Portuguese batard

[polack]

I had a loaf of Portuguese batard today that was bought from the local supermarket and it was very good. It was the size of a baguette, lite in color, and had a very holey inside texture. What I would like to know is what type of flour is used, because it's different than the flour I'm using to make it such a lite color, and would the sourdough starter be useful in making this bread? i also had the Portuguese rolls and they to were very good, they were also lite in color and very holey. Basically, any recipes for these items?

Polack

Edited October 24, 2004 by polack (log)

[Redsugar]

On another culinary forum, I recently posted this recipe for Broa….

This yeast bread has the wholesome rustic flavor & texture that goes particularly well with hearty soups – such as Caldo Verde.

3 cups yellow cornmeal

2 tsp salt

16 fl. oz. boiling water

1 fl. oz. olive oil

2 tsp granulated sugar

4 fl. oz. lukewarm water

2 Tbsp active dry yeast

approx. 3½ cups bread flour

In processor, whir cornmeal until finely ground. In large bowl, stir together 2 cups of the processed cornmeal, salt, and boiling water until smooth. Stir in oil & let cool until lukewarm.

Meanwhile, in glass measure, dissolve sugar in lukewarm water; sprinkle yeast into water and let stand for 5-8 minutes. Stir yeast mixure vigorously with fork, then stir it into cornmeal mixture. Gradually mix in remaining cornmeal & 2 cups flour. (Dough should be soft & sticky.) Gather into ball, place in lightly oiled bowl, turning to coat, and cover the bowl with a tea towel. Let rise in warm place for about 30 minutes, or until doubled in bulk (a heating pad on low setting placed under bowl works well for some bakers).

Deflate dough and turn out onto lightly floured worksurface; knead for about 6-8 minutes, adding flour to make firm but soft dough.

Divide dough in half and shape each portion into rounded 6-inch circle. Place on lined baking sheets; cover and let rise in warm place for 30 minutes, or until almost doubled in bulk. Bake in 350° oven for 40 minutes, or until loaves test done. Transfer to wire grid.

An online recipe (depicting the loaf shaped as a large baguette) is also available.

[polack]

On another culinary forum, I recently posted this recipe for Broa?.

This yeast bread has the wholesome rustic flavor & texture that goes particularly well with hearty soups ? such as Caldo Verde.

3 cups yellow cornmeal

2 tsp salt

16 fl. oz. boiling water

1 fl. oz. olive oil

2 tsp granulated sugar

4 fl. oz. lukewarm water

2 Tbsp active dry yeast

approx. 3½ cups bread flour

In processor, whir cornmeal until finely ground. In large bowl, stir together 2 cups of the processed cornmeal, salt, and boiling water until smooth. Stir in oil & let cool until lukewarm.

Meanwhile, in glass measure, dissolve sugar in lukewarm water; sprinkle yeast into water and let stand for 5-8 minutes. Stir yeast mixure vigorously with fork, then stir it into cornmeal mixture. Gradually mix in remaining cornmeal & 2 cups flour. (Dough should be soft & sticky.) Gather into ball, place in lightly oiled bowl, turning to coat, and cover the bowl with a tea towel. Let rise in warm place for about 30 minutes, or until doubled in bulk (a heating pad on low setting placed under bowl works well for some bakers).

Deflate dough and turn out onto lightly floured worksurface; knead for about 6-8 minutes, adding flour to make firm but soft dough.

Divide dough in half and shape each portion into rounded 6-inch circle. Place on lined baking sheets; cover and let rise in warm place for 30 minutes, or until almost doubled in bulk. Bake in 350° oven for 40 minutes, or until loaves test done. Transfer to wire grid.

An online recipe (depicting the loaf shaped as a large baguette) is also available.

←

I would say this is not the Portuguese Batard I got from Price Chopper supermarket. The bread and rolls they sell are very light and the color, when baked, is more whitish. They have excellent flavor and texture. What I need to know is how do they keep the bread so lite colored and would there be a recipe to be had?

