Saimin in Hawaii

[skchai]

Saimin has long been one of the defining dishes of local Hawai`i cuisine.

(1) Here are some examples of popular Saimins Stands past and present. How would you rate them? Any others?

Shiro's Hula Hula / Saimin Haven

Hamura's Saimin (Kauai)

Palace Saimin Stand

O&S Saimin

Shige's Saimin Stand

Old Saimin House

Zippy's Saimin Lanai

Old Honolulu Stadium (you have to be ancient to remember this!)

And how about the make-at-home standby, S&S?

(2) What's the difference between Saimin and Ramen? The toppings? The broth? The noodles? The people who eat it and where they eat it?

(3) What do you put on top your Saimin? Char siew? Green Onions? Chopped Egg? Kamaboko? Uhh . . . Spam?

(4) *** Bonus Question 1 ***

Where did the word Saimin come from? The "min" part obviously comes from the Chinese character for noodles, but what about the "sai"?

(5) *** Bonus Question 2 ***

Who invented the "DonDonPa"?

[mamster]

I can't answer those questions, but I can tell you that the one time I was in Hawaii was in sixth grade, 1987, and every day for lunch my friend Alex and I went to a saimin stand and got the one with gyozas tossed into the bowl. Not only was it fantastic, it was pretty much the main thing I remember about Hawaii. There was a little boogie boarding, and I bought a Zippo lighter, but basically the noodles were what it was all about.

[ExtraMSG]

I've been to Hamura's and it was fabulous. Good shave ice, too, though I think it was some people just renting out space in Hamura's doing the shave ice. They even had some pie there, if I remember correctly, that was tasty. Almost no one but locals since it's in the heart of a non-tourist town. Great stuff, and I'm not even a big fan of noodle soups.

[skchai]

Thanks so much for the replies!

Great memories, Mamster. Yes, gyoza is one of the many popular toppings for saimin that I neglected to mention in my earlier post. Others are roast pork, chicken katsu pieces, shrimp, kim chi, cabbage, portuguese sausage, hot dogs, shredded teriyaki beef, etc. etc. In fact, one of the great things about saimin is that just about anything in the local cupboard is fair game, and it's still "saimin". Contrast this to Japanese ramen, which takes many forms, but each form is codified and has its own proper recipe.

Yes, ExtraMSG, Hamura's is the place. In fact, a lot of people consider it the best in the state. People usually get the meat sticks and the lilikoi pie too along with their saimin - that's part of the ritual.

[FoodZealot]

I dunno if I'm left out of the saimin phenomenon because I grew up on the Big Island, or if it's because I'm not really a hot soup fan (hot blooded), but I can't think of a place we went to for saimin. I'm sure there are places that serve it, but it wasn't a staple.

Once in a while, we used to make a similar thing at home, but with those vacuum packed udon noodles, and sometimes homemade pork stock. Ono! Usual toppings were: char siu, an egg (either poached in the broth or scrambled like eggdrop soup), green onions, kim chee with some of the kim chee juice, and either kamaboko or slices of those fried surimi patties with gobo.

~Tad

[skchai]

Once in a while, we used to make a similar thing at home, but with those vacuum packed udon noodles, and sometimes homemade pork stock.  Ono!  Usual toppings were:  char siu, an egg (either poached in the broth or scrambled like eggdrop soup), green onions, kim chee with some of the kim chee juice, and either kamaboko or slices of those fried surimi patties with gobo.

~Tad

Tad -

I'm not so sure that what you just talked about doesn't get classified as "saimin". The definition is pretty unclear - yes, it usually uses chinese-style egg noodles, but not everyone does that. Some poeple use plain flour noodles. I recently went to Shiro's off of Dillingham in Kalihi, and it seemed that their noodles had been squeezed out one of those Popeil pasta machines - they were all wrinkly and ready to fall apart at the joints. And Shiro's has been considered one of the prototypical places to eat Saimin!

So udon may be acceptable for saimin. The toppings you mention are definitely local style, particularly the mixing of kim chee, char siu, and kamaboko - broke da mout'! Effortless and (presumably) unconscious creation of pan-Asian cuisine. . .

Edited October 2, 2003 by skchai (log)

[skchai]

Another piece of Saimin history is no more:

Washington Saimin latest to go

[wesza]

Sorry to learn the "Washington Saimin', has closed. I'm curious if "Mc Donald's", in Hawaii still has "Saimin", on their menu? Mostly because of the fact that before it was incorperated on the Mc Donalds menus. the original franchise holder for the Hawaii Mc Donalds, prior to starting Saimin on their menus, took several Mc Donalds Consultant's to Washington Saimen, to introduce this dish to them. Since I was part of the team, and the only Honolulu resident involved I hope that they'll be remembered everytime someone orders Saimin with their Big Mac. They copied but never equaled the noodles quality. Irwin

[skchai]

Thanks for sharing those great recollections, Irwin. You may be one of the only people who knows the story of how Saimin came to McDonald's. I never realized that they had based their recipe on Washington Saimin! Would you mind giving us more details about his important untold story in Hawai`i's culinary history?

Whose idea was it to adopt Saimin in the local McDonald's? Why was Washington Saimin chosen as the place to copy? How was the research done, and what problems did they have adapting it to the mass-production fast-food model? How were your interactions with the mainland consultants? And, what, pray tell, if you can safely say, that is . . . was the recipe?

McDonald's Hawai`i still serves saimin. It also still serves Portuguese sausage or Spam and rice with your eggs for breakfast. Last year they also experimented with mini-plate lunches and melon-flavored shakes (taking off from the recent craze here for Melona, a Korean melon-flavored milk / popsicle) at few locations. Don't know if that panned out though.

