Sullivan's which (very successfully)offer up a faux-steakhouse experience, loaded with every possible cliche at shopping centers across the land.

Dining at a place like Trotter's if you're not in the mood for the routine or, I don't mean to sound snobbish (no intent!), if you've not had much experience with this type of food/service/atmosphere is a bit akin to, as I think Adam pointed out, trying to wade through Ulysses before To Kill A Mockingbird. I like music metaphors: it's like trying to get into Miles Davis' stuff from the late-60s before easing up to it from his early-50s work. Or Coltrane (inside Trotter's joke). My first dinner at Trotter's was in 1994 and followed about five years of occasional visits to Michelin-starred places in France as well as upper-end places in D.C., Boston and NYC. I'd seen much more stilted service, more contrived dishes and church-like atmospheres by then than I care to remember...Trotter's was far from the worst offender. But, big but here, I was measuring it against a host of other, similarly Grand Experience places. I've taken non-food people there and their usual reaction is "what a poseur joint". Food/restaurant freaks are, usually but not always, quite impressed (and most of us know that food/restaurant freaks love to find and point out faults). Trotter's is not for everyone but anybody who's comfortable with the routine at Daniel, Patina, The French Laundry, Le Bernardin, Tru, Tribute, Seeger's, etc. owes themselves a visit. The times I've been there when it's on (both food and service) are some of the best meals of my life.

Agreed on the misguided dishes at FG/Topo...the more classic dishes are way more consistent. The drinks are good, too.