Varietal

[Sneakeater]

The feeling I got from the wine list is that they're ahead in gathering the off-beat stuff of where they are in gathering the standard stuff. Not necessarily a criticism -- just an observation.

They don't have any house cocktails.

Edited December 26, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[BryanZ]

Going tomorrow. Will pay particular attention to the desserts.

Is it best to spend the majority of my funding on the sweet side of things? Recommended dishes, sweet and savory?

[Sneakeater]

The venison is the best savory I've had so far -- but it was only on the tasting menu. Two entrees I haven't had yet that look interesting are the pork belly with tobacco and the beef two ways. But you don't need me to tell you what looks interesting.

I'm very eager to try the monkfish liver appetizer, but haven't yet. Does that count as a recommendation? I thought the rabbit/foie gras appetizer I had was ordinary.

I think the thing to do with the desserts is just dive in. I think they're all of a piece, and it just depends on what strikes you. One problem is that what to me is the most interesting-seeming dessert (I'm not saying it's the best, only the most interesting-seeming) -- the concord grape with eggplant -- is only on the tasting menu.

Edited December 26, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[FoodPassion]

Well, I made it to Varietal tonight, and I am totally delighted by what I had, the decor of the very contemporary restaurant based on simplicity, the very varied wine list with quite unusual wines, and the "piese of resistance" - the amazing desserts. Although everything was great, I have no words to describe the mixture of flavors, textures, savory, colors, temperatures,and the artistic look, of the desserts. My taste buds felt like they were having a party, and my eyes were going through an art gallery!There was NOTHING I did not like to the max. All the dessert dishes were superb. Chef Kahn is truly a prodigy in the pastry field. He has a way of coming up with an amazing array of diverse foods with many difficult components, and putting them together to come up with a piece of art that tastes incredible.

All I can say to all the readers is to just try it for yourself. I highly recommend it to everyone. I especially would recommend for you to make an evening of this - enjoy it slowly and savor it. It will be a real treat!

[BryanZ]

First of all, I have to say not having eG over the past few days was tough. I went through major withdrawl. I've got three great meals to report that I've had in the past several days. Here's the first.

I stopped by Varietal on Wednesday night for a few savory bites and to jump into Chef Kahn's creations. I'm something of a modern cook in one of my other lives so having Chefs Stupak and Kahn now in New York (in addition to Chefs Goldfarb and Mason) is incredibly exciting for me. Although I have yet to try Chef Stupak's work at wd~50, I was thoroughly impressed with Chef Kahn's at Varietal. I think Varietal has the most exciting pastry in the city and to me some of the most compelling. Although I make no claims to having any kind of expertise in pastry at all, Chef Kahn's desserts really spoke to me in a powerful way.

In an attempt to not sound so shill-worthy, I will say that Varietal is not necessarily an amazing restaurant, despite the significant talents of its pastry chef. The savory offerings were good, sometimes very good, but nothing was completely transcendent. Our server was a really nice guy and very accomodating, but a couple minor issues kept the service from being truly top-notch. For one, there is a definite drop from the captains to the supporting waitstaff. Although this is true everywhere, I felt it in particular here. In addition, our table wasn't crumbed after our savory courses although it clearly needed it, and they failed the "napkin folding test" when the g/f left the table mid-meal. These are very minor complaints, but the kind of stuff I notice. It was also refreshing to see modern china that wasn't Bernardaud (although it appears the Mikasa Maxima line is effectively yet another take on Bernardaud Fusion). And there are really, really cool knives. Anyway, I digress. Overall, I predict a Bruni deuce, especially given his more traditional leanings.

The crowd here was also quite young, younger than most at this price point. There were a couple times when the g/f and I feared we weren't the youngest couple in the room. Thankfully, these suspicions proved false, but just for context, the the table next to us, the g/f and I, and our sever had a nice conversation about Justin Timberlake's SNL "Dick in a Box" skit--please watch this. Stuff like this doesn't happen at most of the places we eat.

