Corkage

[DRColby]

We dined last night at le Pitche. Before going we knew exactly what we were going to have (thanks to all the posts here): the chicken. Let me first say, it was excellent. We also had an idea what we wanted to drink, a nice French chardonnay or a dry Loire. Before the meal was over i had sprung for two demi-pitchers of Sancerre because, as the waiter said, "one is never enough." I don't mind reasonably priced wine cards. I do protest when I can't find what I think I want, or feel the price is high. I have taken bottles of wine into Seattle resturants before (not without asking first) and paid the corkage fee. Probably the nicest aspect of this is that you can take back out what you don't drink to finish it at home.

I know in SF I have watched as kinds of people pop in and out of a little deli across the street from a Puck resturant carrying out brown paper bags the shape of wine bottles. Somehow, I don't feel quite right with that kind of situation. Still, if I were to go to the Herbfarm again, and knew the advanced menu, I would probably bring a few bottles of my own.

Anyone have further thoughts on the "bring your own" program?

dave

[girl chow]

I think the topic of whether to bring your own wine has been addressed in other threads on the wine board. Maybe someone who is better at searching can link us to a thread on the subject?

I am by no means an etiquette queen at all and I have never brought my own wine to a restaurant, but from my experiences with wine etiquette in Seattle restaurants, my gut judgment is that it's appropriate to bring your own wine if you can't find the wine on the menu, it's a special occasion/special wine. For those reasons, wine stewards are happy to accomodate, I think. And I would expect a corkage fee to be automatic in those cases.

However, if the bottle of wine you bring is already available on the menu, I can't help but have this feeling that it's insulting to the restaurant to bring your own, especially if you're trying to save a buck or two. Maybe there's an element of snobbery in that notion, but if we expect restaurants to treat us with respect and give us the service we believe we deserve, then we as diners have a responsibility to reciprocate.

One thing I'll note is that wine prices can vary hugely from restaurant to restaurant and that's why I often opt for a single glass with dinner, considering my dining dollars are limited these days. And I'll never understand why some places charge a 100-200 percent markup and sometimes even more!! Still, restaurants have to make their profits somewhere and wine and liquor is where most of them do it. If I'm completely offended by the markup, I just won't drink the wine at all.

Hey, can we open up the discussion maybe to evaluate corkage fees in Seattle/Portland restaurants? Because I've never brought my own wine, I'm not really sure how much corkage fees vary. I've heard and seen prices mentioned from time to time, and my sense is that the fees range from $10-$20. It would be great to compile a fee list maybe for those who do want to bring that special anniversary bottle with them to dinner.

[tighe]

My only problem with corkage fees is that they've gotten so high. Most of the upper end places are charging at least $25 these days, which to me is a sure sign of trying to defend an overpriced wine list. It seems like $15 is should be entirely adequate. I'm getting tired of places who feel like its OK to not have anything on their list for under $50 (Canlis!). I totally understand restaurants who won't allow you to bring a wine that they already have on their list.

One of the other things DR mentions is the issue of taking left-over wine with you. I've never had a problem with doing that whether I brought the wine or bought it from the restaurant. I was at Mistral this weekend and we had two bottles of wine, but finished neither. They wrapped them for us to take with. Now, you're legally not supposed to have open containers of alcohol in the car, but that doesn't have anything to do with where you got it from.

[girl chow]

My only problem with corkage fees is that they've gotten so high.  Most of the upper end places are charging at least $25 these days, which to me is a sure sign of trying to defend an overpriced wine list.  It seems like $15 is should be entirely adequate.  I'm getting tired of places who feel like its OK to not have anything on their list for under $50 (Canlis!).  I totally understand restaurants who won't allow you to bring a wine that they already have on their list.

One of the other things DR mentions is the issue of taking left-over wine with you.  I've never had a problem with doing that whether I brought the wine or bought it from the restaurant.  I was at Mistral this weekend and we had two bottles of wine, but finished neither.  They wrapped them for us to take with.  Now, you're legally not supposed to have open containers of alcohol in the car, but that doesn't have anything to do with where you got it from.

Wow, $25 corkage fee? Geesh!!! See, I can't shell out those kinds of dollars anymore at dinner -- thanks to the house remodelling that is SUCKING ME DRY AND DRIVING ME NUTS!!!!

