The Herbfarm

[ExtraMSG]

Masa's had, I think, a 16 course menu for $125.  Trio's Tour de Force menu with something like 22 extremely unique courses is about the same price, I think.

The TdF is $175. Wine pairings $95.

I meant same price as the dinner at The Herbfarm, not Masa's.

I think its generally a mistake to compare the 'farm with any urban dining destination. It's simply a different kettle of fish, so to speak. Their whole aesethetic is affected by their self-image, which is definitively not urban. A more apt comparison might be a place like The Inn at Little Washington, although I've never been.

French Laundry is also a rural setting. Judging from the panoramic view on their website, I@LW does indeed seem like an appropriate comparison. Paid $105 for my excellent meal there. Fewer courses, but the courses were pretty hefty plus several courses not on the menu -- mignardises, amuse, etc.

btw. how does it work?

Is it one seating a night and everyone gets paced the same? That, too, would be an annoyance to me.

Maybe I could trade a dinner there with my wife to fix their damned website, which is a real dog with lots of broken links.

[Foodie-Girl]

The D&P Show (introductions of chef/staff/history of the restaurant) is brief...

Approximately how long was it on the night you were there? When I've gone, it's taken as much as 30 or 40 minutes. If they've pared it down significantly, that would be a positive step.

10 minutes.....15 tops.

[tighe]

btw. how does it work?

Is it one seating a night and everyone gets paced the same? That, too, would be an annoyance to me.

Yes, it's one seating and everyone is served at the same time. One disadvatage of their larger space is that it takes long enough to serve everyone that by the time the last people are served, those served first are often almost finished with the course. Overall, the pacing is...uhhh....leisurely....probably too much so for my taste.

[ExtraMSG]

Well, I guess one could admire them for their....uh....bold defiance of restaurant trends or tradition. It was bad enough taking 3-4 hours plus at meals in SF where apparently people are fine wait and wait between courses. Never seen that before in my US travels, so consistent a disregard for the pace of the individual diners. My ass got sore on that trip (not just fatter).

If I go to the Herbfarm, I'll have to remember a book. Luckily, my wife is reading The Lord of the Rings so she probably wouldn't be able to finish that during one of their meals. Maybe I could bring Larousse. I might make it.

[MGLloyd]

The D&P Show (introductions of chef/staff/history of the restaurant) is brief...

Approximately how long was it on the night you were there? When I've gone, it's taken as much as 30 or 40 minutes. If they've pared it down significantly, that would be a positive step.

When we were there on the 9th, the D&P took 13 minutes, and we were out of there by 10:45. Now mind you, we were yakking with the other couples at the European table, and if we had wanted to get out quicker, we could have been gone by 10:15 or so.

The last time we were there was back in the early summer (Rogue Reds and Pirate Booty), we ate on a Sunday so dinner started at 6 pm, the house was full, and the meal took five hours.

[Foodie-Girl]

RE: Lengthy dinners....Herbfarm, Charlie Trotters and other restaurants with multi-course menus let diners know ahead of time to expect a 4-hour evening..or whatever. If this is not to your liking you can choose not to dine there.

We spent a week in San Francisco recently and, even when ordering the tasting menu as Masa's it was easy enough to tell a small white lie in that we were meeting another couple for an after dinner drink in 2 hours and would it be possible to have our dinner completed within that time frame.

If you're in a hurry to eat try the Pre-Theatre menus in New York restaurants..they'll have you out the door in under an hour.... ((-:

[ExtraMSG]

We had a group of 5 of us at Trotter's when I went and I don't think the meal went that much longer than 2 hours (once we got in; they made us wait 20 minutes or more, which was annoying). Little Washington was the same. 15 course menu at Lola in Dallas and me and a friend only took maybe an hour and a half. French Laundry was the only place in the Bay Area where they seemed to time the courses for us, rather than for them. We did the 9 course or whatever there and it was well under 2 hours.

Some places try to meet the timing of their customers, some just impose their timing on the customers. I prefer the former.

I don't say Herbfarm is a bad restaurant because of it. I just say that I'm less likely to enjoy my time there or want to go.

[Foodie-Girl]

MSG...Sounds like we've eaten at many of the same restaurants but had different experiences as far as timing.

Our first dinner at Charlie Trotters was about 3 hours...French Laundry...also about 3 hours. Same for Inn at Little Washington.

All three dinners we've had at Herbfarm seem to run 4 hours so that's what we've come to expect.

[ExtraMSG]

I don't drink. That may be the big difference. I've done a lot of these haute cuisine dinners with the same people, who also don't drink.

San Francisco was really the first place I've eaten multi-course tasting menus that had restaurants which consistently dragged out the meal. The exception on my last trip was French Laundry which seemed to really pay attention to us.

