Mr. Mike

WOW... a LOT has been covered here since I last posted...a LOOOOoooOOOnG time ago. There a lot of good new questions and results posts and a few of the typical "old" question topics... oil issues... icing-de-icing and food not dry enough, how many lbs can you dry. etc... For those that have not scrolled thru the previous early pages... Along, long time ago. I still rememger (sounds like the beginning of Americam Pie.. lol) when I put a list together. A "UL" list my .. Mr. Mike "Universal Laws" of freeze drying list... i.e. My experiences from the early days when there weren't many people that owned any FD's. This should ring a few bells for the older members and maybe enlighten some new combers. http://forums.egullet.org/topic/150588-freeze-dryers-and-freeze-dried-food-part-2/#entry2005558 I need to post more..sorry for being out of touch...I have been REALLY swamped with my business and haven't been doing much drying with my machines. Hope this helps. Mr. Mike

Dregs: If you read one of my previous posts about rocking the pump end to end while draining the oil and adding more oil to continue the float the "dregs" out.. that should help clean the pump of debris. When I say rock back and forth.. I mean tilting-rocking the front of drain area to rear of motor direction. I tilt the motor housing at least 30- 45 deg from horizontal back and forth several times then open up the drain, tilt foward at least 30 deg. and let'er flow. Close the valve, add more oil. Rinse.. Repeat.. Each time-(rocking) adding more oil to float, wash, clean the particulate out. It looks like the small pieces of hamburger left in the bottom of the pan after browning. .. small little chunky stuff. I add oil (2-3 Tbls) and rock unitl very little particulate comes out. My experiences..."Your mileage may vary." Mr. Mike

"I Wish" Functions: In talking with the HR owners When I bought my machine about a year ago.... I had all kinds of ideas for improvement... (the Process Eng in me wanting to improve the machine-process).. it basically comes down to Cost. HR. "could" add all kinds of options... and drive up the cost. Their objective is to have a machine that is as inexpensive as they can make and have a repeatable, reliable freeze drying process. They (HR) incorporated some of my ideas as the improvement recommended really didn't add too much cost, but did improve basic function or safety. Mr. Mike

This thread is to post the drying results here so it doesn't bog down the original thread. The information will then be taken and made as part of a larger reference document for anyone getting into freeze drying to help answer questions and hopefully reduce redundant posts on the main FD thread.. This effort is to hopefully make the start up and use of the dryers easier while reduce the problems that new owners experience. Hope this helps. Mike

