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John, you're right, of course. Nonetheless, I thought it was a relevant example to illustrate that some people, twenty years ago, tried to credit their sources and went a step beyond that and the answer they received. That said, I have a hard time finding differences between the "direct copying without permission" and "copying in a plagiaristic form." Less than two months ago, I was served in a recently opened NY avant-garde restaurant a dish directly coming from elBulli 2004 without any credit given. Who knows how this dish appeared in the restaurant? Since the recipe is now in the public domain through elBulli books, is it right not to credit the source?

Back in 1985, two of the most idiosyncratic personalities of gastronomy in Spain, Stephane Guerin and Arturo Pardos opened in Madrid the restaurant La Gastroteca de Stéphane y Arturo. A few months after the opening, they read the news from France: there were some very important chefs who were truly outraged and protested at what they considered an unbearable abuse: there were some Japanese chefs who were shamelessly copying their signature dishes, and adding insult to injury, didn't credit the original authors. The indignant French chefs wondered if the time of getting some copyright fees hasn't come. Stephane and Arturo soon realized that they were nothing more than humble copyists and that the claims made by the French chefs were legitimate. So, they began to pay royalties to eight great French chefs as a sign of respect and compensation, something they called "Le Copyright des Fourneaux" (the stoves Copyright). Each month, they sent to the Eights the 1.25% of the price of the copied dish multiplied by the number of sold dishes in the given month. Soon after, replies began to arrive: Michel Guerard: " I do appreciate very much the decision you've made in what it concerns to me, regarding the compensation of a certain kind of author rights, but I can't accept it. I'm deeply touched by your letter and your great honesty. PS: you'll receive, by return of post, a money order of 55.40F" Pierre Troisgros: "Your honesty honors you and we can't but congratulate you for the diligences you've made for us. Nonetheless, we don't believe necessary to continue with them in the future, because annoying formalities would derive for very little. All in all, to avoid complications returning back your money, we have splitted it among the cooks." Roger Verge: "The method you're proposing is extremely nice, but in order of being truly applicable and not getting me engaged in vain, it would require a study carried out by a lawyer, something that would cost far more than the profits I could make. Unless, of course, you find a method more seductive to propose." Alain Senderens: "We are very proud that in your menu appears the name of the creator of the dishes, but we don't ask any royalties for the sales. I enclose a return check." Jacques Maximin didn't answer. Andre Daguin, after consulting a handful of specialists, said that "that" was impossible. He invited them to a feast at his Hotel de France instead. On January 15 1987, they received a letter in his own hand from the Empereur himself: "Dear Madam, dear Sir: I appreciate your kindness, but I'd rather ask you to save the royalties to buy me a paella when I visit Madrid, because I don't know how to cook it. During this nice impasse, I send you all my sympathy and best wishes for 1987. Paul Bocuse PS: I enclose you a reimbursement check. And Arturo Pardos, in his book El Ocaso de las Paellas (The Paellas Sunset) concludes: "None of the big shots accepted the royalties: were they afraid of the responsibility? should we infere, therefore, that they copied too? And if they copy or copied, why are they offended when they are copied"

Yes, Corinna, Espai Coch is part of the Can Fabes building but it has its own separate entry. The kitchen is the same for the two restaurants, but Espai Coch works with a fix prix menu where you can choose a starter, a second course, a main course and the dessert, wines included. As you guessed, it doesn't include luxury ingredients and the preparations tend to be more simple than those of Can Fabes.

You don't need to book the train advance. Actually, for that distance, I doubt you could book it in advance at all. Regarding prices, take a look at Can Fabes.

This is an area where scientific research may show us something. It's not only required that you make a discovery to be credited as `the´ inventor. It's required that you document your findings in a recognized publication reviewed by your peers before anyone else does. If you're not the first in publishing, bad luck. There are some publications which may serve this purpose in the gastronomy field, see for instance Apicius in Spain. By the way, this is quite similar to the approach which elBulli is following with their books where they document everything they create, giving credit where needed.

