Franny's

[Nathan]

... they should jettison that ridiculous no cutting policy.

I have to say I've never understood this. Uncut single-sized pizza has been standard in Italy since forever, and no one seems to have any trouble with it.

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1. I expect better customer service in the U.S. then in Italy.

2. these pies aren't single-sized.

[ulterior epicure]

... they should jettison that ridiculous no cutting policy.

I have to say I've never understood this. Uncut single-sized pizza has been standard in Italy since forever, and no one seems to have any trouble with it.

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The pies in Italy aren't as large as the ones at Franny's. More importantly, the ones in Italy are served on a platter that is bigger than the pizza, which makes cutting immensely easier (i.e. Franny's pizzas are hanging over the edge of the plate.

Edited to add: Cross-posted with Nathan.

Edited June 23, 2008 by ulterior epicure (log)

[ulterior epicure]

one flaw that you notice when trying everything as opposed to a normal dinner:  they use very similar preparations for most of the contorini...a lot of the vinegar, oil and lemon thing.  it gets old pretty quickly.  but then it's unusual to try virtually all of them at once.  but it does show some culinary limitation.

I'm glad you mentioned this; I noticed this as well, although I wouldn't say that this is a flaw, necessarily. The acid + oil + salt is a sure-fire dressing, and the ratio at Franny's (something like 5 acid: 3 oil: 2 salt) is bracingly good.

[Nathan]

it becomes a flaw when you're trying a bunch of them.

[slkinsey]

... they should jettison that ridiculous no cutting policy.

I have to say I've never understood this. Uncut single-sized pizza has been standard in Italy since forever, and no one seems to have any trouble with it.

1. I expect better customer service in the U.S. then in Italy.

2. these pies aren't single-sized.

1. I don't know why, since that certainly doesn't reflect my experience.

2. Yes, they are.

... they should jettison that ridiculous no cutting policy.

I have to say I've never understood this. Uncut single-sized pizza has been standard in Italy since forever, and no one seems to have any trouble with it.

The pies in Italy aren't as large as the ones at Franny's. More importantly, the ones in Italy are served on a platter that is bigger than the pizza, which makes cutting immensely easier (i.e. Franny's pizzas are hanging over the edge of the plate.

I've consumed dozens upon dozens of pizze in Italy, and my experience does not accord with either of your claims. Neapolitan style pizze are typically right around the same size as those served at Franny's, and I wouldn't say that it is typical to serve them on plates that are substantially larger than the pizza. Rather, I would say that it's typical to serve them on a flat plate with little or no rim that is right around the same size as the pizza. A brief image search for "pizza napoletana" on Italian web sites will bring up plenty of images like this one or this one or this one, showing a pizza more or less the same size as the plate on which it is served. I would say that this is the most common. Sometimes, as with this one or perhaps this one, the plate will be slightly larger -- but I'm not sure they're so large as to provide a significant advantage. Quite commonly, as with this one or this one or this one or this one, the pizza is larger than the plate. In fact, if you look at this picture of five people eating pizza napoletana, you will see that all but one is substantially larger than the plate on which it is served. The diners don't seem to be having any difficulty, and have simply moved their pizze over to the side to create some room on the plate.

What I think it is, is that Americans are used to eating pizza in slices with their hands.

Edited June 23, 2008 by slkinsey (log)

[ulterior epicure]

What I think it is, is that Americans are used to eating pizza in slices with their hands.

Agreed. More to the point; in my experience, it was a group of people sharing a (or more than one) pizza.

[ulterior epicure]

... they should jettison that ridiculous no cutting policy.

I have to say I've never understood this. Uncut single-sized pizza has been standard in Italy since forever, and no one seems to have any trouble with it.

1. I expect better customer service in the U.S. then in Italy.

2. these pies aren't single-sized.

1. I don't know why, since that certainly doesn't reflect my experience.

2. Yes, they are.

... they should jettison that ridiculous no cutting policy.