Polack

[McDuff]

Take close look at the ingredients on said batard. Is azodicarbamide(or whatever the hell it is) included? I'm not familiar with Price Chopper, but I'd bet bagels to bialys that with a name like that you're getting some quality chopped somewhere along the line. If the ingredients list a whole slew of jaw-breaking chemical names then they are using dough conditioners which basically eliminate bulk fermentation, which we all know is detrimental to flavor and structure, so that they can literally pump this bread out. Conditioners make it possible to run dough through shaping machines and extruders and all kinds of nasty, ugly stuff. It's the exact opposite of artisanal bread...bizarro bread, as Jerry would say.

[polack]

Take close look at the ingredients on said batard. Is azodicarbamide(or whatever the hell it is) included? I'm not familiar with Price Chopper, but I'd bet bagels to bialys that with a name like that you're getting some quality chopped somewhere along the line. If the ingredients list a whole slew of jaw-breaking chemical names then they are using dough conditioners which basically eliminate bulk fermentation, which we all know is detrimental to flavor and structure, so that they can literally pump this bread out. Conditioners make it possible to run dough through shaping machines and extruders and all kinds of nasty, ugly stuff. It's the exact opposite of artisanal bread...bizarro bread, as Jerry would say.

←

McDuff, here's the ingredience for the loaf, enriched bleach flower, water, salt, yeast, centrobake deoiled licithin, absorbic acid (asvitamin c), enzymes. I would say you're right when it comes to pumping out bread, they do make quite a bit. It's a shame that there aren't many good bakeries in this area to go to anymore, it seems like the big supermarkets have taken over, not only the little stores, but also the bakeries. I could remember when I was a young lad, you had the local grocer that you shopped at, and you always had a host of bakeries that always competed against each other, claiming to have the best baked goods in town. Now it's zippo. That's why I took the hobby up of baking bread, kind of late in my life but if you want something good you have to do it yourself.

Polack

[jackal10]

Lets see... the bleached flour will make the colour lighter. Don't know why they use bleached flour for this product, since the original artisanal bread has cornmeal in it and is quite yellow.

The leicithin is an emulsifier, that allows shorter mixing and proof times, and better shelf life; Since its after the salt it will be less than 2%, and usually about 1%, unless in a gluten-free bread.

Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) is an anti-oxidant and flour improver; it counteracts an enzyme that cross-links the gluten.

Looks like quite a reasonable ingredient list for a basic machine-made bread, designed to look "rustic". However its a long way from the original Broa with cornmeal, except maybe in shape...

[polack]

Lets see... the bleached flour will make the colour lighter. Don't know why they use bleached flour for this product, since the original artisanal bread has cornmeal in it and is quite yellow.

The leicithin is an emulsifier,  that allows shorter mixing and proof times, and better shelf life; Since its after the salt it will be less than 2%, and usually about 1%, unless in a gluten-free bread.

Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) is an anti-oxidant and flour improver; it counteracts an enzyme that cross-links the gluten.

Looks like quite a reasonable ingredient list for a basic machine-made bread, designed to look "rustic". However its a long way from the original Broa with cornmeal, except maybe in shape...

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Jackal, you're the man, it seems when there's something to know about making bread you and a few other experts sure can give everyone an answer. Now would the sourdough starter be allright to use for making the broa?

[Chloe]

Then again, to state the obvious, broa is broa - heavy, rough cornmeal bread with or without rye. Whilst "Portuguese bread" is more or less bread as we all know it and, outside Portugal, it could be anything under the sun. Even within Portugal basic bread varies quite strongly from region to region.

A broa normally starts off as a large, heavy, round object, and is sold by the weight in more or less irregular pieces.

Broa also shouldn't be confused with broas/ broinhas which are various bready little cakey things, frequently made around Christmas time.

Chloe

North Portugal

[jackal10]

I've never had an original broa, but I'm sure there are people on this list who can answer as to its authenticity.

However, I'd expect a sourdough version would be delicious, and since modern yeasts are a comparatively recent invention, I'm sure something like that was made in Portugal at some time.

Whether authentic or not, it would be your Broa, and a fine thing in its own right.

[johnnyd]

Sounds to me like polack might be getting the same "portuguese rolls" product that we're getting at our Shaw's/Hannaford supers here in Maine. It has a resemblance to the "Papo Seco" we used to buy in the Algarve, just less flavour and a bit less dense. These are being made in the Boston area.