Irwin, a Double Mahalo Nui Loa for that memory! Everytime someone orders a Saimin at McDonald's they owe a debt not only to Washington Saimin, but to you as well.

[caroline]

Yes, Irwin, please tell us more. Hawaii was one of the first places to stretch the McDonald's formula I believe and it would be great to have a sense of what was involved,

Rachel

[caroline]

Yes, Irwin, please tell us more. Hawaii was one of the first places to stretch the McDonald's formula I believe and it would be great to have a sense of what was involved,

Rachel

[Kimo]

My four-year old son and I ate saimin four times in seven days in Hawaii (we just returned early this morning). Just S&S at the Neighborhood Store in Pukoo, Molokai...it was close to the beach we frequent and very convenient. BTW, Uwajimaya (www.uwajimaya.com) is having a 10% off everything sale...final days, in honor of its 75th anniversary. Time to stock up on saimin noodles, shoyu/soy sauce, kamaboko, green onions, etc. The store is located in Seattle (I-District), Bellevue, and Beaverton, OR.

My father owns Kamoi Snack-n-Go, a local-style snack shop on Molokai (Icee, ice cream, seeds, chips, candies, sodas, etc.)--the only non-Honolulu location of Dave's Ice Cream. We ate ice cream six days in a row--lychee (twice), green tea, Hawaiian rocky road, mac nut, vanilla, haupia/coconut (twice), cotton candy. The employees even top the ice cream with free samples of li hing mui. No really good plate lunches on Molokai (however, Kanemitsu Bakery is not to be missed).

P.S. McDonald's saimin is still pretty darn good! Kimo

[Kimo]

Yes, Irwin. I'd love to hear about the history of McDonald's saimin in Hawaii (we frequented the Kahala Bowl McDonald's whenever my sisters and I were in Honolulu)...

[wesza]

Thanks for sharing those great recollections, Irwin.  You may be one of the only people who knows the story of how Saimin came to McDonald's.  I never realized that they had based their recipe on Washington Saimin!  Would you mind giving us more details about his important untold story in Hawai`i's culinary history? 

Whose idea was it to adopt Saimin in the local McDonald's?  Why was Washington Saimin chosen as the place to copy?  How was the research done, and what problems did they have adapting it to the mass-production fast-food model?  How were your interactions with the mainland consultants?  And, what, pray tell, if you can safely say, that is . . . was the recipe? 

McDonald's Hawai`i still serves saimin.  It also still serves Portuguese sausage or Spam and rice with your eggs for breakfast.  Last year they also experimented with mini-plate lunches and melon-flavored shakes (taking off from the recent craze here for Melona, a Korean melon-flavored milk / popsicle) at few locations.  Don't know if that panned out though. 

Irwin, a Double Mahalo Nui Loa for that memory!  Everytime someone orders a Saimin at McDonald's they owe a debt not only to Washington Saimin, but to you as well.

SKChai, Rachel and Kimo: The way the 'Washington Saimin", became involved was that the owner of the original, "McDonald's" Franchise for the Hawaiian Islands, where the highest grossing McDonalds stores, during that time frame were located, due to 12 months steady high volumes wanted to serve "Saimin", and his personal favorite was the "Washington Samin". He also was the owner of the 'Foodland Supermarkets". Since he had the clout, and it added up to a interesting concept, McDonalds was willing to try. At the same time we were able to push for Portugese Sausages to be included with the then new breakfast concept.

We simply arranged for the 'Saimin Noodle", provider to be able to increase his volume, and provide customized packaging for McDonalds. Ditto for the Fish Cake Supplier. The Soup Base was arranged for by the largest popular 'Ramen Supplier', who was associated with Aji-No-Moto in Jspan who operated hundreds of Noodle Ramin Shops in Japan, and later opened on in Honolulu on King Street, near the Movie Theatre. [don't know if it's still there]. This soup 'Saimen Base', is probably still being used. It was quite acceptable, very consistant.

Wonder how many remember when a "New York City, "Papaya King', Hot Dog and Tropical Drinks concept opened at the "Foodland Supermarket", at Ala Moana Center?

[skchai]

SKChai, Rachel and Kimo: The way the 'Washington Saimin", became involved was that the owner of the original, "McDonald's" Franchise for the Hawaiian Islands, where the highest grossing McDonalds stores, during that time frame were located, due to 12 months steady high volumes wanted to serve "Saimin", and his personal favorite was the "Washington Samin". He also was the owner of the 'Foodland Supermarkets". Since he had the clout, and it added up to a interesting concept, McDonalds was willing to try. At the same time we were able to push for Portugese Sausages to be included with the then new breakfast concept.

So that's how it happened. . . I didn't even realize that Maurice Sullivan (late Foodland owner) was also the first owner of the local McDonald's Franchises. By the way, the operation is now run by his daughter Jenai. . .

We simply arranged for the 'Saimin Noodle", provider to be able to increase his volume, and provide customized packaging for McDonalds. Ditto for the Fish Cake Supplier. The Soup Base was arranged for by the largest popular 'Ramen Supplier', who was associated with Aji-No-Moto in Jspan who operated hundreds of Noodle Ramin Shops in Japan, and later opened on in Honolulu on King Street, near the Movie Theatre. [don't know if it's still there]. This soup 'Saimen Base', is probably still being used. It was quite acceptable, very consistant.

