John

SuperDawg does not make their own hot dogs. They are different than the usual Chicago Hot Dog in that they don't use the Vienna Frank. They use a brand called Sinai 48 which is made in Chicago by Best Kosher. This company also makes the Best Kosher brand as well as the Shofar brand sold in New Jersey. I think that all 3 brands may be made from the same recipe, but I'm not sure of this. The Sinai 48 dog served at Superdawg has a bolder, spicier flavor than the Vienna frank.

Correction: The Nathan's natural casing frank available at Costco and certain supermarkets comes 8 to a lb, not 9.

I got the Niman Ranch franks from a D'Artagnan's warehouse in Newark, and the Lobel's franks via mail order. I sampled these two "gourmet franks" along with a Nathan's that I defrosted from my freezer. Niman Ranch: 6/lb $8.25 per/lb natural lamb casing; pinkish in color. Lobel's: 9/lb $14.95 per/lb artificial (collagen?) casing; dark red in color. Nathan's: 9/lb $9.99 for 3 lbs natural sheep casing; light brown in color. All 3 franks are all beef. I brought a pot of water to boiling, shut off the heat, and simmerred the franks for 10 minutes. Then I finished them off on on a griddle, heating them on low heat for 15-20 minutes. The 2 "gourmet dogs" were taken out of the refrigerator 2 days after purchase; the Nathan's frank was out of the freezer (bought a month ago) and wrapped in foil to defrost in the refrigerator for 2 days. When I defrost frozen franks, I usually leave them out and cook them as soon as they defrost. Sometimes I just defrost them in the microwave. I think leaving them in the refrigerator for 2 days made them a tad dry. My observations. First the Niman Ranch dog. A tough casing; similar to Boar's Head and Grote & Weigel. A good flavor, a bit on the mild side. Indistinguishable from any decent beef frank. Not worth the price. Less fat and hormone free, but this doesn't matter to me; I just focus on taste. All in all, a decent beef dog that doesn't stand out. Again I suspect that a lot of it's popularity is due to the Niman Ranch name. Lobel's was similar. A less tough casing (which I prefer) and a good beef flavor. I think I preferred the flavor to the Niman Ranch dog. Maybe a little smokier, maybe a little spicier. But slightly better in my opinion. Definitely not worth $14.95. If you didn't know what you were tasting, you would probably say it is good; better than average, but not better than the best examples of a kosher style frank that is available in the New York/ New Jersey area. The Nathan's dog that I had was drier than it would be if it wasn't frozen and then left in the fridge for 2 days. I wish I would've had one straight out of the package from the Supermarket. The one I had was more similar to the Lobel's than to the Niman ranch. But a little spicier. And a little better. A fresher sample would've definitely been considerably better. To make a great hot dog takes more than using name brand beef. The spicing is probably more important. Although Nathan's, Sabrett, and Best Provisions of Newark do use quality meat for their franks and no fillers. All are smoked. And have a superior spice blend. I wanted to try Niman Ranch and Lobel's because I've heard so much about them. Just like I heard a lot about Usinger's a couple of years ago. And David Rosengarten picked Lobel's as the best example of an all beef N.Y./Chicago style dog. Plus a number of chefs supposedly prefer Niman Ranch. These two dogs are good. But they did not live up to the hype. Not the way that Usinger's did. Head and shoulders above these. Again, just my opinion. Usinger's is also much more reasonable in price. By the way, my wife preferred the Niman Ranch (although she disliked the tough casing) and the Nathan's to the Lobel's. She did like all 3, but she too prefers Usinger's. David Rosengarten also picked Schaller & Weber as his favorite German style frank. Baloney dog he called it. I was finally able to track this one down at a Kings. A very good frank. But not better than what I can get at 3 local German butchers in Union. And not close to Thuman's. My favorite frank in this style. My conclusion is that perhaps the best beef frank on the market, and the only one worth ordering through the mail (unless you live far from NY/NJ) is Usinger's. I haven't tried Klements yet. Sabrett and Nathan's are very good, and spicy like Usinger's. Best's has a great flavor, and is less spicy than these. Good if you like the Vienna Frank (milder), Best's has more flavor without being spicy for those who don't like heavy garlic/paprika. For beef and pork there is Thumann's. And then there is everyone else. It was great to try these products. After doing so, I am even more convinced that I wouldn't be blown away by the $19.00 Kobe Beef dog. But I don't suppose it will prevent me from plunking down the money for one next time I'm in New York.

