Richard Kilgore
-
Posts
6,424 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Store
Help Articles
Posts posted by Richard Kilgore
-
-
Actually Pu-erh is the only intentionally fermented tea, with a very, very few exceptions. You may be referring to oxidation. The two are commonly confused.
-
Fermented teas would be pu-erh, so you may also be interested in these discussions:
Tasting Discussion of a Menhai Shu Pu-erh from Norbutea.com.
-
I am not sure if you are looking just for more caffeine, or mean higher quality in the usual sense. If you tell us more about what you are interested in, we may be able to be of more help.
In the meantime, here are a few topic that may be of interest to you.
Tea 101 (actually more than just the basics).
A topic on Indian teas (mostly black teas).
Three Tea Tasting Discussions focusing on fine black teas:
A hnadmade Nilgeri fro Tea Source
An Imperial Dian Hong from Norbutea.com.
Hope that helps.
-
I have been brewing this today and have gotten four good infusions and there may be one more left in it, but I expect it would start thinning out noticeably. The second one I liked the best, but they were all very good. Maybe I'll drink 5 as iced tea.
175 F, 2 g, 120 ml (4 ounces) water.
1: 1.5 min, 2: 30 sec, 3: 1 min, 4: 1.5 min
-
I have tried it at 195 ( 1.8 g, 120 ml water) and compared to lower temps find it to be less flavorful with less umami, but still not very astringent. Kukicha that has been deep-steamed like this is one of the least astringent Japanese green teas.
This may be a very individual thing.
Hioyuki prefers the hotter temp because it does taste more astingent.
Yagna Patni enjoyed a lower temp.
So it's a matter of whatever suits your taste buds, as always.
-
Yesterday, it was the organic Sencha from Yuuki-cha.com and the Kukicha Fukamushi from The Cultured Cup that we're discussing in a Tea Tasting Discussion here in the forums. I'm having inconistent results with this unusual, but interesting, Sencha and will sum that up in a few days in the Green Tea topic.
Late last night prepared a pot of the Hojicha from the ongoing Tasting Discussion and tried it iced as well as hot. Like it both ways.
Today I am enjoying a TGY, Spring 2009 Harvest from Norbutea.com that I got yesterday. Wow! Intensely floral aroma and honey liquor. I'll post more in the Oolong topic after a couple of sessions with it.
So, what teas are you all drinking in your part of the world?
I have had six infusions of this tgy, each one a little different, but it still has aroma and an intoxicating floral-honey taste, and there is more left in the leaves. And the after-taste lingers for hours, overcoming even toothpaste and a pretty awful cup of decafe in a store today. More later in the Oolong topic.
-
Here's a few ideas....
Espresso cups.
Rocky grinder to go with the Silvia.
Roaster.
Gift certificate to Sweet Maria's or Wholelattelove.com.
-
Yesterday, it was the organic Sencha from Yuuki-cha.com and the Kukicha Fukamushi from The Cultured Cup that we're discussing in a Tea Tasting Discussion here in the forums. I'm having inconistent results with this unusual, but interesting, Sencha and will sum that up in a few days in the Green Tea topic.
Late last night prepared a pot of the Hojicha from the ongoing Tasting Discussion and tried it iced as well as hot. Like it both ways.
Today I am enjoying a TGY, Spring 2009 Harvest from Norbutea.com that I got yesterday. Wow! Intensely floral aroma and honey liquor. I'll post more in the Oolong topic after a couple of sessions with it.
So, what teas are you all drinking in your part of the world?
-
While Kerry's example was not in the finer dining range Jeff was referring to, for a "little hole in the wall lunch counter/restaurant" in a "gas station, post office, convenience store all in one", this is much better than average tea service.
-
Interesting. How long are you steeping the Kukicha?
I will try brewing this at a lower temp and a higher temp and report back.
-
Yes, it is a trend that is growing a little faster each year, but in no sense universal. There are tea sommliers and consultants. Here in Texas, eG member Kyle Stewart consults with and supplies equipment and training to a number of fine restaurants: Sharon Hage's York Street, Stephan Pyles, 1717 at the Dallas Museum of Art, Las Brisas, The Four Seasons and others. On the west coast there's Chez Panisse, and it's done well in a few places in NYC and London (the Fat Duck, I believe).