Would it be O.K. to identify the noodle vendor? S&S (which incidentally is now owned by Japanese tea & beverage giant Itoen)? The soup base company also - there are still a lot of ramen shops near to the the old Cinerama Theater location on S. King and Punahou (if that's where you're talking about), but I'm not sure if any is the one you're referring to. The theater itself was closed down years ago and is not the site for a Checkers auto parts store.

Wonder how many remember when a "New York City, "Papaya King', Hot Dog and Tropical Drinks concept opened at the "Foodland Supermarket", at Ala Moana Center?

Wow, really? That must have been during the time when I was living on the mainland. I would have noticed that. Was it actually a Papaya King franchise? In an interesting way, this makes sense, since people tend to associate papayas with Hawai`i anyway, and with the hot dogs (which are supposed to be "better than filet mignon" I think the slogan goes) I would have expected it to have done pretty well, particularly with tourists. Perhaps it was the Ala Moana location, though.

[Kimo]

Has there been any update on anyone reopening Washington Saimin?

Does anyone know of an "authentic" saimin stand in Seattle/Tacoma/Everett?

[wesza]

SKChai, Rachel and Kimo: The way the 'Washington Saimin", became involved was that the owner of the original, "McDonald's" Franchise for the Hawaiian Islands, where the highest grossing McDonalds stores, during that time frame were located, due to 12 months steady high volumes wanted to serve "Saimin", and his personal favorite was the "Washington Samin". He also was the owner of the 'Foodland Supermarkets". Since he had the clout, and it added up to a interesting concept, McDonalds was willing to try. At the same time we were able to push for Portugese Sausages to be included with the then new breakfast concept.

So that's how it happened. . . I didn't even realize that Maurice Sullivan (late Foodland owner) was also the first owner of the local McDonald's Franchises. By the way, the operation is now run by his daughter Jenai. . .

We simply arranged for the 'Saimin Noodle", provider to be able to increase his volume, and provide customized packaging for McDonalds. Ditto for the Fish Cake Supplier. The Soup Base was arranged for by the largest popular 'Ramen Supplier', who was associated with Aji-No-Moto in Jspan who operated hundreds of Noodle Ramin Shops in Japan, and later opened on in Honolulu on King Street, near the Movie Theatre. [don't know if it's still there]. This soup 'Saimen Base', is probably still being used. It was quite acceptable, very consistant.

Would it be O.K. to identify the noodle vendor? S&S (which incidentally is now owned by Japanese tea & beverage giant Itoen)? The soup base company also - there are still a lot of ramen shops near to the the old Cinerama Theater location on S. King and Punahou (if that's where you're talking about), but I'm not sure if any is the one you're referring to. The theater itself was closed down years ago and is not the site for a Checkers auto parts store.

Wonder how many remember when a "New York City, "Papaya King', Hot Dog and Tropical Drinks concept opened at the "Foodland Supermarket", at Ala Moana Center?

Wow, really? That must have been during the time when I was living on the mainland. I would have noticed that. Was it actually a Papaya King franchise? In an interesting way, this makes sense, since people tend to associate papayas with Hawai`i anyway, and with the hot dogs (which are supposed to be "better than filet mignon" I think the slogan goes) I would have expected it to have done pretty well, particularly with tourists. Perhaps it was the Ala Moana location, though.

The "Papya King", was opened at the Ala Moana Mall entrance to the "Foodland", a tenant of "Maurice Sullivan". It had the same tropical drinks varieties as NYC, prepared from the same formulas and recipes. The Hot Dogs and Griddles were also authentic. I really enjoyed the ,Papaya, Pina Colada, Coconut as well as the Fresh Squeezed Orange Juice, but somehow it wasn't able to sustain the volume of sales, nor given enough time for the drinks to become accepted. I have always been surprised that theres not been anyone developing inti the niche market for such refreshing tropical beverages.

There is still what I consider a "Hawaiian Style", Chinese Restaurant in Seattle. [similar dishes to McCully Chop Suey"], called "Tai Tung".

I'm surprised that the "Fried Chicken Wings", featured in local, Korean Bars haven't become popular. They sure are better then Buffalo Wings. Also , "PuPu's", are more fun then the stylish,"Tapa's". No one prepares better fusion Bar Snacks, then those served in allt he Islands. Irwin

[skchai]

The "Papya King", was opened at the Ala Moana Mall entrance to the "Foodland", a tenant of "Maurice Sullivan". It had the same tropical drinks varieties as NYC, prepared from the same formulas and recipes. The Hot Dogs and Griddles were also authentic. I really enjoyed the ,Papaya, Pina Colada, Coconut as well as the Fresh Squeezed Orange Juice, but somehow it wasn't able to sustain the volume of sales, nor given enough time for the drinks to become accepted. I have always been surprised that theres not been anyone developing inti the niche market for such refreshing tropical beverages.

There is still what I consider a "Hawaiian Style", Chinese Restaurant in Seattle. [similar dishes to McCully Chop Suey"], called "Tai Tung".

I'm surprised that the "Fried Chicken Wings", featured in local, Korean Bars haven't become popular. They sure are better then Buffalo Wings. Also , "PuPu's", are more fun then the stylish,"Tapa's". No one prepares better fusion Bar Snacks, then those served in allt he Islands.  Irwin

Kimo, it's only been a short time since Washington Saimin closed, so I don't think there are any plans to reopen it for now. . .

Irwin, it may have been that the Papaya King concept was ahead of its time, at least for the local community. More recently, the Jamba Juice chain, which sells a variety of fruit smoothies and drinks as "health boosters", has opened several branches in the islands and seems to have been quite successful - somehow they always seem to be situated next to or near a Starbucks. Not sure of the reason for this.