Two brands of hot dogs that I haven't gotten around to trying are Niman Ranch and Lobel's. Both are considered gourmet franks, and quite expensive. I am having my wife order both for my upcoming birthday (she can't believe this is what I want for a present). I was wondering what your opinions are of these, as both are available in New York. Niman Ranch's fearless franks are available at Citarella's and D'Artagnan while Lobel's are available at their store and maybe elsewhere. I'd like to know what you think of these before I sample them. I've heard that the Niman Ranch dogs are beefy, smoky, and not as spicy as Nathan's or Sabrett. Also lower in fat and hormone free (whatever that has to do with taste). As for Lobel's they are $14.95 per lb and suppossedly made for them by an old Austrian butcher. The only dog I've had that was ever referred to as a gourmet dog was Usinger's Angus Frank. Looking forward to finding out if these two are really good, or just marketing hype. Usinger's is the real deal. Oh, the Niman Ranch franks are served at a place called Sparky's in Brooklyn.

The Luna Bell was a favorite of mine. They have been closed down for a couple of years now. The town used Eminent Domain to close it down in order to widen the highway.

No, I don't own it. Just had a good time being in such a unique place. I wrote to Weird New Jersey magazine and suggested that they check this place out. Plus, the owners got such a kick out of being mentioned on some other forums and in the Star Ledger. Just somewhere that has to be seen to be believed. The oldest operating business in Alpha.

It's funny that you can get Kunzler chicken franks around here, but not the regular ones. They also make an all beef frank which is ok, but not really kosher style. It lacks the garlic/paprika that the beef franks around here have. There is one place in N.J. on Florida Grove road in Seawaren that carries them. But you must buy them in bulk. Not worth it in my opinion. These franks are very average, but they like the milder flavor out in west Jersey/Pa. A number of places out there use this brand. Some use Berks. Like Toby's Cup. I personally like the Berks brand better. Tastes very good deep fried with a slice of pickle on it. The guys at Charlie's Pool room said the Berks was garbage.

The address is 1123 East Blvd. Alpha. Warning: those of you used to dining in Manhatten may experience culture shock. Tommy, I think this is a place that you would get a kick out of. I'd love for you to go and report back.

Yesterday I went to Charlies Pool Room in Alpha, N.J. It has a reputation for good hot dogs and was reviewed by the Star Ledger's Munchmobile last year. When judging hot dogs, I focus on the dog itself, not the atmosphere, service, location, or any other factor. But I would suggest going to Charlies at least once just for the experience. Simply because this place is so unique. In a rarity for me, I will be returning with friends/family more for the experience than the hot dogs. As for the dog, it is a Kunzler brand beef/pork dog. Keep in mind that this place is in West Jersey near the Pa. border. They prefer their dogs a little blander than what we would like here in the North Jersey/ N.Y. area. Kunzler is made in Lancaster County Pa. and is the dog of choice for many hot dog stands in the area including Sammy's, Charlies, Jimmie's, and Doc's Dog House. These places use a roller grill, or steam their dogs. Charlies cooks them in a frying pan with some oil in it. Cooked well done until the skin is slightly crisp, these dogs taste better than those at the other places using this same brand. And if you like condiments, they have a Hungarian sauce that they are famous for. Made by the same recipe that the owner's grandmother developed in 1925. It contains onions, ring peppers, hot peppers, celery, tomatoes, ketchup, mustard, salt, pepper, and a secret ingredient that the owners (brothers Joe and John Fencz) will not give away. I will not eat it because of the onions. But I brought some home and Mrs. Hot Dog Guy loved it. They get customers that come from all over the state to eat their hot dogs. Being a small place with only the 2 guys, they don't sell a lot of dogs. Maybe 400 a week. When they are mentioned in the paper, they sometimes get an extra 50 customers. Their father passed away last year at 92. Up until then he cut hair at a barber chair right behind the counter. This place has to be seen to be believed. A white shingled old house that used to be the local jail, it has a 1928 wooden cash register, one small table to eat at, and one pool table. They only sell hot dogs, Twizzlers, and Blow Pops. In the back behind the pool table is a narrow little hallway with a stove where they do the cooking. This leads into the small kitchen. There is only one pan to cook the dogs in, so you will probably have to wait. Younger brother John is the cook, while older brother Joe mans the register. I strongly suggest that you take a ride to Alpha to see this place for yourself. Good, unique dogs with a special sauce, served in a one of a kind place by some of the friendliest people you will meet. It's like a trip back in time. If you go, mention E-Gullet. And let us know what you think.