With the Herbfarm, it seems that there's no choice but for everyone to go at the same slow pace.

[Coop]

Everyone seems to mention the song and dance one receives with dinner here, can someone talk about it? I've often thought of going but I hate listening to people making a big deal about the food I'm about to eat.

[LEdlund]

15 course menu at Lola in Dallas and me and a friend only took maybe an hour and a half.

I think I'd be sick if I had to eat that quickly! I much prefer a leisurely pace to my dining.

Meals at Lumiere and Tojo's in Vancouver and Mistral in Seattle easily topped the 3 hour mark and I loved it.

[tighe]

Everyone seems to mention the song and dance one receives with dinner here, can someone talk about it? I've often thought of going but I hate listening to people making a big deal about the food I'm about to eat.

It usually goes something like this....

1) A recitation of the Herbfarm 'story', beginning with the owner's mother putting a few pots of herbs out in front of her house with a change jars.....the restaurant....the fire....the move....the second move.....up to the present...

2) The introduction and resumes of every member of the kitchen and service team along with the owners and the guitar player (he IS from the Royal Conservatory in Madrid you know!)....

3) A prolonged back and forth between Jerry Traunfeld and the owner on the details of ingredient sourcing, preparation and accompanying wines for each course....

Recent reports indicate that this may have been pared down some, but this is what I remember....

[Coop]

Is it as painfull as it sounds?

[tighe]

Is it as painfull as it sounds?

It depends on how you feel about this kind of thing. My first time it was fine, but on my two subsequent visits it has gotten progressively more excruciating. There are reports that before the fire and subsequent relocation, a puppet was involved in the whole schtick. Thank God that's no longer the case at least.

[vengroff]

15 course menu at Lola in Dallas and me and a friend only took maybe an hour and a half.

I think I'd be sick if I had to eat that quickly! I much prefer a leisurely pace to my dining.

Meals at Lumiere and Tojo's in Vancouver and Mistral in Seattle easily topped the 3 hour mark and I loved it.

I'm with you LEdlund. A few days before I left DC I had a four course meal at the bar at Nectar that lasted from 7 o'clock to 11:30. It was great talking to the staff and fellow patrons before during and after each course. It was really much more like a good dinner party with interesting guests than a standard restaurant experience. I love that kind of dining.

[ExtraMSG]

15 course menu at Lola in Dallas and me and a friend only took maybe an hour and a half.

I think I'd be sick if I had to eat that quickly! I much prefer a leisurely pace to my dining.

Meals at Lumiere and Tojo's in Vancouver and Mistral in Seattle easily topped the 3 hour mark and I loved it.

I'm with you LEdlund. A few days before I left DC I had a four course meal at the bar at Nectar that lasted from 7 o'clock to 11:30. It was great talking to the staff and fellow patrons before during and after each course. It was really much more like a good dinner party with interesting guests than a standard restaurant experience. I love that kind of dining.

The key is that it should be suited to the customer, imo. With Herbfarm, there appears to be no choice or option. I can see how some would want to take longer. That's fine. I'm not saying my way is the right way. Just that it's unfortunate for me if I ever want to go to Herbfarm that I'll need to bring a book or take a nap.

[vengroff]

The key is that it should be suited to the customer, imo.  With Herbfarm, there appears to be no choice or option.  I can see how some would want to take longer. That's fine.  I'm not saying my way is the right way.  Just that it's unfortunate for me if I ever want to go to Herbfarm that I'll need to bring a book or take a nap.

Can't argue with that. I should have said something to that effect in my post.

If you go you should try to bring along someone you are interested in having long leisurely conversation with. Although that might interfere with the dog and pony show. I guess you could text message back and forth on your mobile phones or something.

[ExtraMSG]

Maybe I could bring my laptop and watch Return of the King and see which takes long.

[Wilson]

At over $150 per person, I just can't bring myself to pay the premium for wine that I won't drink.  That'd be the most expensive meal I'd ever purchased, and I've eaten at Charlie Trotter's, The Inn at Little Washington, and French Laundry.

I have to ask what you ate at those other places. I took two people to Trotter's last spring. We did the Full Cleveland (er, the Full Chicago), with a half-bottle of Champagne to start; the wine accompaniment for each of us; the cheese course for each of us; the dessert course for each of us; coffee and after-dinner wine. With tax and tip it came to $950.

Last month, two of us went to Mistral in Seattle and had the "Mistral experience" and port after dinner for $510 including tax and tip. Seems to me that Herbfarm isn't particularly expensive by the standards of super-luxe foodie places. But that's only if it really measures up, and since I haven't been there I can't say. But there ought to be some places where you truly don't worry about the bill.