One tricky proposition is that the selling of hot dogs and tropical drinks may have been puzzling to people who tend to view the former as "junk food" and the latter as "healthy alternatives". Another problem may have been that the concept might have worked better in Waikiki with the tourists than in Ala Moana, since hot dogs have never been a huge fast food item in the Islands, except at ballgames, picnics - even there they are increasingly being superceded by the Spam musubi and its many variations.

McCully Chop Sui is still going strong - lots of loyal customers, including many of my UH colleagues, still go there regularly. Of the other Chop Sui houses, Manoa Chop Sui closed down long ago and is now (argh) a Starbucks.

Regarding the "Fried Chicken Wings". I guess I don't have much experience at Korean-style bars (hehe), but are you referring to the crisp marinated wings that are often now sold on plate lunch menus as "korean chicken"?

In general, I agree with you that Hawai`i probably has a range and quality of finger and snack foods far suppassing just about anywhere in the world, as well as culture that places a high value on providing these foods on an everyday basis. Scholars who come from the mainland to the UH for one of our dept. colloquia or informal panels are shocked that instead of expected bottled water and / or chips n' salsa, we regularly present huge trays of crispy gau gee, manapua, meat sticks, chicken katsu, fried noodles, several kinds of mochi, etc. etc. People here would be disappointed with anything less.

[wesza]

The "Papya King", was opened at the Ala Moana Mall entrance to the "Foodland", a tenant of "Maurice Sullivan". It had the same tropical drinks varieties as NYC, prepared from the same formulas and recipes. The Hot Dogs and Griddles were also authentic. I really enjoyed the ,Papaya, Pina Colada, Coconut as well as the Fresh Squeezed Orange Juice, but somehow it wasn't able to sustain the volume of sales, nor given enough time for the drinks to become accepted. I have always been surprised that theres not been anyone developing inti the niche market for such refreshing tropical beverages.

There is still what I consider a "Hawaiian Style", Chinese Restaurant in Seattle. [similar dishes to McCully Chop Suey"], called "Tai Tung".

I'm surprised that the "Fried Chicken Wings", featured in local, Korean Bars haven't become popular. They sure are better then Buffalo Wings. Also , "PuPu's", are more fun then the stylish,"Tapa's". No one prepares better fusion Bar Snacks, then those served in allt he Islands.  Irwin

Kimo, it's only been a short time since Washington Saimin closed, so I don't think there are any plans to reopen it for now. . .

Irwin, it may have been that the Papaya King concept was ahead of its time, at least for the local community. More recently, the Jamba Juice chain, which sells a variety of fruit smoothies and drinks as "health boosters", has opened several branches in the islands and seems to have been quite successful - somehow they always seem to be situated next to or near a Starbucks. Not sure of the reason for this.

One tricky proposition is that the selling of hot dogs and tropical drinks may have been puzzling to people who tend to view the former as "junk food" and the latter as "healthy alternatives". Another problem may have been that the concept might have worked better in Waikiki with the tourists than in Ala Moana, since hot dogs have never been a huge fast food item in the Islands, except at ballgames, picnics - even there they are increasingly being superceded by the Spam musubi and its many variations.

McCully Chop Sui is still going strong - lots of loyal customers, including many of my UH colleagues, still go there regularly. Of the other Chop Sui houses, Manoa Chop Sui closed down long ago and is now (argh) a Starbucks.

Regarding the "Fried Chicken Wings". I guess I don't have much experience at Korean-style bars (hehe), but are you referring to the crisp marinated wings that are often now sold on plate lunch menus as "korean chicken"?

In general, I agree with you that Hawai`i probably has a range and quality of finger and snack foods far suppassing just about anywhere in the world, as well as culture that places a high value on providing these foods on an everyday basis. Scholars who come from the mainland to the UH for one of our dept. colloquia or informal panels are shocked that instead of expected bottled water and / or chips n' salsa, we regularly present huge trays of crispy gau gee, manapua, meat sticks, chicken katsu, fried noodles, several kinds of mochi, etc. etc. People here would be disappointed with anything less.

skChai: Papaya King closed only for one reason. Maurice Sullivan wanted the space he rented to them back. He wouldn't allow then enough time to develop a local following. The nyc style tropical drinks were put together from quality ingredients that were formulated over 85 years ago, served in Times Square and many high volume locations thru Manhatten.

The Hawaiian customers who tried them became regular customers. The largest contigient were employees who worked at Ala Moana Center Shops. The operators were trying to build up the business by word of mouth, primarily because of their limited capitol. The sales did not bring them into the percentage rent anticipated by all ala moana shops, especially in spaces subleased.

Hotdog Sales were always substancial at Lynn's Deli, whose owner operated the very high volume Chines Restaurant, as well as the Italian Restaurant. Also owned a New Zeland Meat exporting Company that was successfull.

Are they still in business?

When the Bakery closed and they moved into that location at the mall. It was after the Bakery had a fire at his production faculty. I called, "Young", the owner up after it was reported on the news, and sold him the location on King Street in Kilihi, where I had purchased the lease, and had intented to open a Wholesale Bakery. It was very timely and worked out well.

I'm curious about your feeling about the reception of Hot Dogs in Honolulu. I remember that they used to bring from 'Maui" for Fernandez Carnivals, Fund Raisers and Special occassions from the Ranch [don't remember how to spell the name] that made "Skinny Bright Red", Hotdogs that locals would line up to buy.