Holly, I spoke with the guy at Charlies Pool Room and he said that someone told him you were coming for a visit soon. A lot of people have mentioned this place as having great dogs. I think part of the attraction here is the atmosphere (like Hot Dog Johnny's); only this is an old white shingled house with squeaky hardwood floors that used to be a jail. One pool table and one table to eat on. And they only serve hot dogs. The other thing that people rave about is the secret Hungarian sauce. Developed by the owner's grandmother in 1925 it contains onions, ring peppers, hot peppers, celery, tomatoes, ketchup, mustard, salt, pepper, and a secret ingredient. I hate onions, so will probably just look at and sniff the sauce. Maybe force myself to taste some. The dogs themselves are Kunzler's beef and pork. I've had them and they are ok, not the best beef and pork dog available. From Pa. along with Berk's (which I prefer) that is used at Toby's Cup. These 2 brands are widely available in West Jersey and Pa. Around here, you can get Berks at the Acme, but Kunzler's only sells the Chicken franks. I got mine in Lancaster. I assume that the dogs will be ok; nothing out of the ordinary, but because of the famous sauce and ambience of this place, it has sort of a cult following. Recently the BBC in England visited and did a piece on them. They heard about Charlies from the Star Ledger review that was in last year's Munchmobile. They (BBC) also visted Law Dogs in California and 2 other places that I think were featured on the Hot Dog Program. I spoke with the owner of this place who acknowledges that a lot of his local customers are from North East Jersey and rave about the places here. He knows Rutt's, Galloping Hill, etc. by name although he hasn't been out here. He fries his dogs in a frying pan on the stove as they are ordered. Most places in West Jersey/Pa. steam or boil them. Toby's deep fries theirs. As for Grey's/Papaya King; both use the same Sabrett 10 to a lb dog. According to the guy in charge of private label at Marathon, they have the same ordering code on the box. Katz's dogs are larger (8 to a lb). When I went to Manhatten about 2 years ago, I tried all 3 places. The dogs were very similar, being the same brand and cooked the same way, but the Katz's dog wasn't cooked long enough. Same problem as a lot of Nathan's. Since I'm on vacation and won't have my family with me until Friday, this is my time for hot dog research. Yesterday I took some Nathan's, Best's, Sabrett, and Thumann's (their all beef dog) and cooked them on a griddle, while I cooked the larger Best's (5 to a lb like Syd's) and another Sabrett's on the backyard grill. All were great, and I would say of the same high quality. Differences were slight, and they were due to different spicings. The Best dog definitely tasted better on the grill. I liked this one the best. Identical to Syd's. I didn't care for it on the griddle, though. Not as much flavor as the others. This was the biggest difference. Nathan's and Sabrett taste great on the griddle and I would be hard pressed to say which I like better. I always preferred the Sabrett, because Gray's and Papaya King cook their dogs enough. Nathan's is great if you get one well done. The Thumann's had a unique subtle spicing that I liked. Just as good as the other 2 but slightly different; very slight. I think that I may be suffering from palate overload. I swear, after this week I won't look at a hot dog for at least a week. Maybe 2.

The Bagel Spot on Morris Ave. in Union has the best bagels I've tasted. This only includes about 15 or so places. But I liked them better than the Sonny Amster in the Millburn Mall.

