Ouest

[tommy]

ummm, how do you pronounce this restaurant?  i'm guessing "west", but i ain't so smart.

[Fat Guy]

"Rutabaga."

[tommy]

"Rutabaga."

LOL!  you f'er.

:)

[Fat Guy]

Search for "Trois-Rivières-Ouest" on m-w.com and you can hear a pronunciation.

[tommy]

Search for "Trois-Rivières-Ouest" on m-w.com and you can hear a pronunciation.

yeah, like i got time to surf the net all day?  right.  as if.

[Wilfrid]

Call them up and listen to what the receptionist who answers the phone says.  In fact, it's sometimes quite surprising how people pronounce the names of restaurants they work for.

[Bux]

quite surprising how people pronounce the names of restaurants they work for.

Le Bec Fin, as in shark fin, in Philadelphia. It's actually kind of refreshing to hear yourself welcomed to le Bec Fin that way, but one might have to resist the urge to correct the waiter.

Of course when I recommend Daniel, I can almost tell when they're writing down a girl's name. Then there was the British chef I met, who referred to Boulud as "Danny," or was it "Danny boy."

[Bux]

Tommy think of it as "oo-west," with the "oo-" being silent. ;)

[macrosan]

On that basis, Tommy could think of it as "Tommy-west" with the "Tommy" silent.......

...oh no, of course he couldn't, there's no such thing as a silent Tommy, silly me ......

[Wilfrid]

There are many pitfalls.  I expect Craft would be pronounced differently by a number of us.  No right answer there, either.  Bid is pretty straightforward, I think.  On second thoughts, a southerner could probably get two syllables out of it.

[tommy]

you know, can't a guy ask an honest simple question around here without getting a truck load of nonsense?

so now i'm really confused...is it Dan yell', or, dan' yul.

[Wilfrid]

Neither.

Do you want to know what it is?

[stefanyb]

Tommy my love,

1.Dahn-yell'  (most French words have the accent on the end syllable)

2."a"  is pronounced "ah" in France or Frahnce, I mean

[tommy]

well thank you stefany. :)

wilfrid, go to hell. :D

[Wilfrid]

I disagree with Stefanyb, while continuing to respect her.  I think Daniel is correctly pronounced "Don'yell".  An American accent (as opposed to a French accent) might make it sound more like "Dahn'yell" or "Dun'yell".  I agree with her about accenting the last syllable.

Tommy, I respect you too, but please.  hell?  I just got back from Surrey.  

[tommy]

yeah, that was a bit harsh.  sorry.

i just realized that i really don't know how to pronounce "boulud" either.

les halles was tricky for a while.  then i saw a pronunciation, which made it very easy.  then again, i couldn't pronounce massachussetts until i was about 20.  still can't spell it.

[Ron Johnson]

I have a friend who went to Craft last month.  He didn't like it, but now he pronounces it with the "ft" at end in a "p" sound.  Go figure.

[Damian]

On a somewhat related note.  Was anyone else annoyed to hell with the pronunciation of "Moulin Rouge" throughout the Oscars (and come to think of it in that song and probably the movie as well)?  Everyone who mentioned it pronounced it "Moo-lon."  It really grated on me after a while.  I don't know how to phonetically spell the correct pronunciation on the computer since it probably requires a "schwa" to do it correctly.  Needless to say, the French "-in" is not the same as "-on."  Also, the "n" is as silent as the "oo" in Bux's "oo-west."

[Wilfrid]

Yes, Damian, I am sufficiently grouchy to have been driven crazy by that 'Moul-on Rouge' nonsense throughout the release and promotion of the film, and every time I've heard about it.  What's so difficult.  I do, in fact, grate my teeth a little at the American pronunciation of quite a few French and Italian words.  I shouldn't, as I am a guest in this country.  But I do.  

I was about to give examples, but find I don't know how to spell them phonetically.  How about this?  Why say "bri-oash" when it's "bri-osh"?  Or "Ri-oa -ha" when it's "Ri- o - cha"?

[tommy]

one of the nice things about growing up in the US, which is barely over 2 centuries old (a drop in the bucket compared to most cultures) is that we aren't forced to learn other languages to compete in the world market.  you see, we actually *define* that market.  i suppose if we weren't the most powerful and arguably most "successful" country in the world, it might be in our best interest to learn several languages.  as it turns out, we're doing just fine without, save the occasional snide remark from arrogant foreigners (who generally are living in the US taking advantage of our economy and various freedoms).  as far as those foreigners becoming grouchy over our perceived ignorance, all i can say is, awesome dude

cheers maytes.  :p

[stefanyb]

I disagree with Stefanyb, while continuing to respect her.  I think Daniel is correctly pronounced "Don'yell".  An American accent (as opposed to a French accent) might make it sound more like "Dahn'yell" or "Dun'yell".  I agree with her about accenting the last syllable.

Wilfrid,  The French alphabet begins- ah bay say day (schwa) ef ghay etc.  Why wouldn't the "a" in Daniel be "ah"?  I, of course, acceed to your greater knowledge of worldly things especially since 1066AD.  

With respect to Les Halles, I actually asked, when I was in Arles, and was told that with a southern French accent its Lay Ahl'(schwa).

[stefanyb]

Maybe I'm putting the accent mark in the wrong place.  Does it go before or after the stressed syllable?  Writing by hand is easy to do but on the keyboard its not clear to me.

Also, its been my experience that Brits anglisize lots of French words that we, at least try to say in the French style, such as "marquis", and I can't think of any other right now but I know there are many.

Oh you dawgs.

[Bux]

 How about this?  Why say ... "Ri-oa -ha" when it's "Ri- o - cha"?

I've always heard rio-ha.

Jamon, Japon, etc. are hamon and Hapon where I've been.

I don't think Daniel is "Don'yell" either, but it may how I'm pronouncing Don. I'm wondering it the don sound isn't more suited to the French "en" as in "encore."

[macrosan]

Also, its been my experience that Brits anglisize lots of French words that we, at least try to say in the French style, such as "marquis", and I can't think of any other right now but I know there are many

Oh boy, I have to wonder at what experience you've had  :o  whilst (of course) continuing to respect you  :)

The French and the English (generally) pronounce it mar-kee. How do you pronounce it ?

[Wilfrid]

I agree, Macrosan, but to be fair there is an English title Marquess (as in Marquess of Bath) - probably a corruption of the French dating back to the 1000s - and that may be what Stefany heard.

Bux - maybe we are just having problems with our attempts phonetic spellings.  For me, the vowel sound in the first syllable of Daniel is pronounced the same as the vowel sound in the French words dans, andouille and indeed France.  I wouldn't say there's much difference to the vowel sound in the first syllable of encore, although maybe there's a subtle difference to French ears.  That is what I meant to signify by "Don...".  Stefany was going for an "ah" sound, with which I cordially disagree.