Tighe, it'd be interesting to sneak a copy of Canlis' wine menu and then do a reality comparison with how much the wines cost at a wine store. Then maybe a stats person out there could compile a spreadsheet on wine markups and corkage fees in Seattle restaurants

And I've always taken my half full bottle with me when leaving a restaurant, in fact I did just that a few weeks ago at Cyclops! Hell, I paid for it! That baby is mine! And I don't see why you shouldn't take it because the restaurant absolutely has to toss that bottle after you leave. I can't justify throwing wine in the garbage. That's a sin.

Are there any restaurants around here who won't let you take your already paid for bottle with you? I'd be interested in hearing about that.

[MsRamsey]

And I don't see why you shouldn't take it because the restaurant absolutely has to toss that bottle after you leave.

I think it's a lot more likely that the staff will drink it.

A couple of years ago, I remember Seattle Weekly or The Stranger complaining specifically about Canlis' wine mark-ups, not just once, but several weeks in a row.

[Schielke]

My only problem with corkage fees is that they've gotten so high.  Most of the upper end places are charging at least $25 these days, which to me is a sure sign of trying to defend an overpriced wine list.  It seems like $15 is should be entirely adequate.  I'm getting tired of places who feel like its OK to not have anything on their list for under $50 (Canlis!).  I totally understand restaurants who won't allow you to bring a wine that they already have on their list.

One of the other things DR mentions is the issue of taking left-over wine with you.  I've never had a problem with doing that whether I brought the wine or bought it from the restaurant.  I was at Mistral this weekend and we had two bottles of wine, but finished neither.  They wrapped them for us to take with.  Now, you're legally not supposed to have open containers of alcohol in the car, but that doesn't have anything to do with where you got it from.

Hey, now you are on the hook for a Mistral write up!

I do know that corkage at Mistral is $25 a bottle.

I have also heard about a place on Queen Anne where corkage is $10 and their markup on every single bottle of wine is only $10. An interesting concept.

Ben

[tighe]

Tighe, it'd be interesting to sneak a copy of Canlis' wine menu and then do a reality comparison with how much the wines cost at a wine store. Then maybe a stats person out there could compile a spreadsheet on wine markups and corkage fees in Seattle restaurants 

No need to sneak, you can see it in all its obscene-ness (58 pages!!) here:

Canlis Wine List

I haven't done any real thorough checking, but my recollection is that the markup is particularly offensive at the bottom end of their list.....

....Wait a second...now that I have actually perused the list a little looking for some egregious case of overpricing it appears that mighty Canlis may have had to bow to our current economic realities. I'm counting 6 Chardonnays under $40 and all at somewhat reasonable markups over retail. Damn, facts interfering with a perfectly good argument again! It is still hardly a bargain wine list. Harumph....

Addition: the idea of a systematic analysis of wine markups at different restaurants in town could be really interesting. If anyone is interested and would be willing to assist with data collection, I would be happy to play the role of "stats person" mentioned by gc....

Edited April 29, 2003 by tighe (log)

[Schielke]

You must be sneaking some of that take home wine from Mistral!

[tighe]

Hey, now you are on the hook for a Mistral write up!

All in good time my boy, all in good time......

Did I mention that the chef said he was still waiting to hear back from you on what kind of cooking class you wanted to set up for eGullet??

[girl chow]

I think it's a lot more likely that the staff will drink it.

That's what I would do if I was on the wait staff! I can't let a good bottle of wine go to waste (which is why I always take mine).

Hey, just out of curiousity, does anyone know for certain whether taking the wine with you might break liquor laws?

And I'd be curious to find out what the place is that Shielke mentioned. Is it 10 Mercer maybe? Are they still open? I do remember thinking that their markup was really really low and they had a very nice selection when I dined there a few years ago (haven't been back since).

[Schielke]

I recall reading that it was either a new policy or a new place. How is that for helpful?

Tighe, I can't wait for your review! I have been meaning to get a dinner there for some time, but money has been a little tight lately. The cooking class has been at the front of my mind recently. I am planning on giving him a ring pretty soon. I prety much have dropped the ball on this one.

Ben

[tighe]

Tighe, I can't wait for your review!  I have been meaning to get a dinner there for some time, but money has been a little tight lately.  The cooking class has been at the front of my mind recently.  I am planning on giving him a ring pretty soon.  I prety much have dropped the ball on this one.   