Why is Pedro reviewing this restaurant again? It is apparent that Santi has not altered his menu since last year. I fail to comprehend why this is a culinary item for this forum?? Judith Gebhart ← a) Thanks, Milla, you're right. Judith, read the thread, or at least the latest posts. I'm not reviewing Can Fabes again, I'm simply answering a question posted upthread about whether they serve the same menus during lunch and dinner. Does the sentence "Yes, the menus are the same" really qualify as a review in your book? b) What's wrong with not changing the menu for a year? Something which, by the way, Santi did among other reasons due to the change of seasons. Why are you saying he did not?. On a different note, and letting aside for a minute seasonality, is it mandatory to change a menu with any given frequency? Keep in mind that there are also practitioners in the hypervanguard camp who don't change the menu that ofter or that introduce changes in it that could be qualified as subtle, to say the least. Nothing wrong about it in my book. c) I wouldn't call Can Fabes a culinary item of this forum. In fact, I'd say that there are more people in this forum that question Can Fabes' quality and Santi than people supporting them. That's fine, though I'm on the side of those who believe that Santi is one of the finest chefs in the country. I hope that's fine too, Judith.

It's not, joesan, though you can't buy it directly from elBulli book's site if you live in the States or Canada. As docsconz wrote, if you follow the "Comprar" link it'll get you to a different page where you can see the available languages for El Bulli 1994-1997.

The book is already available in English: elBulli Books

Yes, the menus are the same.

I'm not so sure about contemporary Spanish chefs crediting American cooking more than French cuisine, Bux. Michel Bras is a reference for many of them, clearly in the case of Berasategui and Aduriz. Adria's ground-breaking dish in 94, which many people himself included point as the dish which opened the way in his cooking, the menestra en texturas or textured vegetable panaché, is at the same time a deconstruction of a traditional dish as is linked with the garguillou from Bras. That said, tere seems to be consensus that the States will lead the next gastro wave eventually. Peru ranks high too in those bets. Nonetheless, WD-50 is a restaurant that could exist in Spain without anyone noticing anything particular about it. Blue Hill, to some extent, would be in the same category. Since I haven't dined at Ureña, I don't know if that would be the case for them. What's your take on that, Bux?

Interesting points, joesan and sizzleteeth. At this point of the conversation, it may be relevant to link to the so called Philosophical synthesis of elBullirestaurant, aka Adria's manifesto issued in Madrid Fusion 2006. There's more than technique in elBulli's cooking. I tend to agree with sizzleteeth's arguments to certain extent. I, for one, am not interested in the techniques and technologies applied at elBulli. Or perhaps I should say that interest is secondary. I'm interested in the results they obtain with them. And, in the three meals I've had at the restaurant, I've been served dishes that I'd be surprised if a vast majority of patrons wouldn't rate as 10 out of 10. True, in those same meals I've been served dishes which were just technique demos or attempts to amuse you at a level beyond taste. Those were less interesting to me, at least some of them. But the four or five dishes in each meal that make you feel happy are worth the trip there. And that's the aspect I miss in the discussion so far: let's not forget that Adria is producing great dishes. Some of them, unique dishes.

Ronnie, was Juli Soler -- Adrià's partner and co-owner of El Bulli -- with him?

Welcome to eGullet, GastroChick! If it wasn't planned, your stopping at Getaria and lunch at Kaia lead you to one of the finest treats in Spain when it comes to seafood. The turbot that it's cooked at Elkano and Kaia is worth the trip to Getaria no matter where you come from.

According to Juli Soler, the volume 2003-2004, which from a design point of view takes El Bulli books a higher level, would be the next to appear in the other languages by the half of 2006, without having a date yet for the 1983-93 volume. In a meeting I had with Juli at the Taller at Carme, he showed me how they were already working in the 2005 book, among other things.

Was the translation particularly challenging, Martin?

. . . . . RE: Fruit & Sex, I think this is a nomenclature thing from languages with feminine and masculine articles. . . . . . ← Quite possibly: in Spanish, for instance, peaches and plantains have a masculine gender while oranges and apples have a feminine gender.

