slkinsey

Hmmmm... You know... I can understand what might make one bottle of aceto balsamico tradizionale worth a hundred dollars where others are worth fifty because you can taste/experience a clear difference (more aged, thicker, etc.). But I am at a complete loss as to what could make one liter of evoo worth a hundred dollars where other amazingly good bottles cost fifty dollars or even thirty dollars. I mean, what could this guy be doing that is so different from what everyone else is doing, and does it make a difference? I have to wonder whether Per mio figlio evoo would be a clear winner against, say, Rocca della Macia evoo in a side-by-side tasting.

Ah... except that it's making a comeback, at least at Grand Sichuan International Midtown, it is.

I think that's probably true of a certain set of people in New York. But, in a city of this size, I don't think one can overestimate the number of fabulously wealthy people who live here. There are plenty of people in NYC who eat out at three and four star restaurants 5 to 8 times a week. Certainly it is not unusual for a wealthy businessperson to eat lunch at a top-tier restaurant (perhaps even the same top-tier restaurant) every day during the work week. I know relatively young people in big money-making careers who eat at a three or four star place on at least a weekly basis. For these people, I don't know that trendiness and newness makes a big difference. Now, I certainly do know a whole crowd of people for whom getting their early or (preferably) first while the scene is still hot is a major big deal. For example, I have friends who would much rather have gone to Per Se in the opening week than 6 months later when the restaurant had really started to hum -- and it's not like going both times was financially possible. Besides, Per Se won't be the hip, new "scene place" in six months. But, I don't think these are the diners that keep a restaurant alive and vital, and these are not the diners who are going back to AD/NY and Mix, Daniel and Cafe Boulud again and again.

Babka, I think this has to several things... First, New York is, as you may well imagine, a gigantic city. This means that one is almost always able to find a fairly large group of people who share even a relatively obscure interest. What this means is that people like Steven and Bux and me and et cetera are able to accumulate a decent sized circle of friends who like to talk about food, and certain aspects of cuisine, to the same degree that we do. This element, I think, is not to be underestimated. For example, compare New York with Washington DC as others have done in this thread. Washington is by no means a small town, but consider the following: The population of NY as of 2000 is 8,008,278. The population of DC as of 2000 is 527,059. NYC is roughly fifteen times the size of DC. This means that, assuming that the culture of both cities is exactly the same, there would be fifteen intellectual foodies in NYC to every one in DC. Second, of course the cultures of various cities in the States is not the same. For a variety of reasons, NYC is the "cultural and high art capital of America." This is to say that we have more arts institutions, more leading arts institutions and a more highly developed art culture than any other city in the US. This goes from places like the Lincoln Center entities (Metropolitan Opera, NY Philharmonic, etc.) and Carnegie Hall to the Museum Mile entities (Met Museum, Gugenheim, etc.) and similar cultural institutions to Broadway and Off-Broadway and Off-Off-Broadway (etc.) to the SoHo galleries to the Fashion industry to the Publishing industry and so on. People with a professional or strong personal interest in these things tend to gravitate to New York, and as a result we tend to have a higher percentage or people who like to analyze and talk about the subjects that interest them much the same way they might talk about the theater or a sculpture or a piece of literature. Similarly, I am sure that many discussions and ways of looking at things common to Los Angeles are influenced by that city's position as the center of the television program and movie making entertainment industry. Going back to the earlier comparison, what this means is that there will be more like one hundred intellectual foodies in NYC to every one in DC. In my own personal experience, conversations like those used as examples in this thread are not all that unusual. This is not to say, of course, that there aren't plenty of great things about other cities in the US and plenty of great reasons to want to live in them -- nor that there aren't plenty of bad things about NYC. All that said, however... to be honest, I think that the effect you have perceived on these boards is more due to the fact that users like Fat Guy, Bux, etc. happen to live in NYC. Now, it may be the case (and indeed I am making the case) that NYC generally has more of this type of person than other American cities. But if it just so happened that these members lived in, say Portland -- and I am sure that such people are to be found there -- you might be saying the same thing about discussion in the PNW forum.