On a related note, the "Portuguese Sweet Bread" sold in it's usually round shape charges up as Hallah at the check-out...

Chloe: Is Broa the same as "Integral", the dense cracked wheat breadlets I fondly remember? I don't recall Integral with cornmeal though...

[Redsugar]

Portuguese bread has a thick crust and is moist & chewy on the inside. Perusing my home library, I have found numerous recipes for an assortment of Portuguese yeast breads: Pao Doce, Paposecos, Bolihnos de canela, Bolos Levedos (shaped like a huge English muffin), golden-crusted Massa Sovada (with an interior similar to a dense, rich Madeira cake), and Broas de Torresmos de Souzel (from Maria Odette Cortes’ Cozinha Regional Portuguese) which is also known as “crackling cake” – a rich, dark brown, sweet & spicy bread. Also Bôlo Rei (in the Time/Life Spain & Portugal). Moreover, Jean Anderson offers about a dozen bread recipes in her book, The Food of Portugal.

I recall having read, many years ago, an excoriating wine review, in which the critic offered "nightmare" as the most appropriate accompaniment to the bottle under discussion. I shall concur with McDuff's remark, supra, that bread baked in supermarkets is "bizarro bread." Chemicial-filled balloons that might be served with that wicked wine. I am usually quite reluctant to speak in derisory terms about food, but this time it's warrranted.

Nevertheless, I hope one of us can produce a recipe that will approximate the type of Portuguese bread sought by the thread starter.

[Jadrool]

I’m making broa for this Sunday and the recipes I’ve seen use a regular sponge method with what seems to me to be a lot of yeast. Having recently had my eyes opened to the word of pre-ferments and cold fermentations, I'm wondering if it desirable to take the broa recipe I want to use (most likely from Jane Anderson's Food of Portugal) and attempt to convert it to one using a slower, cooler initial fermentation period. If so, are there rules of thumb about converting recipes?

[bethesdabakers]

If you intend converting the recipe to using a naturally leavened starter (sourdough), this is the way I do it.

It assumes you have a starter at 100% hydration (equal quantities of flour and water) and refresh it twice before mixing your dough. This calculation assumes a starter at 15% of dough weight (not baker’s percentage). You might want to increase that as high as 30%.

Take your yeasted recipe and add up the total amount of flour and the total amount of liquid, add the two together and call that the dough weight. Assuming you want to use starter at 15% of dough weight, calculate what 15% is, halve the amount and deduct that from the flour and from the liquid.

For example, say the recipe has 1000g flour and 600g water – dough weight = 1600g (forget about salt, etc.). 15% of 1600g = 240g = weight of starter (which is made up of equal weights of flour and water). So deduct half of this, 120g from the weight of flour = 880g, and the same for the water = 480g.

So your recipe becomes: flour 880g + water 480g + starter 240g = 1600g.

Then work your starter back two refreshments. If you use the same method as me - 1st refreshment = 1 starter + 2 flour + 2 water; 2nd refreshment = 5 starter (total of 1st refreshment) + 5 flour and 5 water = 15. Divide the starter in the final dough, 240g, by 15 = 16g.

So it works out as:

1st refreshment – starter 16g + flour 32g + water 32g = 80g.

2nd refreshment – starter 80g + flour 80g + water 80g = 240g.

Bloody brilliant that – I worked it all out myself (took a week to recover).

Go on, tell me you were after a yeasted preferment after all that.

Best wishes,

Mick

[slbunge]

If you intend converting the recipe to using a naturally leavened starter (sourdough), this is the way I do it.

<snip>

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Cool. Thanks for doing that. I predict I'll have a flour covered calculator by the end of the weekend.

[bethesdabakers]

Well I forgot to add, every kitchen should have a large calculator (mine came free from a Brit mail order office supplier) wrapped in cling film.

Could have been a concert pianist.

Best wishes,

Mick

[Jadrool]

Bloody brilliant that

Bloody brilliant it is. Thank you very much.

[KarenS]

I have worked with many "heritage" Portuguese recipes. I have noticed a frequent use of potato flour/ starch. I can help you with sweetbread or malasadas- I would have to taste or see this bread.