I thank Foodie-Girl for posting the review. I'm new to this website, and a recent return to Seattle after a long absence. I had never gotten to the old Herbfarm before it burned down and am thinking about going out there. Presuming we can get one of the "last minute tables" (I won't go along with the 30-day rigamariole on principle), I think my point of hesitation is a six-hour dinner. I can do three or four hours, but I'm not entirely sure I can last for six hours especially with a 40-minute gap between Course 1 and Course 2.

The "dog-and-pony show," as people call it, makes me pause. I've dined at some of the great places (albeit not the French Laundry, which rose to stardom while I was living in the East), and have always enjoyed it when we can bond with an intelligent, committed serving group and meet the chef. But HF's thing strikes me as Disney-esque. I guess the bottom line is this: Does the food make it worthwhile?

I'm going to have to re-read the reviews and think it over. But again, F-G, thanks very much for your posting. It helps quite a bit.

[Foodie-Girl]

Glad you enjoyed my post.

I have never spent 6 hours at dinner anywhere.

On all three Herbfarm visits I believe we were back in our hotel room by 11P...Dinner starts at 7P. There were others still in the dining room chatting over coffee/port when we left...but dinner was definitely over.

[Wilson]

My mistake. Somehow I had gotten the impression that this was a 6-hour thing, but their website says 4-5 hours. If I can keep to four hours I think I'll be o.k.!

[Joe H]

Wilson, why don't you e-mail me?

[Wilson]

Since i've been to the Herb Farm several times, the only thing i'd say is i'd feel sorry for anyone who made a reservation months ago that wasn't fond of truffeles.

Personally I was impressed with the way that the White Truffles were utilized as it wasn't the most effective way of applying their nuances.

Were the Truffles American or imported from Europe. Did they charge a Premium for this Special Menu ?

Since you made it a overnight special occasion did you consider that it would have been about the same cost if you'd decided to spend the night in Napa and have dinner at the French Laundry or any Bay Area, Las Vegas or Vancover, LA Restaurant including the air fare.

Glad you enjoyed the experience and hope it made your special occassion extra special.

Irwin

Since you made it a overnight special occasion did you consider that it would have been about the same cost if you'd decided to spend the night in Napa and have dinner at the French Laundry or any Bay Area, Las Vegas or Vancover, LA Restaurant including the air fare.

I don't see how you can say that. Based on the prices I saw on HF's website + the charge for a room at the Inn, it seems that, if anything, they are somewhjat cheaper than the French Laundry and an equivalent-level accommodation. Air fares from Seattle to California, plus the rental car charges you'd need to pay, would make flying there far more expensive than going out to the Herbfarm for dinner and staying overnight.

Also, when I checked HF's website they list the theme dinners so I have to assume that F-G knew she'd be doing a truffle thing when she reserved. I hope so, anyway. I don't particular go for "themes" myself so I think I'd be irked if I stumbled into a theme dinner by mistake. As for extra charges, HF's website implies that they tack on another $20 pp for the theme dinners.

I must say that if an extra $20 is a problem then HF or equivalent places are probably not for you to begin with. I eat in a wide variety of places expensive to cheap, but the one thing I've always tried not to do is sit down for a meal in a place where I had to worry about the prices.

[ExtraMSG]

I have to ask what you ate at those other places. I took two people to Trotter's last spring. We did the Full Cleveland (er, the Full Chicago), with a half-bottle of Champagne to start; the wine accompaniment for each of us; the cheese course for each of us; the dessert course for each of us; coffee and after-dinner wine. With tax and tip it came to $950.

I don't drink. That makes my costs much lower than many peoples. I ate the grand menu at CT's, the Chef's tasting menu at TFL, and I don't think there was a choice at I@LW. All were at least $40 cheaper per diner than Herbfarm.

But the money issue is more a straw that breaks the back than a determining factor. I've covered these before (and also in the Chowhound post -- I'm Nick -- that you might have read in the discussion there): course timing, meal length, expense, presentation, distance, and service charge. To me, it has a lot of barriers.

It's nice (for you) that expense isn't an issue, but I think for most people it is. And paying 33% more at Herbfarm than Trotter's or French Laundry is significant. People value restaurants that serve essentially equal food when they have $15 entrees instead of $25 entrees. $175 versus $125 meals is going to have an effect on most of us.

Further, the relative expense of Herbfarm is significant for the area. The bay area, and especially Chicago, have expensive food. Herbfarm may not seem like a big deal if you're from Chicago or New York, but it's significantly more expensive for someone from Portland, like myself.

[Foodie-Girl]

The brochure/website has given me enough info. to know if the emphasis is on something I don't especially like...ie I generally prefer white to red wine so I wouldn't go for the all-red wine Red Heads dinners.

For someone not liking salmon...the Copper River dinners wouldn't be a good choice either.

The per person prices are as stated....anywhere from $159 to $189 as I recall.

Oh yes, Wilson, I do enjoy truffles!