The g/f and I had an appetizer each and split and entree. Then, Chef Kahn entertained us by doing two separate four-course dessert tastings, allowing us to sample most everything on the menu and two off-menu items. I'm usually aprehensive to ask for this kind of treatment, as I know it throws off the kitchen, but I wanted to try everything I could. Again, I can't say enough about Chef Kahn and his creativity, flexibility, and overall coolness. He came out to chat with us afterwards and was very easy to talk to. Sam Mason now has some competition when it comes to piquing the g/f's less-than-wholesome desires.

For appetizers, we had the "baby octopus, olive oil poached, sunchokes, salsa verde" and the "venison, Szechuan peppercorn seared loin, sheep yogurt, soy roasted quince, chesnuts." Both of these were very solid dishes and tasted damn good, but they were nothing all that new. I really enjoyed the baby octopus and thought it was a well executed and conceived dish, but it didn't move me. This isn't criticism at all, just in contrast to the pastry to come. I actually found the venison a little bit less enjoyable but more interesting. The soy roasted quince had a very interesting, deep, salty flavor and the yogurt brought a nice amount of acidity to the dish. Unfortunately, I didn't taste the Szechuan peppercorns on the venison itself.

For our main, we shared the pork, roasted & cider-tobacco braised belly, celery root puree, baby collards. This was a good dish that could've been made very good with via sous vide for the roasted loin component. The loin was cooked very nicely and had enough flavor but was simply not tender enough. A little bath would've eliminated that problem and would've brought the loin to the level of the very tasty and meltingly soft belly. I think I tasted the tobacco, but I'm not sure.

The desserts simply must be tried, as they're much too complex to analyze in this type of setting. With that said, I found myself wanting to apply many of Chef Kahn's individual flavor profiles and condiments to my own savory cooking. At times, I felt as if individual components did not stand out as much as I would have liked, but this did not necessarily detract from the dishes themselves. The only dish we were not able to try was the "Celery Root Abstract"--due to a kitchen mishap according to Chef Kahn--with the already infamous cherry wood ice cream. I suppose that's reason in itself for going back.

My favorite dessert was probably the "Wolfberry, lime sabayon, tonka bean, broken macaroons, ketjap manis." The textures and wide variety of flavors in this dish was really astounding. The ketjap manis is such a cool condiment, I want to use it on everything; think savory licorice or something. The mushroom caramel on the "Chocolate Gel" was also incredibly tasty as it combined sweet with umami in a very clear but appealing way. Visions of this with pork tenderloin are dancing through my head. The "Absinthe" was the only dish that I wasn't in love with, primarily because of a bad experience with the stuff that still makes me nauseous to this day. That Chef Kahn was able to serve something absinthe-like without triggering nauseous seizures is a testament to his abilities. The "White Chocolate Cubism" is a beautiful plate that speaks more toward my aesthetic leanings, but I must say that Chef Kahn's plates are more striking in person than they are in pictures.

Please go, support modern cooking; it's easy with pastry this tasty. Although people have given a lot of shit to Chef Goldfarb for being too out there or something totally untrue like that, it is Chef Kahn's dishes that require more attention and an open(er)-mind. This is not to detract from either chef, as they're both clearly doing their own thing, but as more modern pastry perspectives flow into the city hopefully more people will be willing to explore.

[Sneakeater]

FWIW, I completely agree with you that Jordan Kahn's desserts are more "out there" than Will Goldfarb's.

That's why I, personally, prefer Chef Goldfarb's. But that's a statement of preference, not a critical judgment. I think people who care about this kind of thing owe it to themselves to try both.

[tan319]

I like the Phrase "open mind", Spot On!

[FoodPassion]

I like the Phrase "open mind", Spot On!

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Open minded is a good thing. How many more years of boring desserts must we have before changing to different dishes??? It's like in the field of art: the renaissance, classic, neoclassic, gothic, modernism, etc. I'm tired, and I know many of you are also tired of the usual desserts: creme brulee, chocolate cake with raspberries, tortes, pies, etc. I think this world is ready for the new movement in desserts. I guess "Avant Guard Movement" might be a good name - I don't know. But I do feel that as awesome as Chef Kahn's innovating desserts are, I say let's move on and evolutionize the dessert industry!

[fauxtarga]

Just went last night - had a superb meal, it was best I've eaten in a while (celery root was definitely a highlight). It helps that the menu was full of ingredients and preparations that I'm a big fan of.