The brand I have is the All American 8000. It is motorized, cam operated and seals #10 cans. This is where I ordered it from. http://www.canningpantry.com/electric-can-sealer-8000.html I used a "sem-auto" sealer in the Y2 days... it was motorized, but you had to hand operated the cam rollers to roll the lip to make the seal. THAT was hail on the arms with just that manual step. The reason I choose this unit was the robust design, pretty much "full auto" operation. Set your can after filling with the food item. O2 absorber and lid was in position and then push the "start lever".. lifting the can-pressing start to begin the sealing cycle. The machine starts rotating, rolling the edge and sealing until the cam stops the action for the cycle..bout 7-10 seconds for a sealing cycle. In theory.. you could crank out 5-7 can/min IF everything was running smoothly... and sometimes it did... but "Murphy's law" was always around. I bought my supplies from the LDS locally.. I'm not an LDS member...just support them by buying their products. To can dry goods efficiently it takes 5-7 people... other wise it's a "herky jerky" process flow. 1 person to blow out the cans and load the filling table. and pre-stage food to be poured. 2 people to open bags, pour contents, level material-clean rim, place O2 absorber and set the lid. 1 person to roll seal the cans. 1 person to make labels as needed, label each can of contents and place cans and 1 plastic lid in each box. 6 cans/box. 1 person label box of contents, stack and tape up new boxes. 1 person as a "floater" to help smooth the bottle necks for processing. Rinse-repeat. There are other items needed .. buss tubs to put the cans into and catch "over flow" as you fill them, a "lip straightener" for slightly bent cans rims, S. steel tables on rollers for easy positioning as/where needed. Air compresser-nozzle used to blow out the cans, labels, sharpies; LOTs of sharpies. tape guns-packing tape min. of 2-3 needed for taping up boxes. Anti fatigue mats for those standing in place on concrete. Have to have a truck to get the pallets of cans, lids, O2 absorbers, boxes etc.. Note: a pallet had something like 450 cans per. It took us bout 5-6 hours to go thru 1.5 pallets of cans.. still have some left. Now.. the Money side of things..I thought of a way to "pay" for the machine by sealing the kids gifts up in the can(s). i.e. "Child Proofing Christmas Gifts-Stocking stuffers" I was going to get a trailer that could hold 2-3 pallets of cans, the machine, generator for power, processing tables for putting "what ever" the gift needing canned-No raw food items... colored tissue paper, confetti etc in the can and sealing it right there with labels mad up from the customer. 8.00 for one can and two for 15 buxs. The process would take Maaaaby" 3 minutes.. with a helper.. Take money, stage gifts, insert paper-gift seal and then slide the gift for customer pick up.. Think about it.. ..bout 200-300.00 buxs an hour potential in the right location.... OK.. 100.00/hr if it was "slow" Then you could sell a "P38" the old military can opener that has the "hook" the pierces the lid manually as you rotate it around the rim...just for kicks to watch the kids "struggle" to open THAT present. I always nixed the idea due to "Seasonal outdoor activities" in the fall that took up my weekends. Or one could take things mobile and "rent your canner" to whom ever and set up in their location for a service fee. or what ever.. Just my rambling thoughts. Hope this helps.. Any questions? Mr. Mike.

I have a #10 sealer motorized... I promise you, you DON'T want a hand crank one... it takes quit a few revolutions to seal the can properly..."your arms will fall off" from fatigue. Auto sealing is THE way to go. If you need more info PM me. Mr. Mike

All, I have made some proposals for organizing all the topics here for a reference guide for new to experienced dryers to use. One section is to have a Food Tried n Dried guide. This is a section where you can post your results for all of your efforts for ANYTHING you have dried.. good or bad results. Link here "Calling All Freeze Dryers" as a new topic in the Kitchen Consumer section. This is to keep the regular FD forum from being bogged down with this effort. Outline for the Reference Guide is for the The Big Picture" for the reference guide. Link here This is for "us" and your inputs are needed Input away! Mr. Mike

CALLING ALL FREEZE DRYER OWNERS: Project: Freeze Drying: A Quick reference guide for Tips, Hints and FAQ’s for Freeze Drying. i.e. Collector document. As part of trying to organize all the different questions and topic discussed, I made a proposal to organize the different topics for new and seasoned owners for their results and experiences in using our freeze dryers. We have support from the higher ups for organization, editing and posting this Freeze Drying Reference Guide. Food drying is ONE of many topics that will be addressed in this reference guide. Next: an outline for the Food drying results section. Mr. Mike

Rett, Higher quality ice creme seems to do better from my experience... even then if you "crowd" "IC samitches" you'll have "blow outs" too thick via being pressed together and can't freeze properly or drive out water so it gets "boiled out". If you use non canned fruit.. you'll prolly have better results.. i.e fresh or fresh frozen. MM

In response to Rett Can you over freeze food? I assume you are talking about in the machine.. no you can't over freeze it. You want it frozen. I have learned to freeze food to the machine default setting and just wait till the whole machine cycles to the end for the "beeper" signaling it is done. If you haven't overloaded the machine. It should be completely dry. If it's not dry.. run another heat cycle. Some of the canned fruit was done but moist was not so I ran the whole tray again. The sugar content may be too high if it was in a syrup or you had too much volume of food in the machine for one drying run. When I do fruit, I run about 5 lbs max.. and remember to keep the thickness no more than 3/8" thick for best results. What if I'm not home when the cycle is complete. Does the ice in the chamber put moisture back into the food. No when the water is driven out, it is frozen and will not re-enter the food unless the machine is shut off and ice begins to thaw. Do I need to run some kind of cycle before removing the food? See my previous post in part one last page (20) about running a short term heating mode to have the food/tray warm hot link here so it doesn't collect a "frost layer" For me, its just a precautionary measure ensuring the product will not collect any more moisture while out of the machine. Hope this helps Mr. Mike