Thank you Jin, I'm flattered. My next stop will be a place in West Jersey; Alpha, to be exact. Charlies Pool Room, which is an old building that used to be a jail. Original cash register from 1928. Dogs are cooked as ordered in a cast iron frying pan. The house specialty is a Hungarian style sause which was passed down from the grandmother. Anyone been to this place?

Being on vacation, I had a chance to get up to Madison Park today to try the Chicago Hot Dog. I got there early so that I wouldn't have to wait on line. I was the second person on line, and by the time they opened, there were 10 to 15 people behind me. I would guess that a lot of their customers are people who hang out in the park and listen to the free concert. Anyway, they sell a lot of dogs. From the above referenced article in the Chicago Tribune, this place serves an authentic Chicago style hot dog. The Vienna franks, rolls, and condiments are all from Chicago. For me, a lot of the enjoyment of sampling hot dogs is the anticipation of finally trying something that I've heard a lot about and forming my own opinion after hearing a lot of other people's. See the earlier thread on 11 Madison Hot Dog Stand elsewhere on Egullet. I ordered a Chicago Hot Dog and a New York hot dog. The New Yorker is a Vienna frank with mustard, relish, onion, and that red onion mix. I got mine with just mustard so I could really sample the vaunted Vienna Frank. I don't like to comment on something until I've tried it, but sometimes I have an idea whether or not I will like it. I never anticipated liking a Chicago style hot dog because of all the stuff they throw on it, and I consider myself something of a bear bones guy when it comes to hot dogs. A good quality dog (with casing) and some good mustard. Occassionally some Texas Weiner style chili or some of Rutt's Hut unique relish which goes great with their milder deep fried dog. I sampled the New York dog first. The Vienna (all beef) frank was ok, but very mild for an all beef dog. And skinless. Good size (8 to a lb rather than 10 like the streetcart dogs), but as Holly said in the Chicago thread, not as flavorfull or spicy as a Sabrett, Nathan's, or Usinger's. And definitely not as good. Mild, with a slight aftertaste reminding me somewhat of the spicing in a piece of corn beef; but very subdued. This dog was the same size and shape of a Best (N.J.) skinless dog sold in the supermarket. It even tasted a little bit like Best, but much lighter in flavor. In fact, I would describe this as a Best light. I know that a boiled Vienna frank is the Chicago style, but I would have liked this dog better if it had a natural casing and was grilled. On to the Chicago dog. As for appearance, I would say that this dog is closer in appearance to Byron's than any of the other dogs pictured on Holly's web page. A lot of condiments rather than a little like Gene and Jude's. The lettuce, tomatoes, cucumber's, relish, etc were good. And fresh. And it was great to finally try an authentic Chicago Hot Dog. With an open mind. But I must say that it was pretty much what I expected. I enjoyed the contrast between cold vegetables and hot meat. But for me, the hot dog's the thing. And you would be hard pressed to identify even a spicier, bolder frank under all the ingredients contained on this dog. It really is a salad dog. Not bad, and I can understand how some people may like it. But it is not for me. Ok in the park, but given a choice, I'd take a grilled Nathan's or Gray's any day. After finishing my dogs, I took the subway to Times Square in search of Papaya King. I found out that this location went out of business. I walked down to Gray's on 8th and 36th. Had one of their well done grilled dogs. I enjoyed this one much more. I spoke with someone working there who confirmed that the dogs are 10 to a lb Sabrett's. I also found out that the mustard is Sabrett's. Very good mustard. I suspect that if I lived in Chicago, I would go for one of the places like Gold Coast or Weiner's Circle that charbroil their dogs. And use the natural casing Viennas. Again I must say that no place compares to New Jersey as far as the quality and variety of hot dogs. Although Connecticut and New York are gaining some ground. Since Crif Dogs opened up, you can get something similar to a north Jersey deep fried dog in N.Y. I do take issue with the writer from the Chicago Tribune who said, "Compared with the bland tubes of mystery meat for sale at most street corner carts, the typical Chicago hot dog is meaty and has more spice. And following Chicago custom, the specimens sold at the Madison Ave Park stand are boiled, not grilled." Well, they are boiled, not grilled, and at 8 to a lb are a little bigger than the 10 to a lb boiled sabretts sold at most street carts. But no way does the Chicago dog have more spice. And if a boiled Sabrett is bland, than the Vienna would have to be considered less than bland.