I have to say I've never understood this. Uncut single-sized pizza has been standard in Italy since forever, and no one seems to have any trouble with it.

The pies in Italy aren't as large as the ones at Franny's. More importantly, the ones in Italy are served on a platter that is bigger than the pizza, which makes cutting immensely easier (i.e. Franny's pizzas are hanging over the edge of the plate.

I've consumed dozens upon dozens of pizze in Italy, and my experience does not accord with either of your claims. Neapolitan style pizze are typically right around the same size as those served at Franny's...

Sure, I might be willing to concede that I was over-estimating the size of Franny's pizzas vis-a-vis Italian ones. But, I don't ever recall having been as bothered by the cutting in Italy as at Franny's. They even give you toothed (not butter) knives at Franny's' - you'd think that'd make things easier. But, it actually ended up tearing the crust more than slicing it. Maybe a butter knife might be better (although I've been served pizza with both toothed and butter knives in Italy)? Or, maybe I just don't have the necessary skillz... or, maybe, everything is just better in Italy.

[Sneakeater]

As someone who's there A LOT, I would just note that typically Franny's pies are consumed on a one-pie-to-a-person basis. That's certainly always been the kitchen's intent.

(That said, I too find the pies to be a pain to cut.)

Edited June 23, 2008 by Sneakeater (log)

[slkinsey]

I think they use a harder-than-optimal (for me) flour at Franny's. This allows them to get a very thin crust with a good chew (as opposed to the more tender typical Neapolitan crust), but can make it a little more difficult to cut. I don't mind it. For me, it's part of the fun.

[ulterior epicure]

I think they use a harder-than-optimal (for me) flour at Franny's.  This allows them to get a very thin crust with a good chew (as opposed to the more tender typical Neapolitan crust), but can make it a little more difficult to cut.  I don't mind it.  For me, it's part of the fun.

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Okay, so I might as well come out and confess: The fact that we were a party of five salivating adults hovering over one pizza and trying to cut it to portion might have been the source of my frustration - not the fact that we had to cut it. That the pizza kept tearing was particularly bothersome at the time.

So, right, given the proper way of eating a pizza (i.e. one pizza, one person), I suppose Franny's pizzas aren't any more annoying than pizzas in Italy; although I do wish they'd get flatter/larger plates (at Franny's).

Edited June 23, 2008 by ulterior epicure (log)

[Nathan]

if those are single pies...than you're not eating anything else there...which is kind of pointless.

[Sneakeater]

Okay, so I might as well come out and confess:  The fact that we were a party of five salivating adults hovering over one pizza and trying to cut it to portion might have been the source of my frustration - not the fact that we had to cut it.  That the pizza kept tearing was particularly bothersome at the time. 

So, right, given the proper way of eating a pizza (i.e. one pizza, one person), I suppose Franny's pizzas aren't any more annoying than pizzas in Italy; although I do wish they'd get flatter/larger plates (at Franny's).

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There's a point there: if you cut Franny's pies into four quarters (as you -- or at least I -- do when you're eating them yourself) (or at most sharing a piece with your dining companion), it's a pain, but not so bad.

It becomes a big problem mainly when you try to cut a pie into eighths, to be split among a big group. Then the pieces tend to get ripped to shreds.

But, again, the kitchen INTENDS that the pies be eaten individually. When they first opened, they made a big deal of explaining that.

Edited June 23, 2008 by Sneakeater (log)

[Sneakeater]

if those are single pies...than you're not eating anything else there...which is kind of pointless.

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The typical Franny's meal: one app/antipasto per person (and those are easy to share), and then either a pie or a pasta dish per person. That's not so daunting.

If you look at the dining room, you can see that it's not set up for groups. The huge majority of tables are two-tops.