Yea, lunch is an amazing bargain -- probably one of the best in the city for a restaurant of that caliber. I'd go back for that in a second. The other thing I forgot to mention... we me there for lunch at 1:30, which didn't strike me as all that late. But it quickly became apparent that we were their last lunch seating, and we more or less had the place to ourselves from 2:15 to 3:30. What was great about that is that we were totally comfortable, didn't feel like eyes were on us, didn't feel any pressure to hurry our meal, basically were made to feel that it was their pleasure to have us there for a long lunch. When it came time to ask for the check, I had only to look back at the waiter's station where I immediately caught our waiter's eye and he came over with the check already prepared. This highly trained, entirely unobtrusive yet always available service that is not stuffy or overly formal is really something I appreciate and one of the things I feel makes a big difference between a two star and a three star place. Oh, and one other thing... It was very interesting for me to eat at what is more or less a neo-French fish restaurant, because I tend to favor more simple, elemental fish preparations such as one finds in Italian cooking. Both JJ and I agreed that the dishes there, while really quite excellent, did not necessarily highlight the essence of the main ingredient the way they do at, say, Esca. This is to say that the halibut dish, which I really enjoyed and would order again in a second, was not exactly bursting with halibut flavor. Rather, the chicken liver jus seemed to play the starring role and the halibut was a textural companion offering some flavor accents. Indeed, if I were to get really picky I'd say the halibut was slightly overcooked to my taste when I tried it on its own, and could have been moister. But, interestingly, this didn't really detract from my enjoyment of the dish the way it might have in a more minimalistic Italian-influenced presentation.

JJ, great write up, dude. I am not sure I have much to add to what you have said. Since we talked about the dishes as we ate them, you've captured my impressions very well. The one thing I'd mention is that it is damn reasonable for lunch at a 3 star place. We ate a lot of food and ended up spending around 80 bucks a person. Probably would have spent around 65 if we had each had a glass of wine instead of the half bottle of riesling.

Yep. That's in my 'hood. The service was terrible when they first started out, but now it is a pretty damn good place. The best things on the menu also tend to be the least expensive (skirt steak and pork chop), which is nice. Not sure I'd travel to eat there, but it's a good neighborhood place.

Sounds cool. Eric Malson told me about a great place for an even bigger, guttier mixed grill we have to try.

Interesting... It's like she went to Hearth with Ellen Shapiro.

Aaaaaaaw, Momie! Personally, I think you guys should have gone in there and taken one for the team.

What I get out of this is that your Italian MIL uses home-canned tomatoes 95% of the time instead of factory-canned tomatoes. Well, by all means, people who have access to home canned tomatoes should certainly avail themseves of that product for their sauces. But still... the fact remains that very few fully-cooked tomato sauces in Italy are made with fresh tomatoes as opposed to canned/jarred tomatoes.

(ahem) Get your ass back to work, Shaw!

Well... first of all, I'd lose the fresh tomatoes. Do what they do in Italy and find yourself a big can of peeled whole San Marzano tomatoes. Fresh tomatoes should only be used in quickly cooked sauces that are designed to emphasize the freshness of the primary ingredient. Second, what are you going after for your pizza sauce? If you want something simple, subtle and robust for the pizza, I'd suggest using nothing more than salt, pepper, hand-crushed San Marzano tomatoes and plenty of good quality evoo. The reason your FIL's sauce is more subtle and yet better is likely because it has better primary ingredients and less other stuff. No onion. No garlic. No herbs. Maybe a little top-quality concentrato (tomato paste) if you think it needs to have a thicker consistency. Cook together for around 30 minutes, dress with additional evoo off the heat. Cook the concentrato alone in the oil before adding tomatoes if you want to use concentrato. All herbs, etc. you can add raw to the pizza when you bake it (or, better yet, after you take it out of the oven). This is a reasonable facsimile of the Neapolitan way, the main difference being that a wood fired oven is to hot that the sauce wouldn't be cooked at all -- the canned tomatoes, evoo and salt would be put on the crust raw and would cook in the heat of the oven. If you really want to add the onion and minced garlic and use a slow cooker, make sure you cook the garlic and onion in a little evoo before adding it to the cooker. Onion and garlic will never cook properly if they are just simmered in the sauce rather than being softened first in fat.