In an earlier thread about 11 Madison Hot Dog Cart, it was stated that the dog used was a Usinger's all beef. This was even quoted in an article in Time Out magazine. Apparently they use a Vienna beef dog. This would make sense because it is the preferred brand for an authentic Chicago style hot dog. I've had the Vienna beef (although a long time ago) and a Chicago style hot dog served at a place called Uncle Frankies in Bayville, N.J. Keeping in mind what Harry said (and what I always say) about taste being subjective, let me say that I was not impressed by the Vienna Frank or the Chicago style hot dog. I will be on vacation next week, so I will give this place a try and go there with an open mind and palate. For me, the dog is the main attraction, and there is too much crap on a Chicago hot dog. And from what I remeber, the Vienna frank was ok; nothing special. Certainly not as good as Usinger's. A beef dog can be ok boiled, but is much better grilled. The Sabrett's grilled at Gray's are small, but I think much tastier. I'll know for sure next week. For a great beef dog, come to N.J. and try a dog from Syd's. A big 5 to a lb Best's brand dog simmered (not boiled) in water, then charbroiled. A great blend of spices with a perfect casing and texture. Also, try a bigger Sabrett (8 to a lb) with casing and slow cook it on a griddle. These are great dogs that can be found locally. Or go for a Usinger's from Milwaukee. But you have to order from their website. I don't put much stock in atmosphere or other outside factors. I've tried these dogs numerous times, so if my tastebuds are off on a given day, I still have the other times to go by. Some people love Hot Dog Johnny's because it is in a scenic part of west Jersey and it brings back memories of when they used to go there as children. This is fine, but doesn't make a dog taste any better. At least not for me. If you like a German style beef and pork dog like Hoffmann's; let me suggest Thumann's in the blue and white package. This dog has more flavor than their dog made for deep frying. It is juicy, tender, and delicious. Maybe the best dog available anywhere.

Here in North Central New Jersey, we don't have access to Hoffman's, but that will change soon. There will be a new Wegman's in Woodbridge and they will be carrying the Hoffman brand. I know that it is a German style beef and pork dog that is considered to be very good. Someone I know from Hartford, Conn. who lived near Syracuse is opening a hot dog restaurant in a matter of weeks. He spoke highly of Hoffman's and considered using them in his restaurant. He thinks that they are the best in N.Y. Have you tried Sahlen's? They are the dog served at Ted's in Buffalo and Tonawanda. I spoke with this person who was looking for suggestions on German style dogs to use for his restaurant. He liked Hoffman's, as I said, and since he will be located in Hartford Conn., decided to sample a few Conn. dogs, his favorite being from Miller Provisions in Stratford. This is the dog served at Super Duper Weenie in Fairfield. I've had it, and in my opinion, it is one of the best dogs of this type that I've had. However, I think that Thumann's is the best. Made in East Rutherford, N.J. He got ahold of some Thumann's from a distributor, then assembled a bunch of friends. They tried Thumann's, Miller's, Hoffman's, Grote & Weigel, Sabrett, Hummels, and a few others. Thumann's was the choice of about half, then Miller's, then Hoffman's. The restaurant will be going with Thumann's. Taste is subjective, but the consensus was that Thumann's was tastier, and the dog of choice if the focus is on the dog alone without fancy condiments. Miller's and Hoffman's would be a better choice if you are going to serve chili and other condiments, as these two brands are tasty, but not too tasty that they clash with the other ingredients that may be offered. Have you tried any of these brands? What do you think of them? I'm looking forward to trying Hoffman's when they come to Wegman's. Also looking to try the Sahlen's brand. Welcome to E-Gullet.

Hot Dogs.