Edited June 23, 2008 by Sneakeater (log)

[ulterior epicure]

And, Nathan, as you point out - those "antipasti" aren't very large. Maybe I'm a more avid and enthusiastic vegetable-eater than most, but I could easily take care of one order each of the artichoke, sugar snaps, pea shoots and Swiss chard on top of a pizza, if I were moderately hungry. Of course, I would have spent the equivalent of two lunches at JG doing so, but that's beside the point you're making.

[Sneakeater]

It's true that I've sometimes had two antipasti and then a pizza or pasta. I just didn't want to look like a pig by saying so.

[ulterior epicure]

It's true that I've sometimes had two antipasti and then a pizza or pasta.  I just didn't want to look like a pig by saying so.

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Don't worry, I just said it for you.

[Sneakeater]

Of course, I would have spent the equivalent of two lunches at JG doing so,

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People have ALWAYS complained -- with some justification -- about Franny's expense.

[slkinsey]

Although one would think that Una Pizza Napoletana has brought that into a bit better perspective.

A big part of what you're paying for at Franny's is all the locally-sourced produce, etc. That stuff is spendy. I'm sure there is a reason no other pizzeria in metro-NYC is doing it.

[ulterior epicure]

A big part of what you're paying for at Franny's is all the locally-sourced produce, etc.  That stuff is spendy.  I'm sure there is a reason no other pizzeria in metro-NYC is doing it.

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And, apparently, as successfully so.

[Sneakeater]

A big part of what you're paying for at Franny's is all the locally-sourced produce, etc.  That stuff is spendy.  I'm sure there is a reason no other pizzeria in metro-NYC is doing it.

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That's exactly what I always say to people who complain about the expense.

[Sneakeater]

And, Nathan, as you point out - those "antipasti" aren't very large.  Maybe I'm a more avid and enthusiastic vegetable-eater than most, but I could easily take care of one order each of the artichoke, sugar snaps, pea shoots and Swiss chard on top of a pizza, if I were moderately hungry. 

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Although I'd note that the fact that they're so similar (as Nathan points out) suggests that they don't intend you to eat a whole bunch of them together at one sitting. I agree with Nathan: if you don't order carefully, multiple antipasti at Franny's can get monotonous. (The way to avoid the monotony is not to concentrate solely on green vegetables.)

[ulterior epicure]

And, Nathan, as you point out - those "antipasti" aren't very large.  Maybe I'm a more avid and enthusiastic vegetable-eater than most, but I could easily take care of one order each of the artichoke, sugar snaps, pea shoots and Swiss chard on top of a pizza, if I were moderately hungry. 

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Although I'd note that the fact that they're so similar (as Nathan points out) suggests that they don't intend you to eat a whole bunch of them together at one sitting. I agree with Nathan: if you don't order carefully, multiple antipasti at Franny's can get monotonous. (The way to avoid the monotony is not to concentrate solely on green vegetables.)

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While I had agreed upthread with Nathan that the (nearly identical) treatment of the vegetable antipasti is rather repetitive, I repeat (from above) that: "I'm a more avid and enthusiastic vegetable-eater than most..."

I think you might underestimate how MUCH of an avid and enthusiastic vegetable eater I am.

[spaetzle_maker]

A big part of what you're paying for at Franny's is all the locally-sourced produce, etc.  That stuff is spendy.  I'm sure there is a reason no other pizzeria in metro-NYC is doing it.

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That's exactly what I always say to people who complain about the expense.

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I once stopped in at Franny's for a snack of some vegetable dishes, pizza and wine and ended up spending more than 80 dollars. That was a pretty expensive snack.

[slkinsey]

I once stopped in at Franny's for a snack of some vegetable dishes, pizza and wine and ended up spending more than 80 dollars.  That was a pretty expensive snack.

Let's reframe this...

I once stopped by Momofuku Ssäm Bar for a snack of some offal dishes, a clay pot and wine and ended up spending more than 80 dollars. That was a pretty expensive snack.

So?

[Nathan]

in my experience, neither Franny's nor Ssam Bar are good values for one person...it's just the reality of the way the dishes are portioned (and wanting to try a bunch of things)