Halfly tongue in cheek, Víctor, I would say that that's enough. I agree that Rafa is one of the places that, IMHO, is overrated among members of the eGullet Society (we have our fair share of those not only in Spain). In fact, this is what I wrote some time ago: Albeit, Rafa's earned a reputation in the foodie community which goes well beyond eGullet. A number of blogs and food forums feature him along with mentions here and there in mainstream media (a good example, also associated with Adria, can be found at the end of this article of The Observer). Places like Rafa exist all over the country -- FM in Granada comes immediately to my mind -- but they hardly have the exposure Rafa enjoys thanks to Adria. The first excerpt of a series of four published at the Daily Gullet (Reflections on the product) of El Bulli 1994-1997, which also mentions Rafa, is a good example of the notoriety that Rafa is achieving thanks to Adria and they guys from El Bulli.

Athinaeos, among other threads, you can take a look at: Docsconz at Rafa 2005 (with pics) Rafa, which acceded to world known fame when mentioned by Ferrán Adrià in his Los Secretos de El Bulli back in 1997, is one of the places where you can see what a good artisan with a plancha and wonderful product can do.

Note from the host: Let's try to keep answers on topic and confine them to food related aspects of immigration. Posts that drift off that directive will be deleted. Thanks for your cooperation.

Hmm, not too sure about that, Víctor. Madrid Fusion site shows under the label of sponsors a bunch of local, regional and national governmental departments. I seriously doubt that this is a 100% privately funded event, without any facts to support it other than the aforementioned site. Albeit, we all have to remember that tourism is Spain's first industry so it's not totally out of place that some public money is allocated to its promotion. At least by European standards, but that's an off topic matter.

Chris, you have to wait for the rest of the excerpts and see if you change your mind. Deconstruction and the first foam will expose a different side of El Bulli's cooking. Kent, the dish is green asparagus with ceps, parmesan whey and macadamia nuts. The ceps (boletus edulis) are wrapping the asparagus in.

Culinista, you have a deal: you'll have the rice and I'll have the rest.

Indeed any serious fish lover should seriously consider Kabuki when visiting Madrid. Ricardo has great ingredients and right now he's developing wonderful combinations as the pictures above show. If my memory doesn't fail me, I think the concha fina was from Málaga.

I don't have the time now for a thorough post about Gilt, but I had dinner at Gilt less than a month ago. The dinner ranks amongst the top meals I've had in the city. I believe I described the food at Gilt as being somewhere between Blue Hill and WD-50. Certainly, Liebrandt doesn't take as many bold risks as Wylie Dufresne, specially in the main course, but the touch and winks to the hypervanguardists of the world are there, including an elBulli 2003 snack. On the other hand, there's the respect for the ingredientts that you find at Blue Hill, rendering their natural flavor, though it's difficult to find a place (within my limited experience in NY's dining scene) with the quality and pureness of ingredients displayed by chef Juan Cuevas at Blue Hill. Probably not the right thread, but is there any critic out there in NY supporting the most risky propositions?

I've read the complete Fonalleras's article published by La Vanguardia (the article in Spanish (premium only)). After reading it, I can say that I doubt Keeley understood what Fonalleras intended to say. True, Fonalleras chose an indirect way of defending Adrià and his proposals, but that's precisely what he did. Quoting just a couple of sentences of the first paragraphs and removing them from their context doesn't help either. Fonalleras says that he won't object to those who claim that Adrià is crazy. That's true, he continues, and was already true when he met him ten years ago at the time Adrià was writing El Bulli: El sabor del Mediterráneo. Adrià already was thinking of "combinations that resembled more mathematics than cooking." Fonalleras adds: "He talked of his creative process with the vehemence, composure and inspiration of a poet. He was crazy back then, and what he has seen, lived and created have turned him even crazier." Then, after arguing that you shouldn't simply dismiss this craziness with a smile or conmiseration because this is the kind of madness of someone who publishes more than eight thousand pages in four volumes to support his project, concludes: "A very sane insanity."