Kerry, How did the strawberrys turn out?... My previous experience was that they didn't do so well whole.. then again.. I was doing 10lbs at that time and it overloaded the machine with ice. and the berrys were pretty big. 1" 1.5" in dia. Were the biggest ones completely dry?.. I'd be interested if you could put those in a zip lock or vac seal and see if they get moist in the package over a few days time. M

Aw info.. Here ya go.. See FDA link below for additional info or google AW for more info. http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/Inspections/InspectionGuides/InspectionTechnicalGuides/ucm072916.htm DEFINITION The water activity (a w) of a food is the ratio between the vapor pressure of the food itself, when in a completely undisturbed balance with the surrounding air media, and the vapor pressure of distilled water under identical conditions. A water activity of 0.80 means the vapor pressure is 80 percent of that of pure water. The water activity increases with temperature. The moisture condition of a product can be measured as the equilibrium relative humidity (ERH) expressed in percentage or as the water activity expressed as a decimal. Most foods have a water activity above 0.95 and that will provide sufficient moisture to support the growth of bacteria, yeasts, and mold. The amount of available moisture can be reduced to a point which will inhibit the growth of the organisms. If the water activity of food is controlled to 0.85 or less in the finished product, it is not subject to the regulations of 21 CFR Parts 108, 113, and 114.

For all "Newbies" and those experimenting. i have put together a summarization of my experiences of what I now call "Universal Laws for Freeze Drying".."UL's" for short.). Listed below. i.e. Things you absolutely cannot do without inducing a bad or failed experience. I think this will keep a few others from making the same mistakes starting out like I have done in the past. How do I know about these "Laws".. "I" have done them....."ALL" of them ..and Sadly..some more than once.. sorry to say. LOL.. It's like one of those OTHER universal laws that exists... i.e. You HOPE your bag of experience fills up BEFORE your bag of luck runs out. lol I think this UL applies here as well. Mr. Mikes "Universal Law's on Freeze Drying" 1. Never over fill the vacuum pump oil reservoir above the fill line. The oil should be BELOW the fill line. 2. Never leave the drain tube valve open while drying, Said action WILL blow out oil of the pump and ALL over everything. 3. Loading more than 8 lbs of food in the trays will take longer to dry and have a huge ice build up that gets into the trays inhibiting tray removal. Defrosting and re-drying will need to be done. 4. Drying anything that is more than 3/8" thick or overlapping slices will not fully dry. 5. Fatty-greasy items does not freeze dry. Pepperoni, sausage, Steak fat etc. 6. High sugar items may and probably will not dry.. Siraccha, gummys...maraschino cherries etc. Tray clean up is a mess. 7. Drying bread items turn it into a crouton. 8. Honey cannot be dried. 9. Chocolate cannot be dried. 10. Liquid items should be frozen flat in trays before inserting into the machine. 11. Drying sick butter makes a HUGE mess. Butter in foods is ok. 12. Foods MUST be fully frozen for a full cycle for optimum performance of lyophilisation..(driving off water) i,e Ice creme etc 13. Safety: Using an extension cord of 14 ga or less) WILL melt the plugs and connections over time and possibly cause a fire. This is one law you DON"T want to ignore. I recommend 12 ga cord as a minimum and preferably 10 ga cord-25' length maximum (more on that one later) 14. Extended periods of inactive time (not drying) with the door closed WILL cause extensive molding of the interior components...regardless of how "dry" you think it is inside the chamber. "Note to self- Leave the door open". (More on that later as well) These are mine... Any other UL? Mr. Mike