Ben, I'm only giving you a hard time because the chef pretty much told me to.... Well, OK, its also in my nature....

[Schielke]

No, I totally deserve a hard time!

Damn you Chef William!!!

[girl chow]

Addition: the idea of a systematic analysis of wine markups at different restaurants in town could be really interesting.  If anyone is interested and would be willing to assist with data collection, I would be happy to play the role of "stats person" mentioned by gc....

I'm in! I love asking restaurants for copies of their menus (wine and food). I have a giant collection of them. Most are out of date, but I'd love to go and get current copies of some of the better restaurants.

If there are enough volunteers, we can agree to divvy up the restaurants to research. We could come up with a format so that the data would be easy for tighe to enter/calculate. This sounds like a great project to discuss at the Great Wall dinner

[col klink]

Hey, just out of curiousity, does anyone know for certain whether taking the wine with you might break liquor laws?

I'm not sure about the liquor laws for the restaurants but bringing that bottle of wine back to your car could break the open contain law here.

"To comply with the federal requirements, a state's Open Container law must prohibit the possession of any open alcoholic beverage container, or the consumption of any alcoholic beverage, in the passenger area of any motor vehicle (including possession or consumption by the driver of the vehicle) located on a public highway, or the right-of-way of a public highway, in the State. The law must be enacted, in effect and enforced."

from http://www.ncsl.org/statefed/ocfaq1.htm

I'm not sure if Washington has added any additional requirements like California and Texas where you can't have any open alcoholic beverage anywhere in the inside of the vehicle.

When I was in Texas though you could drink in the back seat. 10 years ago a cop could pull you over with a beer in hand and as long as you weren't over the limit, you were let go.

[Schielke]

I think in Washington, the key part is 'passenger area'. If you stick it in your trunk, it should be cool. People with hatchbacks though should be careful, since it is an open area to the 'trunk'. I have a little smuggling compartment in my outback that I use to get around this.

Ben

[Batgrrrl]

I'm just finding myself baffled by you lightweights who can't finish a bottle of wine! But then again, klink and I are lushes.

B-gal

[Schielke]

I can finish a bottle of wine, but: Beep beep crash!

[girl chow]

"To comply with the federal requirements, a state's Open Container law must prohibit the possession of any open alcoholic beverage container, or the consumption of any alcoholic beverage, in the passenger area of any motor vehicle (including possession or consumption by the driver of the vehicle) located on a public highway, or the right-of-way of a public highway, in the State. The law must be enacted, in effect and enforced."

Crap, I better take my bottle of gin out from behind my sun visor

[LEdlund]

I have a vague recollection of an article I read years ago about a change in the liquor law to allow for taking unfinished wine home with you. I thought the reason for the change was because they found people were drinking more than they might otherwise, rather than having wine they paid for "go to waste". That, of course, the WSLCB does not want to encourage. I do remember the article saying it had to go in the trunk though.

I just found this on the WSLCB web site:

Can a partially consumed bottle of wine which was purchased with a meal in a restaurant, hotel or club be taken home?

Yes. The remaining portion of any wine purchased for consumption with a meal may be taken home, provided it is recorked or recapped in its original container

Lauren

Edited April 29, 2003 by LEdlund (log)

[girl chow]

I just found this on the WSLCB web site:

Can a partially consumed bottle of wine which was purchased with a meal in a restaurant, hotel or club be taken home?

Yes. The remaining portion of any wine purchased for consumption with a meal may be taken home, provided it is recorked or recapped in its original container

Thanks for clearing that up!

[col klink]

Yes. The remaining portion of any wine purchased for consumption with a meal may be taken home, provided it is recorked or recapped in its original container

Lauren

Thanks Lauren!

[DRColby]

We haven't taken our own wine into a Seattle resturant for a while. The last time, as I recall. the corkage was $15. We called in advance to see if it was okay. The experience was quite pleasant; the wine waiter (or solmier (sp) or whatever) admired the bottle, said we had good taste. and I think everyone felt good with a win-win situation: corkage with no tax to the state from the esblishment, 100 % profit off a couple of wine drinkers, and no inventory shrinkage. It's a real money maker.......

dave