For many years the only source of bulk varieties of Korean Kimchee, [very tasty] was "Tamishiro's Market". There were many suppliers of Cabbage and Turnip Bottled Kim Chees but not bulk. Just before I moved from the Islands there were Korean Grocers who startind making and selling their own.

In Seattle and especially in Lakewood near Tacoma we have Asian Supermarkets with a many as 200 varieties of bulk Kim Chee, kept in special self service refrigeration under glass. I consider shopping there as party time. There also many excellent Korean Restaurants featuring many authentic full table partyish pre ordered preperations for as little as 8 diners.

I used to enjoy eating at the McCully Chop Suey late at night with Don Ho, and Rap Raplinger who i'm sure is best remembered by his rendition of, "Room Service".

About visiting, Korean Bars, it best expressed by my signature on all my postings. However I became friends with many of the owners and was often invited to stop by with my family during the afternoons. There was one place that originated the spicy, seseme seeded coated chicken wings, that had developed into a important take out business prior to our leaving the Island that required 3 deep fryers. There was a Professor at UH, who was very close to my wife, my kids babysat for him who was writing a interesting project to be incorperated into bookform. About the Ethinic History in Hawaii. Curious if Dr. Sasso ever published. Irwin

[skchai]

skChai: Papaya King closed only for one reason. Maurice Sullivan wanted the space he rented to them back. He wouldn't allow then enough time to develop a local following. The nyc style tropical drinks were put together from quality ingredients that were formulated over 85 years ago, served in Times Square and many high volume locations thru Manhatten.

The Hawaiian customers who tried them became regular customers. The largest contigient were employees who worked at Ala Moana Center Shops. The operators were trying to build up the business by word of mouth, primarily because of their limited capitol. The sales did not bring them into the percentage rent anticipated by all ala moana shops, especially in spaces subleased.

Too bad it didn't work out. With time, I'm sure you're completely correct that the drinks could have been a great success. And without some of the gimmicry that characterizes Jamba Juice and the like. Anyone who wants to see an interesting menu comparison can look at the names of the juice and smoothie options at Papaya King and compare them to those at Jamba Juice. The ones at Papaya King simply bear the names of the fruits that they're made from - Papaya, Mango, etc. with a few simple concoctions like Coconut Champagne. The ones at Jamba Juice seem to be slogans rather than descriptions - all of them have ™ or ® after them - what exactly is "Carribean Passion™"?.

O.K., my rant aside, it would have been great to have a branch of the great NY institution Papaya King here in Hawai`i.

By the way, under Jenai Sullivan Wall, Foodland has been doing a great job of promoting locally-made food products. Here's an article in the Advertiser about their latest effort.

Hotdog Sales were always substancial at Lynn's Deli, whose owner operated the very high volume Chines Restaurant, as well as the Italian Restaurant. Also owned a New Zeland Meat exporting Company that was successfull.

Are they still in business?

When the Bakery closed and they moved into that location at the mall. It was after the Bakery had a fire at his production faculty. I called, "Young", the owner up after it was reported on the news, and sold him the location on King Street in Kilihi, where I had purchased the lease, and had intented to open a Wholesale Bakery. It was very timely and worked out well.

Lynn's Deli in Ala Moana has closed down. They moved for a while to the Makai Market Food Court on the ground floor of the center for a while before moving out completely. I'm not sure if they are still in operation elsewhere, though there is no "Lynn's Deli" or "Lynn's Bakery" listed in the phone book.

I'm curious about your feeling about the reception of Hot Dogs in Honolulu. I remember that they used to bring from 'Maui" for Fernandez Carnivals, Fund Raisers and Special occassions from the Ranch [don't remember how to spell the name] that made "Skinny Bright Red", Hotdogs that locals would line up to buy.

I think you're referring to the "Maui Hot Dog" made by the Maui Meat Co., though I don't remember the name of the ranch they came from. Unfortunately (sigh), they are no longer being made, at least not the genuine article. However, we still do have "Redondo's Red Hot's" from Waipahu, which while not quite the same as the Maui Hot Dog, maintain the tradition of the neon-red cure!

I didn't mean to suggest that hot dogs are not eaten very much in Honolulu, just that they might not be quite as popular as on the mainland given the other options that are available. One local development in recent years is the shoyu dog, which is hot dogs braised in spiced soy sauce, sort of like shoyu chicken, and is popular for plate lunches. Another is the Hot Dog Musubi, which is a frankfurtherish version of the Spam Musubi - a shoyu hot dog is split lengthwise, then tied onto a rectangular block of rice with a piece of nori seaweed.

For many years the only source of bulk varieties of Korean Kimchee, [very tasty] was "Tamishiro's Market".  There were many suppliers of Cabbage and Turnip Bottled Kim Chees but not bulk. Just before I moved from the Islands there were Korean Grocers who startind making and selling their own.

In Seattle and especially in Lakewood near Tacoma we have Asian Supermarkets with a many as 200 varieties of bulk Kim Chee, kept in special self service refrigeration under glass. I consider shopping there as party time. There also many excellent Korean Restaurants featuring many authentic full table partyish pre ordered preperations for as little as 8 diners.

It's great that Korean food is so widely available in Seattle. I don't have the exact population figures, but I'm sure the Korean immigrant population there is probably one of the five or six highest for all metropolitan areas in the country.

Certainly the availability has increased a huge amount in Honolulu as well. The pioneers of local Kim Chee manufacturing were "Hahm's", "King's" and (on the Big Island) "Kohala" Kim Chee companies, each of which have been around for a several decades. More recently, a lot of small and large Korean specialty grocery stores have sprung up, each selling their own house brands of Kim Chee in many varieties. The biggest Korean Supermarkets are "Palama" and "Queen's" supermarkets, which both sell a large amount of ready-to-eat foods as well as grocery items. The biggest concentration of Korean restaurants is on Keeaumoku St. near Ala Moana, coincidentally (?) near where many of the Korean Bars were originally (and some still are) located.