I am also curious about other cities with restaurants that take their tea service seriously.
-
I have a 2009 sheng pu-erh and some loose leaf Mao Cha from Norbutea.com on order, as well as some Taiwanese Oolongs. Already got in an organic sencha from Yuuki-cha.com and several red teas and Oolongs from jingteashop.com. Mixed reports on the 2009 Darjeeling crop so I'm going to wait until the situation becomes clearer.
Any 2009 harvest teas you all are ordering or already drinking?
-
I am brewing this again tonight. Two infusions so far. Warmed the kyusu, and used that water to warm the fair cup and drinking cups.
I took Adam's suggestion and brewed the first infusion with 3 g to 6 ounces of water for one minute. Second infusion for 30 seconds. Liked the second one better; the peach notes that Adam mentioned came through nicely.
I'll try it at higher temps again soon and see what I think.
-
Still, this was just a good reminder of how lovely the puerhs can be. I will try the other again, giving it a more proper try, but have to be careful about those first short steepings--if I really use water right off the boil, the risk of a scalded tongue is quite high, so carefully, carefully!
Alright! Sounds tasty, WC.
While you use water off-boil, you don't have to drink it at that temp. Pour it into a fair cup, or directly into your drinking cup and let it cool a bit. There may be interesting changes in the taste as the temp drifts downward. Let us know.
-
Today I have been drinking a shu pu-ehr, a 2008 Nian Jian Tulin 803. An inexpensive, inoffensive everyday pu that has improved since I got it.
-
Good questions.
First question: besides tradition, what is the value of the gaiwan in this sequence, vs the other pot? As long as the leaves are covered, and have some breathing room--so they're not swelling up above the level of the water--how does the gaiwan differ?Teashops in the US usually provide only instructions for brewing western style, because experience tells them that their average customer is intimidated by or has no interest in a gaiwan. They could include a demo of using a gaiwan in their tea classes; they could demo it when a customer looks at one; but usually don't.
The gaiwan filled with water so there is a water seal at the lid will brew hotter, which you want. A gaiwan pours very fast, which you want. An infuser in a pot restricts the leaves opening. You are aiming for an amount of leaf that when fully infused will fill the gaiwan to the lid.
Then on to quantities--for 3 teaspoons--three times what I used--you're using 9 x 4 ounces=36 ounces of water, about 12 ounces per teaspoon, seemingly a bit less than I used, but if part of it is still compressed, and really weighing six grams, a similar or higher ratio of tea to water, but using it in a very differently timed sequence.The four ounce gaiwan probably holds less than four ounces of water, since they usually measure that to the rim. Considering the volume consumed by the pu leaf, the first infusion is probably 3 1/2 ounces or less. As the leaf infuses and swells, it consumes more and more of the volume. You can get anywhere from 10 - 20 infusions gongfu style.
I think you may have a question here, and I am not sure I have addressed it. Can you clarify it?
Any problem with simply using your fingers to break up the cake? that's how I've been breaking the pu I have at work--breaking off a chunk, then worrying that a little until it divides, usually horizontally, into pieces that are about the right size.Absolutely fine to pull it apart, breaking leaves as little as possible, if it is loosely compressed. The amount of compression varies quite a bit. Some are compressed so tightly that a pick is necesary.
And the timings are interesting, implying drinking a lot of water over a short time, since there has to be an empty cup ready for the next infusion. I'll try this next time.If I am drinking alone using that large a gaiwan, I do not always drink all of an infusion, since I want to see what the next infusion is like.
Yes, you need a pre-warmed cup or glass of some sort to serve as a fair cup. You then pour from the fair cup into your drinking cups. (If it's just you and your drinking cup will hold it, you can just pour all the infusion in to it, of course.
You don't necessarily have to do one infusion right after another. You can let the leaves stay in the pot, but not stewing in water. If I let it sit for more than 2 hours, I do a 10 - 20 second rinse before doing an infusion to drink.
