Ever wonder why Syrah and Pinot taste the same ?

[Don Giovanni]

Ever wonder why Syrah and Pinot some times taste the same ?

Because they are related !!!

Genealogy of wine grape cultivars: 'Pinot' is related to 'Syrah'

'Syrah' parentage ('Dureza'  'Mondeuse Blanche')

As a consequence, 'Pinot' is more likely to be a 2° ancestor of 'Teroldego' and 'Dureza', a grandparent, an uncle or a half-sibling. Interestingly, our data and pedigree reconstruction suggest that 'Pinot' and 'Syrah' are 3° relatives, which has never been suspected before. These genetic relationships between 'Pinot' and 'Dureza' and between 'Pinot' and 'Syrah' could explain the high number of allele IBS observed among some 'Pinot'  'Syrah' crosses. This is consistent with the genetic distance between 'Pinot' and 'Syrah' (PSA=0.5) and between 'Pinot' and 'Dureza' (PSA=0.452). This pedigree is consistent with our data, but it contains several unknown cultivars. Yet, as most of them are likely to be extinct now (Scienza and Failla (1996) list more than 20 extinct cultivars in Trentino), it is possible that this pedigree will never be further improved.

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Enjoy...next time you do a blind taste and get the two mixed up you will know why...

Edited September 25, 2007 by Don Giovanni (log)

[Daniel Rogov]

John, Hi.....

What we are talking about in the kinship between Pinot Noir and Shiraz/Syrah is about the same as talking about the gene pool between newborn children and their great-great -great grandparents. In short, a good deal of genetic development has occurred along the way.

I would agree that at times one might confuse this varietal for the other. Much as one might confuse Merlot, Carmenere, Cabernet Sauvignon and Cabernet Franc. On the other hand, I would say that the person who confuses Pinot Noir and Syrah, the grapes raised in similar terroirs and in the same vintage year is either palate (or brain) dead or is reflecting the wine-making process far more than the differences/similarities between the grapes.

[Don Giovanni]

Daniel,

The point is that some people can't tell the difference...they did not know why...now they do...

I would agree that at times one might confuse this varietal for the other. Much as one might confuse Merlot, Carmenere, Cabernet Sauvignon and Cabernet Franc.

never had that problem...the true test would you be able to do it blind...another point is many people don't know that out of upwards of 10,000 wine grapes...we snuggle to very few, yet many are related...so if you like XYZ it may just happen that they are related...

[Daniel Rogov]

John, Hi.....

Not trying to pick a fight. Honestly! I recall the time that the great Broadbent tasted a Burgundy Pinot Noir in a blind tasting and identified it as a Bordeaux. A young journalist in the group gasped and asked how he could make such an error. Broadbent smiled and said: "Not to worry young man. It does not happen to me very often. Certainly not more than once a day"

[Don Giovanni]

John, Hi.....

Not trying to pick a fight.  Honestly!  I recall the time that the great Broadbent tasted a Burgundy Pinot Noir in a blind tasting and identified it as a Bordeaux.  A young journalist in the group gasped and asked how he could make such an error.  Broadbent smiled and said: "Not to worry young man.  It does not happen to me very often.  Certainly not more than once a day"

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Daniel,

I don't like to fight...not to worry... when you are a producer you develop a real taste for wines that are AVA specific...you learn them by smell alone...I once had to identify 3 of my Merlot's with out tasting them or looking at them only smelling them...now that's blind, or the customer told me they would not buy 2 cases of wine that they were going to...at first I thought it was a joke...well it was a real test...my wife making sure they played fair had me walk away with eyes shut I swirled and nailed each one without a taste...if I had to do this with wines I did not make I would be in Mr. Broadbent's camp...we are all human, the very power of suggestion is mind blowing...we like to play tricks on each other, you know winemakers...I took a bottle of cab franc to someone and labeled it cab sauv...well it was the best cab sauv. he ever had...he got me back almost with one of his wines...so yes people do mistake wines for others...how about the wine snob that I poured for that told me the cab franc was wonderful, I had to diplomatically tell him I must of miss spoke because you were drinking the Bold Merlot...ok a 7% CF blend in it...maybe that's what he picked up on...it's all fun at the end of the day...life is good...cheers....