I used to enjoy eating at the McCully Chop Suey late at night with Don Ho, and Rap Raplinger who i'm sure is best remembered by his rendition of, "Room Service".

Don Ho is still wowing the grandpas and grandmas from Podunk at the Waikiki Beachcomber and even has his own restaurant at the Aloha Tower Marketplace, though I've never eaten there. His daughter Hoku is also beginning to make a name for herself - she sang the theme song for "Legally Blonde".

. . and we still miss Rap. I can't believe that it's been nearly 20 years since he passed away. They still play "Fate Yanagi", "Room Service", "Young Kanakas" on the radio. . . it never gets old. In a way, his comedy helps each generation define and redefine what they think "Hawai`i" ought to stand for in the minds of its own people.

About visiting, Korean Bars, it best expressed by my signature on all my postings. However I became friends with many of the owners and was often invited to stop by with my family during the afternoons. There was one place that originated the spicy, seseme seeded coated chicken wings, that had developed into a important take out business prior to our leaving the Island that required 3 deep fryers.

Even today, the few remaining Korean-style bars still distinguish themselves via the high quality of their food as much as their, errh, other attractions. I had always wondered about the origin of the "Korean Chicken" that gets sold at so many plate lunch places nowadays, since it is not a traditional Korean dish. You've solved that mystery for me. If they had called it "Chicken Miss Kim" or "Chicken Arirang" it wouldn't have been such a mystery in the first place! By the way, would you happen to have the name of that take-out place you mentioned?

There was a Professor at UH, who was very close to my wife, my kids babysat for him who was writing a interesting project to be incorperated into bookform. About the Ethinic History in Hawaii. Curious if Dr. Sasso ever published. Irwin

Unfortunately, I couldn't find any reference to a Dr. Sasso in the UH directory. Nor Flora Chang or her husband in the Geology dept. I suppose they have all retired and are now enjoying their lives playing golf and flying off to Las Vegas every now and then.

Thanks again Irwin for a very informative post!

[wesza]

skChai: Papaya King closed only for one reason. Maurice Sullivan wanted the space he rented to them back. He wouldn't allow then enough time to develop a local following. The nyc style tropical drinks were put together from quality ingredients that were formulated over 85 years ago, served in Times Square and many high volume locations thru Manhatten.

The Hawaiian customers who tried them became regular customers. The largest contigient were employees who worked at Ala Moana Center Shops. The operators were trying to build up the business by word of mouth, primarily because of their limited capitol. The sales did not bring them into the percentage rent anticipated by all ala moana shops, especially in spaces subleased.

Too bad it didn't work out. With time, I'm sure you're completely correct that the drinks could have been a great success. And without some of the gimmicry that characterizes Jamba Juice and the like. Anyone who wants to see an interesting menu comparison can look at the names of the juice and smoothie options at Papaya King and compare them to those at Jamba Juice. The ones at Papaya King simply bear the names of the fruits that they're made from - Papaya, Mango, etc. with a few simple concoctions like Coconut Champagne. The ones at Jamba Juice seem to be slogans rather than descriptions - all of them have ™ or ® after them - what exactly is "Carribean Passion™"?.

O.K., my rant aside, it would have been great to have a branch of the great NY institution Papaya King here in Hawai`i.

By the way, under Jenai Sullivan Wall, Foodland has been doing a great job of promoting locally-made food products. Here's an article in the Advertiser about their latest effort.

Hotdog Sales were always substancial at Lynn's Deli, whose owner operated the very high volume Chines Restaurant, as well as the Italian Restaurant. Also owned a New Zeland Meat exporting Company that was successfull.

Are they still in business?

When the Bakery closed and they moved into that location at the mall. It was after the Bakery had a fire at his production faculty. I called, "Young", the owner up after it was reported on the news, and sold him the location on King Street in Kilihi, where I had purchased the lease, and had intented to open a Wholesale Bakery. It was very timely and worked out well.

Lynn's Deli in Ala Moana has closed down. They moved for a while to the Makai Market Food Court on the ground floor of the center for a while before moving out completely. I'm not sure if they are still in operation elsewhere, though there is no "Lynn's Deli" or "Lynn's Bakery" listed in the phone book.

I'm curious about your feeling about the reception of Hot Dogs in Honolulu. I remember that they used to bring from 'Maui" for Fernandez Carnivals, Fund Raisers and Special occassions from the Ranch [don't remember how to spell the name] that made "Skinny Bright Red", Hotdogs that locals would line up to buy.

I think you're referring to the "Maui Hot Dog" made by the Maui Meat Co., though I don't remember the name of the ranch they came from. Unfortunately (sigh), they are no longer being made, at least not the genuine article. However, we still do have "Redondo's Red Hot's" from Waipahu, which while not quite the same as the Maui Hot Dog, maintain the tradition of the neon-red cure!

I didn't mean to suggest that hot dogs are not eaten very much in Honolulu, just that they might not be quite as popular as on the mainland given the other options that are available. One local development in recent years is the shoyu dog, which is hot dogs braised in spiced soy sauce, sort of like shoyu chicken, and is popular for plate lunches. Another is the Hot Dog Musubi, which is a frankfurtherish version of the Spam Musubi - a shoyu hot dog is split lengthwise, then tied onto a rectangular block of rice with a piece of nori seaweed.