The service, also - was great - but seeing as the girlfriend and I eat at somewhat strange times we had the dining room to ourselves for most of the meal it may not have been a typical experience.

Which kind of brings me to my point, which is, I hope that the restaurant hasn't been too badly maligned by asshat's like this: http://www.nypost.com/seven/12202006/enter...teve_cuozzo.htm

I wish these guys all the best. And will definitely be back to eat my way through the dessert menu.

[docsconz]

Just went last night - had a superb meal, it was best I've eaten in a while (celery root was definitely a highlight). It helps that the menu was full of ingredients and preparations that I'm a big fan of.

The service, also - was great - but seeing as the girlfriend and I eat at somewhat strange times we had the dining room to ourselves for most of the meal it may not have been a typical experience.

Which kind of brings me to my point, which is, I hope that the restaurant hasn't been too badly maligned by asshat's like this: http://www.nypost.com/seven/12202006/enter...teve_cuozzo.htm

I wish these guys all the best. And will definitely be back to eat my way through the dessert menu.

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I agree with your assessment. If Cuozzo has never heard of tonka beans before or several of the other ingredients he mentioned, I wonder where he has been and what he has been eating? That is one of the most ridiculously biased and ill-informed pieces of food journalism that I have ever read.

[abola]

Just went last night - had a superb meal, it was best I've eaten in a while (celery root was definitely a highlight). It helps that the menu was full of ingredients and preparations that I'm a big fan of.

The service, also - was great - but seeing as the girlfriend and I eat at somewhat strange times we had the dining room to ourselves for most of the meal it may not have been a typical experience.

Which kind of brings me to my point, which is, I hope that the restaurant hasn't been too badly maligned by asshat's like this: http://www.nypost.com/seven/12202006/enter...teve_cuozzo.htm

I wish these guys all the best. And will definitely be back to eat my way through the dessert menu.

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I agree with your assessment. If Cuozzo has never heard of tonka beans before or several of the other ingredients he mentioned, I wonder where he has been and what he has been eating? That is one of the most ridiculously biased and ill-informed pieces of food journalism that I have ever read.

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Boy oh boy. Mizuna and maitake mushrooms- how "obscure". I just saw mizuna and maitake mushrooms at Whole Foods. Perhaps soon they will even get fda approval and sell those tonka beans next to the vanilla. Cheers Mr. C..................?

[Nathan]

just wow!

he didn't even know what maitake are (um, you can buy them at Trader Joe's for heaven's sake!).

may I suggest that inveterate Bruni-bashers allow him at least one commendation -- that he is not Cuozzo! (who clearly is the worst professional critic in NY, even over Adam Platt)

in fact, might as well lump him in with Ashby Stiff among the worst food critics writing for MSM anywhere...

(there are food bloggers that are even worse but at least they're not working for someone....)

Edited January 17, 2007 by Nathan (log)

[JohnL]

just wow!

he didn't even know what maitake are (um, you can buy them at Trader Joe's for heaven's sake!).

may I suggest that inveterate Bruni-bashers allow him at least one commendation -- that he is not Cuozzo!  (who clearly is the worst professional critic in NY, even over Adam Platt)

in fact, might as well lump him in with Ashby Stiff among the worst food critics writing for MSM anywhere...

(there are food bloggers that are even worse but at least they're not working for someone....)

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I read through this thread with some interest. the original post with great photos presented some interesting looking dishes.

Then Cuozzo's piece.

I read this with interest as well. I believe that we may be missing the point or worse ignoring it. I feel he was quite clear in what he was saying or rather, asking.

First, Cuozzo offers some praise for the restaurant citing "obvious talent" in the kitchen and noting it is too early to render a final judgment (full review?).

The issue he is raising is IMOP a very valid one (I seem to ask this myself more often these days). Are many chefs adding/using ingredients for the sake of trying to be new or "cutting edge"? To offer diners new taste experiences in a quest to wow. And more importantly, are these ingredients more gratuitous than integral to the flavor of the dish?

and most importantly, do they work?