A $60 cake (375 g ?) should be vastly more interesting to drink gong fu style. You've got over $100 in pu-erh if I under stand correctly. Break the bank with a $7.50 gaiwan and try drinking pu the way it was meant to be drunk.
Feel free to ask any other questions you may have.
-
Okay. here are some suggestions.
* Let's assume the Ten Ren $60 cake is a good, drinkable pu.
* Go back to the Ten Ren shop and invest $7.50 in one of the 4 ounce gaiwan pictured on their web site or another in their store. About 90 - 120 ml (3 - 4 ounces should be good.) Ask someone in the shop to show you how to pour from a gaiwan. If they can't, I'll describe it. There's a small learning curve, but using a gaiwan rather than trying to brew in a glass pot western style will make a huge difference.
* Use about 6 grams of pu as a starting place. (1 1/2 - 2 grams pu per ounce of water). That should be about 3 measuring teaspoons.
* Use an ice pick or something similar to remove some pu from the cake, trying to break the leaves as little as possible. A dull knife like a butter knife if you don't have an ice pick or they don't have one of the Chinese Pu-erh picks at Ten Ren.
* For your six grams of pu use about 2/3 larger chunks, 1/3 smaller pieces.
Try this sequence.
* Pre heat gaiwan, pour water into fair cup (see below) and drinking cup to pre heat them, dump water.
* Add pu to warmed gaiwan.
* Add just off-boil water (208 -210 f) up to the rim of the gaiwan.
* Put on lid for 10 second rinse, dump water. This will rinse away a lot of the smaller debris among the leaves.
* Let leaves rest in the gaiwan for 30 - 60 seconds. This allows them to open a little.
* First infusion. Try 5 seconds. Some need a little more, but this is a good place to start. If it tastes weak, then try 10 seconds for the second infusion. As the leaves open you may need to reduce the time on the third infusion or so, before increasing it on subsequent infusions.
Here's a series you could try for a start: 5", 5", 10", 20", 30", 45", 60", 90", 120". This is something you just have to experiment with to understand how best to brew any particular pu to your liking.
* Pour each infusion through that infuser basket of yours into any small pitcher or even a small glass to use as a "fair cup". Then pour from this into whatever small cup you are drinking from.
Let us know if you have any questions, and how this works for you.
-
Can you say more about exactly how you prepared this? From how much leaf you used and how you removed it from the cake...to how much you used, leaf to water ratio. I think we can help you get it out of the mud. Using glass is fine for green tea and a disadvantage for pu, but still it should not be mud. Please tell all.
-
W C - That appears to be a sheng (cooked) pu-erh
How do you tell that it is cooked?
Are the images posted here, about halfway down the page, backwards?
http://www.houdeasianart.com/index.php?mai...49eab04013ad847
He labels the black/brown cakes as 'raw' and the green and gray (molded) cakes as cooked.
Hmm. All I can say is my young shu does not look green. However, Guang at Hou de knows Pu-erh, so my guess is that the green "cooked" is a photo of it at a very early stage in the process. But I can't be sure about your cake.
As you and I have said, it would be helpful to know a lot more about it. It's hard to start to build up a basic knowledge base about the Pu-erhs we drink without basic information. In this case you may be stuck with "I liked this and didn't like that about this pu", with no point of reference that you can use in the future. It's kind of like buying a bottle of wine without knowing anything at all about the vintage, grapes, region, estate, distributor, etc. If the people in the shop can't tell you, you could try emailing Ten Ren and hope for the best. It is altogether not that uncommon for tea merchants, on-line or B&M, to sell a little pu knowing or telling little or nothing about it - sometimes you are lucky and it is good, sometimes not.
That said, buying whole cakes, bricks or tuos is a hard way to learn about pu. Small samples can save you from ending up with a bunch of cakes that you don't care for and then either forcing yourself to consume them so as to not waste tea, or simply putting them away and not drinking them.
Have you brewed it yet? Do you have a gaiwan or a yixing teapot that you can brew it gongfu style?