I took a ride up north to try J&H, Goffle Grill, and Clixes. Clixes was closed. The regular dog at J&H was ok; kind of what I expected from the Thumann's deep fried dog. Chili also ok; good, but not as good as the Hot Grill which I consider the standard for thin "all the way sauce". This dog is similar in texture to Libby's, Hiram's and the old Eagan's. They would be better cooked longer. I also ordered the beef dog. This was a footlong Thumann's beef dog with a nice crunchy skin. It was also cooked longer than the first one. An excellent kosher style all beef dog cooked just right. The best one of the day. It's been awhile since I went to the Goffle Grill. At least 3 or 4 years ago. I enjoyed the dog (same Thumann's pork/beef for deep frying). This one was more well done than the pork/beef one at Johnny and Hanges. The chili was ok; had a peppery flavor that I didn't really care for. But the dog itself, is probably the closest to Rutt's Hut in terms of being cooked longer. For a Texas Weiner, I prefer the Hot Grill even though they don't use the Thumann's dog (they use a Sabrett pork/beef mix, same as Callahan's) because the chili is so good and just the right temperature; hot, without being too hot. And the dog is cooked longer than Libby's, Hiram's, and J&H. I go to Rutt's, the Hot Grill, and Libby's quite frequently so I am familiar with the dogs and their textures which are pretty consistent for the most part. Today was the first time I've been to J&H's and the first time in a long time for the Goffle Grill, so I can't vouch for their consistency. Especially when Rail Paul said his dog was more charred at J&H than Goffle Grill. With me it was the opposite. I would stay with the Hot Grill for a Texas Weiner all the way, and Rutt's Hut for a well done deep fried dog (with their fantastic relish) and go to Johnny and Hanges for a spicier, crunchy deep fried beef dog. Will hit Clixes next time.

Chef, Have you ever tasted some of our great American microbrews? It's easy to say that Bud is lousy, but that is a generalization when it comes to American beer. Sierra Nevada, Anchor Liberty, Victory beers (Hop Devil in particular) Rogue, etc are but a few examples of great American beer. Canada has some great micros as well. I've had St Ambrose and Mcauslan beers, and they are indeed top of the line. Mc Auslan uses the special Ringwood yeast from England that was introduced to North America by Alan Pugsley. Geary's of Maine was one of the first American breweries to use this particular strain of yeast, and I believe it was before McAuslan. For summer beers, I like Pilsner Urquell (it's one of the best, if not the best beer for anytime), Dinkel Acker (light, yet tasty) and Franziskaner Hefe Weiss (no better beer for warm weather).

Rail Paul, Enjoyed the reviews. I've been to the Goffle Grill, but not to Johnny and Hanges. I'm on vacation this week, and will definitely go there as well as a few more places. According to my friend at Thumann's, both places use their products. Johnny's also serves Thumann's all beef dog as well as the standard pork/beef dog for deep frying that many places use including Rutt's Hut, Libby's, and Hiram's. I would imagine that you have to specify all beef if you want that; otherwise you'll be served the one with pork. I'll find out when I go. The standard Thumann's dog for grilling is 3 parts pork to 1 part beef. The Thumann's for deep frying is even higher; closer to 80%. Out of the places that serve this dog, I've always preferred Rutt's because the rippers are cooked more than the other places and I generally prefer the wellers. From what I've heard, most places that serve the deep fried dog blanch them. Rutt's does not. This may account for a difference in flavor. As for the thinner chili sauce (or "all the way" sauce) this is a Paterson/Clifton area thing. I didn't care for this type at first, but after tasting the chili at the Hot Grill, I've sort of aquired a taste for it. The Texas Weiner places in the Plainfield area (they grill them here) use a thicker chili that may be more to your liking.

I kept checking the Times archives for this article, hoping it would be put online. I bought a few copies of the paper, but I have friends and relatives in other states that don't have access to the Times, so I wanted to send them a link to the article. I e-mailed the Times, and was told that it was in the "premium archives" and that I would have to use quotation marks when searching, and that I would have to order it for a small fee. I had no success doing this. In fact, I was billed for an article that I did not order and never even heard of. Finally they sent me the right article in an e-mail. If anyone wants to read this article, please e-mail me, and I'll forward it to you. Just ignore the beginning and scroll down to the actual article.