I still believe that truly great cooking produces dishes where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. The real question re; the tonka beans is what do they contribute to the dish in which they are used?

Cuozzo is also on target in asking why the wine list here also offers obscure wines that are often not very good. I also find this trend disturbing. I am getting the feeling that some restaurants are constructing wine lists for affect rather than effect. That is we have a rash of young sommeliers who seem to want to wow people with their knowledge offering obscure wines rather than wines that actually work with the cuisine. (obscurity is in and of itself not a reason to place a wine on the list).

I think the problem with Cuozzo's piece is he is using this restaurant to make some larger points. In perusing the menu the issues Cuozzo raises are more pertinent to the desert list not the main courses which aside from the use of tobacco in one dish seems to me to be pretty straight forward. I think his broad brush is a bit unfair to the restaurant overall.

The deserts do appear to be bizarre. Not itself a crime but it does prompt the question do these flavors really work?

Restaurants cooking is always moving (in many directions) chefs are always on the lookout for ingredients and techniques--sometimes they work and endure and sometimes they are a fad that quickly fades. I recall nouvelle cuisine's use of vanilla in lobster preparations. Yes, one or two supremely talented chefs may have made this work but diners suffered the trend when less talented folks applied the combination to their work. Actually, i am not so sure about the one or two talented chefs--this was and is IMOP a bad idea. Cooking moved on and one rarely sees this culinary mistake any more.

In the end, I think Cuozzo is asking some interesting and very valid questions. Rather than attempt to denigrate and devalue them by questioning his knowledge the discussion here would be better served, I think, if these issues were dealt with on their face value. getting hung up over whether or not he is "dissing" a restaurant is a secondary issue at best.

[Nathan]

if you don't know what maitake are you shouldn't be writing food criticism, let alone being paid to do it. period. not in the 21st century.

its really that simple.

of course, the really amusing part is that Cuozzo presumably has no problem with maitake when they are labeled "hen of the woods" at Craft or Hearth. in other words, he's just ignorant.

as for avant garde cuisine, those concerns are best raised in threads about truly avant garde restaurants like WD-50 (which I do think is sometimes too cerebral for its own good) or Moto, or semi-avant garde restaurants like Alinea. Varietal is actually pretty conservative.

Edited January 17, 2007 by Nathan (log)

[oakapple]

if you don't know what maitake are you shouldn't be writing food criticism, let alone being paid to do it.

I don't like to make blanket statements, but among the major NYC critics, I've found Cuozzo the one I'm least likely to agree with.

as for avant garde cuisine, those concerns are best raised in threads about truly avant garde restaurants like WD-50 (which I do think is sometimes too cerebral for its own good) or Moto, or semi-avant garde restaurants like Alinea.  Varietal is actually pretty conservative.

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By NYC standards, the desserts at Varietal are pretty far out there, and couldn't be called conservative in any sense. Conservative is apple pie, cheesecake, and peach melba.

[Nathan]

the menu as a whole is relatively conservative.

the desserts are avant-garde, yes, but no more so than those at Room4Dessert, WD-50, or even JG.

[JohnL]

if you don't know what maitake are you shouldn't be writing food criticism, let alone being paid to do it.  period. not in the 21st century.

its really that simple.

of course, the really amusing part is that Cuozzo presumably has no problem with maitake when they are labeled "hen of the woods" at Craft or Hearth.  in other words, he's just ignorant.

as for avant garde cuisine, those concerns are best raised in threads about truly avant garde restaurants like WD-50 (which I do think is sometimes too cerebral for its own good) or Moto, or semi-avant garde restaurants like Alinea.  Varietal is actually pretty conservative.

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First, there is no indication in the piece that Cuozzo does not personally know what these items are. He is making a point--that most diners do not know what they are. In fact, more would know them as hen of the woods though I would posit that the vast majority of diners would not even know hen of the woods. By the way bet even most gourmands don't know they are also known as "grifola frondosa."

Cuozzo is not wring solely for a tiny group of gourmands or foodies. The Post and the Times are not The Art of Eating.

Second, attempting to discredit Cuozzo via his credentials (knowledge) still ignores any larger points he is making. Those remain valid and largely ignored.