The problem can be from one or two reasons or both. 1. The fruit was not completely dry...even though you thought they were. In this case.. the old adage is true. It takes just "one bad apple" to ruin the whole bunch. No really. lol. All food fruit to meat needs to be evenly sliced, cut, layered or pulled for proper and complete drying. ANYTHING over 3/8" thick will not completely dry as it it too thick to dry in the middle. My rule of thumb is 3/8" max on anything I had this problem with some meat I did that was 1/2+ thick...Dried it to the beeping Completed cycle.. put the meat into a package and overnight..it softened back up. Same thing happened with whole strawberries...I only do thin sliced fruit..if I do any fruit at all.. cycle time takes too long for too little yield IMHO. OR... 2. When you took out the food it may be dry, but it is still colder than the air on the outside of the machine. i.e. anything colder than the atmosphere temp will start to get a moisture or frost covering on the surface..ever so slightly as it warms up. A principle we should already know about i.e. Sweating glass from cold beverages. I have had a lot of food "moisten up" or not be as "crisp dry" due to incomplete drying or a little "frost layer" adding an ever so slight bit of moisture back onto the food and re-absorb moisture and get soft in the package. Even if I have vacuum packed it. Fruit-meat.. it doesn't matter. The biggest piece MUST be as dry as the rest of the product for it to be 'perfectly dry" ..snap those pieces first to test for dryness if in doubt. Or you may have had those items packed last and it absorbed moisture from the air. It doesn't take much to take the crispness out of the product...promise. I bet the product was not completely dry is the cause or it took on frost. Here is how I avoid the "frosting" problem. TIP: I have everything "ready to pack" as fast as I can as you are working against time for moisture absorption. I have my bags pre-labeled, "flexible funnel" i.e cutting board ready for bag filling, O2 absorbers ready to open, vac sealer on and all ready to go before I take my food out of the machine. When I take the trays out... it's "all elbows" to get it bagged and sealed F-A-S-T. TIP: I NEVER take out food that is is "cold" from the dryer. If the cycle is "done" i.e. low Torr reading or is says "Completed" and beeping. I am not done with the last "Mr Mike" cycle. This is what I do: I will shut the machine off for about 3 minutes, (I don't want to blow out the pump seals on a "Off/On 1 second restart" ) I turn on the machine which restarts the freezing cycle. I turn the freezing time to "0" to start the heating cycle and let the heating cycle run for approximately 30 minutes to "warm" the food/trays back up again. When I take the trays out of the machine, the food/trays are already warm to hot, it does not take on frost or moisture unlike when its cold and warms up. Do the "warm up" procedure every time to your food and you shouldn't have a problem with accumulated surface moisture. An O2 absorbs Oxygen and does not help with moisture..desiccant absorbs moisture. Hope this helps. Mr. Mike Host's note: this topic continues in Freeze Dryers and Freeze Dried Food (Part 2)

TIP: Straining oil: IF you want to strain your oil, using coffee filters is asking for a HUGE mess. How do I know. I've fried well over 100 turkeys over the years.. 20 years to be exact.. (I used to teach classes on it before it became really big nationally.) and I used to strain the oil... Not having anything to hold the filter in place is asking for a oil spill disaster. If you decide to filter your oil, you will want/need to buy one of these devices (See link) and respective cone filters.. (Tried getting a picture to link.. all were really small jpegs.. this link is better... not pushing this company..... they were the first to have good picture.) Any good rest. supply or sporting good store that sells turkey fryers.. Academy, Cabelas, etc.. should have this filter frame. http://www.centralrestaurant.com/Fryer-Filter-Cone-Holder-c103p1069.html?gclid=CJ3RiKbitsMCFQisaQod4RoA-w You'll need a pot deeper than the strainer by several inches to allow the oil to strain properly... a turkey fry pot is perfect by the way. To me..strainng any oil is a real pain in the arse....so I don't do it. It may be viscosity or sediment issue.. soybean oil takes a looong time to filter. even in warm/hot temps. I may try it for this oil just for the heck of it and report back after this weekend. For others, it may be worth it..... try it and you decide. Mr Mike.