-
The other teas I've tried are a temple of heaven gunpowder green that I use in iced tea mixed with herbal teas, and a Korean green tea that has the roasted barley in it. Both are less than a couple of months old. I haven't done the Kukicha at the higher temperature - I didn't want to "ruin" it. I'll give it a try with the last brew just to see what happens.
I'm still not completely sure what to make of a green tea being more astringent at 175 vs 195, unless it was brewed too long. I have not had the Korean Barley tea, but if the tea was roasted as well as the barley, that may account for it brewing well at a higher temp.
I am curious as to how your last brew turned out for this Kukicha.
-
Drinking tea today? What's in your cup?
Yesterday it was the Nilgiri Glendale Estate, Handmade from Tea Source that will be the focus of a Tea Tasting Discussion in the forum soon.
Today, I'm starting out with a 1999 Shu Pu-erh "Old Tree" Ripe brick from Yunnan Sourcing on eBay. I like this sample a lot and am waiting for a brick to arrive from China anytime in the next couple of weeks. More on this in the Pu-erh topic once I have played with it a little more.
-
W C - That appears to be a shu (cooked) pu-erh packaged for export or gift giving. Most come in a paper wrapper only. The people at your Ten Ren shop should be able to tell you more about it --- when it was manufactured, by which company, what grade leaves harvested in what years, blended or leaves from a single plantation, wild arbor, from which specific geographic area and which mountain, age of the tea trees. Unless Ten Ren corporate simply ships the cakes to the stores with no info.
Edited to correct: sheng to shu
-
Wholemeal Crank has been discussing some Pu experiments in the multiple infusion topic, a good one to pick up here.
>these mini-tuos have a bad reputationI have since tried a very expensive loose-leaf pu-erh and a more traditional large disc that I break bits off of, and these rishi mini-tuos are my favorite--the tea has a fruity sweetness that is missing from the others. When I work my way through the loose-leaf pu-erh I will not get more, but I look forward to trying more of the discs. At this rate, however, I won't get to more than one a year, because the disks are large.
Loose leaf Pu-erh is the Mao Cha from which the compressed beengs (cakes), tuos and bricks are made. Much of it sold in shops is not particularly good quality, but is a way they can offfer pu without you having to buy a beeng. However, the best pu sources will offer small 25 - 50 mg samples chipped from a compressed form.
And small samples are the best way to explore the huge world of young and aged shu and sheng pu-erh. No need to finish a whole cake before trying something else. And a good cake will only get better over time anyway if properly stored.
Not that all loose leaf pu-erh is inferior, of course. It's just harder to find outside of China. Greg at Norbutea.com brought back 2 kilos of an extraordinary Mao Cha from China this Spring. He brewed some of this for me gongfu style last time I picked up an order, and I have ordered a small sample of it to explore and enjoy further.
-
>these mini-tuos have a bad reputation
I have since tried a very expensive loose-leaf pu-erh and a more traditional large disc that I break bits off of, and these rishi mini-tuos are my favorite--the tea has a fruity sweetness that is missing from the others. When I work my way through the loose-leaf pu-erh I will not get more, but I look forward to trying more of the discs. At this rate, however, I won't get to more than one a year, because the disks are large.
> I can not tell if you brewed a cup of tea (in what?) and then poured 1/3 off to taste directly into a cup..
I poured it off from the teapot into cups and into the thermos, but swirled it before pouring to mix the layers.
>I notice you are brewing at 185 degrees. That is unusually low for pu-erh.
That was my misremembering of what my tea book suggested--205 to 210 degrees.
Yes, exploring Pu-erh is even more of an adventure than many other types of tea. I hope you'll share some of your pu explorations on the Pu-erh topic.
What Tea Are You Drinking Today? (Part 1)
in Coffee & Tea
Posted
This morning it's a Da Hong Pao from jingteashop.com. I love higher quality DHP and got this one last year as a candidate for a less expensive everyday version. I brewed it western style today and it's pretty good and improving with each sip, but I'll have to give it a try gong fu style soon.
So, what in your tea cup today?