Third, Cuozzo and his arguments entered this thread as they apply to the restaurant in question--Varietal. The fact is, as I noted, the main courses at varietal are not particularly avant garde but the desert menu most certainly is (or at least it is anything but conventional). Most of Cuozzo's questions are focused on the deserts. (and the wine list, he could have used more examples than the one offered).

[oakapple]

the menu as a whole is relatively conservative.

Compared to what? I mean, if you call this conservative, then you're not really leaving much room for Le Veau d'Or.

A more reasonable statement is that the main courses are slightly to the left of center, as opposed to the desserts, which are pretty far out there. I mean, how many places are serving tobacco-braised pork?

the desserts are avant-garde, yes, but no more so than those at Room4Dessert, WD-50, or even JG.

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There are only a handful of places in town doing this kind of thing, including WD-50, R4D, and not many others. The desserts at JG, superb as they are, are not remotely in the same genre.

[JohnL]

if you don't know what maitake are you shouldn't be writing food criticism, let alone being paid to do it.

I don't like to make blanket statements, but among the major NYC critics, I've found Cuozzo the one I'm least likely to agree with.

as for avant garde cuisine, those concerns are best raised in threads about truly avant garde restaurants like WD-50 (which I do think is sometimes too cerebral for its own good) or Moto, or semi-avant garde restaurants like Alinea.  Varietal is actually pretty conservative.

←

By NYC standards, the desserts at Varietal are pretty far out there, and couldn't be called conservative in any sense. Conservative is apple pie, cheesecake, and peach melba.

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A good critic IMOP is not "good" based on whether or not I happen to agree with him or her. Rather do they provoke thought and discussion.

I agree that Varietal is not a traditional or conservative restaurant by any means. The main dishes are let's say--less avant garde than the deserts.

This is another question one must ask--does this restaurant work as a whole? Does it live up to its pretensions? What exactly are those pretensions?

[rich]

I haven't eaten at Varietal, so I can't comment on the food or desserts, But I have had Tonka Beans (don't ask, don' tell) and there are miserable. I can't imagine any use for them.

That said, I understand Cuozzo's point if he's saying that some restaurants are using ingredients just for the sake of being different - or referring to them by their less-known names. I could see how this may be getting out of hand.

But where he does have a totally valid point is the wine list. That I have seen, and it's loaded with obscure wines - and of the ones I have tasted, there's nothing there I would reach for again.

If you're going to name a place Varietal, I would think the wines should be serviceable with the food. I'm not saying they should avoid small, hard to find or little-known producers, but those wines should be drinkable and match some of the food on the menu. Check out Bern's wine list on-line if there's an interest in looking at an in-depth selection of large, small and little-known producers.

Edited January 17, 2007 by rich (log)

[Sneakeater]

the menu as a whole is relatively conservative.

the desserts are avant-garde, yes, but no more so than those at Room4Dessert, WD-50, or even JG.

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I think there's a severe disjunction between the savory menu and the dessert menu. It's almost like two different restaurants. I don't think you can say anything about the "menu as a whole" here.

Edited January 17, 2007 by Sneakeater (log)

[Nathan]

"First, there is no indication in the piece that Cuozzo does not personally know what these items are. He is making a point--that most diners do not know what they are."

This might be valid if it wasn't for the patent fact that there are literally zillions of NY restaurants using these, or every bit as obscure, ingredients and people manage to patronize these places. They might be valid if it wasn't for the fact that people are purchasing mushrooms labeled "maitake" at Trader Joes and Whole Foods...

edit: besides, it is clear that he doesn't know what they are. otherwise he would have identified the "maitake" as "hen of the woods" for less-informed readers.

I might be prone to giving Cuozzo's opinions some thought if he had shown the slightest awareness that Jordan Kahn had worked with Alex Stupak on the desserts at Alinea, the most important restaurant in the country right now.

As for the desserts....I don't know..is using eggplant or tonka beans anymore "out there" than Meredith Kurtzman using olive oil and rock salt or sweet corn in gelato at Otto for the last five years? What about the candied violets at Perry Street? The numerous savory ingredients that have crept their way into dessert menus at major restaurants across the city over the last three years? (If you don't believe me try reading some menus.) Sure, Kahn, Goldfarb, Mason and Stupak do this at a more sustained level than the dessert menus at other restaurants (where they generally have plenty of "safe" desserts to go along with the "interesting" ones...)...but it is being done all over the place.