Dude. That is fucking awesome.

Bibimbap, as it is usually spelled, is basically a bowl of rice with vegetables and sometimes meat on top. Sometimes in a stone bowl. Good information may be found in this thread.

Well... Affidélices is the only "Epoisses-like" cheese out there of which I am aware. Perhaps it was a good Taleggio or Robiola Lombardia (Robiola Lombardia is a small Taleggio, really)?

Keith, did you read the reviews on Amazon before you bought it? They're all pretty condemning. When several reviews mention that they only awarded one star because there was no lower rating... that's usually a pretty clear sign that it's a piece of junk.

I am almost positive it will turn out to be Affidélices. This is a specialty cheese made by Fromagerie Berthaut in Bourgogne, which makes some of the best Epoisses to be had. Essentially, Affidélices is an Epoisses de Bourgogne that is washed with Chablis instead of marc. It is also a little smaller. I have found excellent examples of Affidélices at Fairway on 74th street.

That will be so cool! Tell him he should buy a bottle in one of those cardboard tubes so he'll get the full brochure. Man, I'd sure love to have my own cask of... eherm... twenty-eight year old scotch right now.

It's been a while for me, but as of 3 years ago I'd say they definitely were. Back then, though, JGV was running only three places, not 7 or however many it is now.

Bruichladdich is good stuff. It's probably the lightest and least emphatically peaty Islay malt, and therefore does not accord well with my personal preferences, but it is a very well done scotch. Interestingly, for the cask offer one may choose either regular Bruichladdich or "Port Charlotte" as the base spirit. Apparently Port Charlotte is a relatively new secondary distallate at Bruichladdich, and it is quite peaty. I'd probably choose this for the cask offer, myself. Prices are as follows: Barrels - 200 Bulk Litres - Refill Bourbon £775 - Rum (very limited availability) £895 Hogsheads - 250 Bulk Litres - Refill Bourbon £995 - Refill Sherry £1,050 - Fresh Sherry £1,100 Butts - 500 Bulk Litres - Refill Sherry £2,100 - Fresh Sherry £2,195 The casks are stored free of charge for the first ten years, and thereafter for a small premium charge (currently £20 per annum for a hoggshead).

In any event, I think we've played out this fork of the discussion and would like to see us getting back to whether there are any similarities between the state of Jean-Georges' culinary empire and Fonzie waterskiiing over a shark.

Well, coughy, you probably don't understand the sub-- HEY! Curses, Tommy!! Seriously, though, people who are expecting "big, bold flavors" and "exciting" food are probably not going to like Blue Hill as much. That's not their thing. On the other hand, maybe it was something else that didn't do it for you at Blue Hill. coughy, what was it that you found underwhelming?

A friend brought over a bottle of Bruichladdich single malt the other night. In the packaging was an interesting brochure. Bruichladdich is offering a program whereby you can buy an entire cask of scotch right out of the still, age it with them as long as you like and have them bottle it however you like. Sounds like an interesting idea... although it will take 15 to 30 years before you see any real results, so it's a long-term investment. Would be a wonderful gift for a newborn son or daughter. Who wouldn't want their very own cask of 30 year old single malt for their 30th birthday?

Well... it's a subtle distinction. The Thai element was watered down and then it was watered back up with the French element... or was it the other way around? Either way it's... er... fully watered. Seriously, though, and what I think Tommy is getting at... any "fusion cuisine" can be seen as "watered down whatever" depending on one's perspective. On the other hand, one can look at it as something that is neither Thai nor French but something different with elements of both traditions that stands on its own. The point, I guess, is that if one goes in experiencing the food from a Thai or French perspective, then it will tend to taste watered down because it does depart from those traditions.