For many years the only source of bulk varieties of Korean Kimchee, [very tasty] was "Tamishiro's Market".  There were many suppliers of Cabbage and Turnip Bottled Kim Chees but not bulk. Just before I moved from the Islands there were Korean Grocers who startind making and selling their own.

In Seattle and especially in Lakewood near Tacoma we have Asian Supermarkets with a many as 200 varieties of bulk Kim Chee, kept in special self service refrigeration under glass. I consider shopping there as party time. There also many excellent Korean Restaurants featuring many authentic full table partyish pre ordered preperations for as little as 8 diners.

It's great that Korean food is so widely available in Seattle. I don't have the exact population figures, but I'm sure the Korean immigrant population there is probably one of the five or six highest for all metropolitan areas in the country.

Certainly the availability has increased a huge amount in Honolulu as well. The pioneers of local Kim Chee manufacturing were "Hahm's", "King's" and (on the Big Island) "Kohala" Kim Chee companies, each of which have been around for a several decades. More recently, a lot of small and large Korean specialty grocery stores have sprung up, each selling their own house brands of Kim Chee in many varieties. The biggest Korean Supermarkets are "Palama" and "Queen's" supermarkets, which both sell a large amount of ready-to-eat foods as well as grocery items. The biggest concentration of Korean restaurants is on Keeaumoku St. near Ala Moana, coincidentally (?) near where many of the Korean Bars were originally (and some still are) located.

I used to enjoy eating at the McCully Chop Suey late at night with Don Ho, and Rap Raplinger who i'm sure is best remembered by his rendition of, "Room Service".

Don Ho is still wowing the grandpas and grandmas from Podunk at the Waikiki Beachcomber and even has his own restaurant at the Aloha Tower Marketplace, though I've never eaten there. His daughter Hoku is also beginning to make a name for herself - she sang the theme song for "Legally Blonde".

. . and we still miss Rap. I can't believe that it's been nearly 20 years since he passed away. They still play "Fate Yanagi", "Room Service", "Young Kanakas" on the radio. . . it never gets old. In a way, his comedy helps each generation define and redefine what they think "Hawai`i" ought to stand for in the minds of its own people.

About visiting, Korean Bars, it best expressed by my signature on all my postings. However I became friends with many of the owners and was often invited to stop by with my family during the afternoons. There was one place that originated the spicy, seseme seeded coated chicken wings, that had developed into a important take out business prior to our leaving the Island that required 3 deep fryers.

Even today, the few remaining Korean-style bars still distinguish themselves via the high quality of their food as much as their, errh, other attractions. I had always wondered about the origin of the "Korean Chicken" that gets sold at so many plate lunch places nowadays, since it is not a traditional Korean dish. You've solved that mystery for me. If they had called it "Chicken Miss Kim" or "Chicken Arirang" it wouldn't have been such a mystery in the first place! By the way, would you happen to have the name of that take-out place you mentioned?

There was a Professor at UH, who was very close to my wife, my kids babysat for him who was writing a interesting project to be incorperated into bookform. About the Ethinic History in Hawaii. Curious if Dr. Sasso ever published. Irwin

Unfortunately, I couldn't find any reference to a Dr. Sasso in the UH directory. Nor Flora Chang or her husband in the Geology dept. I suppose they have all retired and are now enjoying their lives playing golf and flying off to Las Vegas every now and then.

Thanks again Irwin for a very informative post!

Sun-Ki: I wasn't aware that your ethinic background was Korean until you posted with Sun-Ki.

The lady who introduced the Chicken Wings so successfully often ran adds in the 'Advertiser" promoting them for take out sales, or eat in. I would have to dig into many boxes to find the card with her name and the name of her Bar. She did advertise reguarly from 1984-87 while I still resided in Hawaii full time.

Lest we forget i'm sure the Number one Hot Dog, type of Sausage product still sold in Hawaii continues to be the canned,"Vienna". I could understand the rationale for Spam, but never the Vienna Sausage popularity. Island loyalty for products, even things like canned Cake Frosting or 'Chef Boy R Dee", canned pasta. The only acceptable brand of "Lunch Meat", was Armour. THe one very popular product that seemed to be price related not brand was, "Imported Tinned Corn Beef".

I'm amazed that Lynn's closed since it gross sales were quite high. The Chinese Plate Lunch with the Double Lined Set Up, owned by the same principal used to be the highest grossing per square foot business in Ala Moana Center is it still in business or the Italian Place he opened adjacent?

Jamba, is a chain who has been successful by applying locations together with purporting healthy product. In my opinion they aren't that different then, "Orange Julius', who put a scoop of Dextrose Mixture into their drinks. Jamba pretty much does the same, by will charge you extra for the types of Powder that they add. Smart if your able to pull it off, under the guise of Health Food.

The Papaya King operation wasn't a branch store. It was opened by a friend of the owners who had relocated to Honolulu and conviniced them it would be feasable for him to bring to the Islands after he apprenticed at the place in NYC a similar version. Unfortunately it wasn't able to succeed.

Probably Dr. Sasso was lured away from UH, as he was a published author as well having been a Rhodes Scholar.