For that matter, Goldfarb and Mason have laid the groundwork over the last six years...its not like Kahn is the first on the scene. for that matter, as I suggested above, Johnny Iuzzini's desserts are edgy at times as well -- (yes, he does plenty of "safe" stuff too).

my problem with Cuozzo is that he seems completely oblivious to any of this. his comments on Varietal seem to take place in a vacuum.

as for my thoughts on the wine list at Varietal -- see my review up the thread.

Edited January 17, 2007 by Nathan (log)

[Sneakeater]

I'm not wanting to be an apologist for Cuozzo, but in the context of writing for the Post, I'm not sure that a reference to Alinea would have been appropriate. And FWIW, I'll bet money Cuozzo has heard of Alinea and knows Kahn has worked there.

[docsconz]

if you don't know what maitake are you shouldn't be writing food criticism, let alone being paid to do it.  period. not in the 21st century.

its really that simple.

of course, the really amusing part is that Cuozzo presumably has no problem with maitake when they are labeled "hen of the woods" at Craft or Hearth.  in other words, he's just ignorant.

as for avant garde cuisine, those concerns are best raised in threads about truly avant garde restaurants like WD-50 (which I do think is sometimes too cerebral for its own good) or Moto, or semi-avant garde restaurants like Alinea.  Varietal is actually pretty conservative.

←

First, there is no indication in the piece that Cuozzo does not personally know what these items are. He is making a point--that most diners do not know what they are. In fact, more would know them as hen of the woods though I would posit that the vast majority of diners would not even know hen of the woods. By the way bet even most gourmands don't know they are also known as "grifola frondosa."

Cuozzo is not wring solely for a tiny group of gourmands or foodies. The Post and the Times are not The Art of Eating.

Second, attempting to discredit Cuozzo via his credentials (knowledge) still ignores any larger points he is making. Those remain valid and largely ignored.

Third, Cuozzo and his arguments entered this thread as they apply to the restaurant in question--Varietal. The fact is, as I noted, the main courses at varietal are not particularly avant garde but the desert menu most certainly is (or at least it is anything but conventional). Most of Cuozzo's questions are focused on the deserts. (and the wine list, he could have used more examples than the one offered).

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Your questions and what Cuozzo wrote are two completely different things. His language is not meant to question in any constructive way - his argument was that the ingredients used are "weird" as in why would anyone ver care to eat things like these, of which he focused primarily on tonka beans, an ingredient he apparently was unfamiliar with before his visit to Varietal.

In fact, I've never run into a tonka bean in eight years of covering restaurants. They are so obscure that they don't even appear on epicurious .com's thousands of food listings.

Funny thing is, this is an ingredient that has been used in a number of high end, creative restaurants both here in NYC, the US and abroad. I first came across them at Can Roca in Spain. I have subsequently had them at several restaurants in NYC and in the US. Though not ubiquitous, they have been used mostly by creative pastry chefs and do require a deft hand (and an open mind by the diner). That he has never experienced them in his 8 years of professional restaurant criticism makes me question either his veracity or the level of his experience with this style of dining. A particular ingredient may or may not work in particular dishes or in particular hands, but his attitude displayed in this article onnotes a disdain for anything unusual or "weird."

As for denigrating the wine list, unless one has experienced the wines with the food (especially in a creative restaurant), it is my experience that it is difficult to really have an idea as to how well the wines will work and whether the list is well constructed or not. I agree that obscurity for its own sake is not a particular benefit, but if the obscure wines do in fact work well with the cuisine, it adds an additional element of fun, especially if the wines are priced reasonably and fairly.

He has and is entitled to his opinion with how well the combinations on either end of the kitchen work. One thing that this article told me is that I can rely on his palate and my own as being in disagreement. If I really cared about his writing I would go back to see what other restaurants he panned and why to find some that I might like.

[Nathan]

if that's the case don't you think it should have been mentioned in the review? Kahn's name wasn't even mentioned.