For those of you who live in or near New Jersey, I suggest you try the brats from the Union Pork Store on Morris Ave. in Union. I haven't tried nearly as many brands of bratwurst as I have hot dogs, but those from the Union Pork Store are the best I've had. And I've had Usinger's and quite a few other brats from nearby German butchers. This is a pork and veal brat that is out of this world. A German guy that I know of is something of a bratwurst connissuer, and he loves these above all others, including those he's tried in Germany. In fact, he travels a couple of hundred miles roundtrip from Pennsylvania every so often to buy these brats for his parties.

I've been going to the Hot Grill the last couple of years. I buy their chili sauce to use at home, so I'm there every couple of weeks, and I usually have a dog or 2 while I'm there. I haven't noticed any difference in taste or quality. However, I know they get their franks from 2 different sources. Before about 2 or 3 years ago, they used a dog from Sabrett exclusively. This dog is approximately 50% beef and 50% pork. The same dog (recipe wise) is used at Callahan's and the Windmill, although the dogs at these 2 places are bigger. A couple of years ago, I was talking with the New Jersey distributor of Grote and Weigel, a Connecticut hot dog and cold cut manufacturer. A salesman was there also, and he told me that he often goes to hot dog restaurants and tries to get them to switch to his brand. He usually doesn't have much success because these restaurants often have long term business relationships and are reluctant to change. Plus it would turn off a lot of customers who are used to what they have been eating over the years. Anyway, this salesman happenned to show up on a day when one of the owners was angry at the Sabrett distributor because there was a problem with their supplies getting there, as they do a lot of business at the Hot Grill. The owner put in a large order for a similar product from Grote & Weigle. He continues to order from both Grote & Weigel and Sabrett. This was confirmed to me by someone at Sabrett as well as someone from the Hot Grill. Shortly after they began ordering dogs from Grote & Weigel, they took off a sentence from their website that stated that they use Sabrett franks. I can't really notice a difference. The dog is mildly spiced, even a little bland. It tastes good deep fried with the excellent chili sauce. I think the dog is intentionally blander, as the focus is on the chili here. For anyone interesyed, there will be an article in Sunday's New York Times (N.J. section) about some nut's passion for hot dogs. Word has it that there will be a mention of Egullet.

Cricket, Welcome! have you tried any imported beers or quality craft brews from American microbreweries? There is so much variety to choose from. It's hard to pick a favorite because of the many styles, but I like Pilsner Urquell (be carefull, not all samples are fresh; find a place with quick turnover) Great Lakes Dortmunder style (Cleveland) Anchor Liberty Ale (San Francisco) and Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout (England). And my homebrewed beer.

According to their website, Papaya King has locations at West 43rd st, 121 West 125th St (Harlem, I think), at the 125th St Staion between the 2 and 3 lines, and at the 85th st station near lexington Ave. between 4,5, and 6 lines.

Menton 1, A while back I wrote a few in depth posts about how Papaya King, Gray's, and Katz's all use the same basic dog. You can find the whole story in one of the previous hot dog posts (Maybe Battle of the Fort Lee Dogs, Rutt's Hut, or the Quintessential New York Dog). To summarize real quick, I found out from a Sabrett distributor and the person in charge of private label at Marathon that Sabrett has only 2 recipes; an all beef and a beef and pork blend. These dogs come either skinless or with casing. They also come in different sizes. But the dogs used at both Papaya places are the exact same. 10 to a lb sabrett w/casing. They have the same product # or code. Katz's are a little bigger; maybe 7 or 8 to a lb. We spoke in depth about this. Any differences perceived are either imaginary, or more likely have to do with how long they are cooked; what temperature, maybe if the griddle is sprayed with something, the use of foil, etc. Just this weekend I happenned to come across a post on another forum where the poster said that his father worked for Sabrett for 41 years. I e-mailed this guy and found out that his father delivered to the New York places mentioned, and others not mentioned from 1960 to 1982. He also confirmed that these places use the same recipe dog. He also gave me other information. The beef/pork dog produced by Sabrett is considered by them at least to be a cheaper grade. It is called "Country Girl" and is served at the Hot Grill, Callahan's, and the Windmill; all in Jersey. This man also said that it was a sad day for them when Sabrett was taken over by Marathon some years back. According to him, the original owners never used fillers or cut corners.