Irwin

[caroline]

I suspect the Dr Sasso you're talking about is Mike Saso in Religion. He never published on Hawaii's food at least to my knowledge but is (among many other things) autor of A Taoist Cookbook, a highly informed book based on his own experiences in China,

Rachel

[wesza]

I suspect the Dr Sasso you're talking about is Mike Saso in Religion.  He never published on Hawaii's food at least to my knowledge but is (among many other things) autor of A Taoist Cookbook, a highly informed book based on his own experiences in China,

Rachel

Rachel: Thank you, thats him. I added a extra "S" to his name. My wife Sandra was quite friendly with him, and my daughters Arlene and Bonnie babysat his children. He was considered a leading authority on 'Taoism". Was working on a paper that my wife assisted him with about ethinic origins and history in Hawaii. I have a copy of his book about his stay in China in storage, We knew many ofthe people who he spent time with before moving to Honolulu.

I'm pleased that he's still at UH.

Wasn't aware of the cookbook, but knew about his familiarity with traditional tea ceremonies.

Thank you for the update. Irwin

he was

[skchai]

Sun-Ki: I wasn't aware that your ethinic background was Korean until you posted with Sun-Ki.

The lady who introduced the Chicken Wings so successfully often ran adds in the 'Advertiser" promoting them for take out sales, or eat in. I would have to dig into many boxes to find the card with her name and the name of her Bar. She did advertise reguarly from 1984-87 while I still resided in Hawaii full time.

Yes - I am Korean. Though it took me a while to discover my "Inner Koreanness"!

That lady is an unsung heroine in local cuisine history. Nowadays Zippy's sells hundreds of plates of "Korean Chicken" a day from its many branches, and the dish appears on the menus of several other plate lunch places. It does come to think of it have some similarity to a Korean-Chinese dish called "kkanpunggi" but the presentation is quite different so I'm quite positive that she must have originated it. It's rare that we're able top pinpoint the inventor of a dish in popular cuisine, so if you could find the owner's name we could record it in the annals of history!

Lest we forget i'm sure the Number one Hot Dog, type of Sausage product still sold in Hawaii continues to be the canned,"Vienna". I could understand the rationale for Spam, but never the Vienna Sausage popularity. Island loyalty for products, even things like canned Cake Frosting or 'Chef Boy R Dee", canned pasta. The only acceptable brand of "Lunch Meat", was Armour. THe one very popular product that seemed to be price related not brand was, "Imported Tinned Corn Beef".

It's an interesting phenomenon. I've speculated a bit about this on the White Rice, Spam and Health in Hawaii thread really am not sure of all the reasons for the continued popularity of highly processed canned foods.

I'm amazed that Lynn's closed since it gross sales were quite high. The Chinese Plate Lunch with the Double Lined Set Up, owned by the same principal used to be the highest grossing per square foot business in Ala Moana Center is it still in business or the Italian Place he opened adjacent?

You must be referring to "Patti's Chinese Kitchen". It is still going very strong in the Makai Market Food Court of the Ala Moana Center. It still has the double-line setup - the left line is for plate lunches from the steam table trays, the right line for "Gau", pastries, and Dim Sum-like dishes. It prospers despite the looming presence of nationwide chain "Panda House" near it in the Food Court. In my estimation, the lines at Patti's are usually longer than those at Panda House, and always contains a higher percentage of locals. Panda House just doesn't have dishes like Roast Duck, Jai (Vegetarian Monk's Food), Kau Yuk (Red Braised Pork), Fried Pork Hash. . .

It didn't occur to me that Lynn's and Patti's had the same owner, but now that I think about, they did use to run their advertisements together on TV!

I'm not certain about the Italian place; do you recall the name?

Jamba, is a chain who has been successful by applying locations together with purporting healthy product. In my opinion they aren't that different then, "Orange Julius', who put a scoop of Dextrose Mixture into their drinks. Jamba pretty much does the same, by will charge you extra for the types of Powder that they add. Smart if your able to pull it off, under the guise of Health Food.

The Papaya King operation wasn't a branch store. It was opened by a friend of the owners who had relocated to Honolulu and conviniced them it would be feasable for him to bring to the Islands after he apprenticed at the place in NYC a similar version. Unfortunately it wasn't able to succeed.

It seems akamai food entrepreneurs have figured out that you can easily make money with young Americans by selling high-sugar processed foods under the label of health food, no matter how transparently bogus the label is. My little theory is that the public has an incorrigible appetite for the former, but an intention to consume the latter, and thus will resolve its imbalance / incongruence by accepting even the most implausible claimed health benefit for sweet snack foods. This explains not only Jamba Juice, but also the popularity of "Sobe" kool aid-type drinks and the ubiquity of the true but bizarre "low fat!" slogan on candies and soft drinks.

I suspect the Dr Sasso you're talking about is Mike Saso in Religion.  He never published on Hawaii's food at least to my knowledge but is (among many other things) autor of A Taoist Cookbook, a highly informed book based on his own experiences in China,

Rachel

Thanks, Rachel, for clearing that up.

I searched under "Saso" and it turns out that he is emeritus (retired) but is still apparently very active as a writer and practicioner, not to mention his cookbook. Seems he has been initiated as a Buddhist priest AND as a Taoist priest. Sounds like a very interesting person!

Sun-Ki

[alanamoana]

i read this thread a long time ago, so sorry if my reply isn't too coherent!

i loved the history of the mcdonald's saimin. as i worked there in high school the big problem was always how to make sure the hot water didn't spill all over the place when you bagged it to-go. unlike other mcd's products, it was from a local supplier and didn't have the appropriate packaging! we had to scoop the soup base on ourselves, so i'm sure it wasn't too consistent!

the papaya king in my neighborhood (ues manhattan) has pictures of the branch in honolulu. i too am sad that it didn't last longer . papaya king is great, and i'm sure a papaya king hot dog in saimin would be great (too keep on topic).

that said, i don't love saimin that much. too much kamaboko for me!