gruyere

I think you need a serious history lesson particularly from an international viewpoint. But to start with, to better comprehend the American perspective begin with an understanding of the role of James Beard and Julia Childs. There is plenty of written material available and even a couple of fun reads such as Anthony Bourdain's Kitchen Confidential and a Cook's Tour will help you out of your bubble. Jacques Pepin’s, The Apprentice, provides an interesting angle on a combination of French and American influence on food. I'm afraid you are currently out to lunch and a bad lunch at that.

This thread is getting confusing. The originator started it to talk about the huge volume done by C. Trotter. At some point he made the statement that "the restaurants that are here are reproductions of great american restaurants..not to many good chefs will relocate to montreal due to the the fact that they are limited here." I think the vast majority of informed eG participants would take exception to that statement. Do you not think that Ducasse and his team did their research in choosing Montreal as its only N.American location outside of the ultra-world class restaurant scene in NYC? As the well informed Lesley C. indicated, certain Quebec food producers are generating products that are the envy of other regions. Where else in N.America would you find a city with a population of about Montreal’s size where Carswell could have written (and hopefully continues to write) as wonderful a piece on his search for the ultimate confit de canard, with as many alternatives in the mix? (BTW prepared the Belanger offering on Sunday past and had the family clamoring for seconds). The discussion then switched to the fact that the vast majority of Montrealers cannot afford Anise, les Chevres or Toque. What’s up? Which restaurants are “reproductions of great american restaurants?” Is it the upper end three mentioned above (A, les C, T) or the ones that Montrealers can afford? If it’s the former I would like to know what American ones they are modeled after. I travel to the U.S. quite a lot and I’d love to add some interesting alternatives to what can be a dull scene. While you are at it what American restos have Milos and les Caprices de Nicolas been cloned from?

This has to be the most inane, uninformed comment that I have read on my admittedly short but extensive one year of eGullet involvement. Is there a way that one can filter out the particular bullshit of certain members? Let me not take away from the many wonderful restaurants in NY, San Fran, Chicago and several other US cities, but the home of McD's and the $3.99 all you can eat buffet is hardly a standard for any food loving person any where. This comment is an insult to a city where I would venture to guess that people as a rule spend more of their disposable income on food and restaurants than any other city in N. America (this is educated speculation and not born out by research).

As Docsconz says, Ducasse's interest in opening here is a compliment to the Montreal scene. He brings a certain approach to the business that, in general, is somewhat foreign to the chef owned culture of Montreal (I know there are plenty of exceptions to this strategy, but we are not familiar with, for example, the Wolfgang Puck formula). Ducasse's is one of vice presidents, human resource departments, corporate pensions, job security, while at the same time demanding very high quality results from his employees. There are many people in every sector of business who like this certainty. It's business; certainly there is passion, but will the head chef of whatever he calls his Montreal venture be as passionate as Normand Laprise or Racha Bassoud or Marc de Canck? I would guess not. It will be good for the Montreal. Will it become the best restaurant in the city? No! there's too much local competition that will be more agile. Will it spur the locals on to greater things? Let's hope so. That's good, isn't it?

Michel, Many thanks for your very helpful post. I have made a rez at Le St. Amour. Brian

Although I have lived in Montreal for 18 years I have not spent much time in Quebec City and am not familiar with the resto scene there. We (three couples) will be there near the end of January and are looking for an upscale restaurant. I have searched for a related thread but have not turned up anything. Any help with a specific recommendation and/or link to an eG thread would be appreciated. Brian

Is la Mer on Papineau? Noref???

Where do you very knowledgeable food people shop for fresh fish, tuna in particular (in home cooking quantities)?

My wife and I were at le Bistro de Mougins about 5 weeks ago. We went there as a result of a post by Jonathon Day. We had a delightful meal and I would further support his post above (regarding Bistro de Mougins as I do not have the extensive knowledge to comment on many of the others).

Very well said. Even the very exciting can lose it's appeal (oxymoron, but I think you know what I mean) if there are not meaningful benchmarks for comparison.

John, These are the two posts that I am referring to: Post 1. Chez Gramond 5 rue de Fleuris (6e) Note: Fleuris should read Fleurus 42-22-28-89 "Only 10 tables in this tiny bistro, serviced by only the Gramonds themselves. Unflinchingly traditional, and boasting a wine list full of well-aged Bordeaux and Burgundy, Jean-Louis Gramond makes two weekly trips to the Parisian markets before settling on his nightly menu. Game in the fall is a speciality, especailly the hare stew. The Grand Marnier souffle is the best in class. If I had one meal in Paris, this would be it.” Post 2. “Chez Gramond in the 6th. For me, the perfect bistro experience and one of a dying breed (M. Gramond in the kitchen and Mme. Gramond in the front of the room). Prices are reasonable, save for the wine list, which is stocked entirely with aged Bordeaux and Burgundy (and priced accordingly).” I kept a file of the posts that I was going to make reference to while we were traveling. Unfortunately I did not note the ‘poster’. I can see your point that it may be a small group who still speak about Chez Gramond. There is no doubt that there are more inventive, imaginative alternatives out there. I hearken back to my own past when as a young, small town man I traveled to Montreal on business and was treated to dinner at Restaurant les Halles. It was the epitome of haute cuisine and sophistication in my young mind. That was twenty-seven years ago and it is still in business serving traditional fare. Today many restaurants have passed it by and are much more exciting. Now as a 17 year resident of Montreal it would be considerably down the list of my recommendations for visitors. However, it serves a loyal clientele and is still considered by some as one of the city’s better restaurants. I still personally quite enjoy it. There are few experiences more pleasant than a new taste sensation. One where the taste buds say “Hey we’ve got to set up a new file on this one; haven’t been there before.” But at the same time old favourites still hold down an important place on my sensory hard drive. My wife’s prime rib roast with Yorkshire pudding and roasted potatoes isn’t going to win any awards for innovation but on a winter evening it is provides a delicious, belly-warming experience. I put Chez Gramond in that sort of category, but acknowledge that for many egulleters this may not be their first choice when in Paris. For our family of five it worked. Brian L

My wife and I recently returned to Montreal from a vacation to France (Paris and Provence) and Italy (Florence and the Tuscan countryside). Egulleters and egullet threads were a most helpful resource, providing intimate knowledge that even the most thorough of guidebooks would have difficulty in equaling. I am posting some of our experiences here (and in the Italian thread for that part of the trip) as a means of saying thank you. I should preface my remarks by saying that I am a poor note taker and a very amateurish critic so the comments are mostly general in nature, lacking the detail of many very helpful egullet posts. We stayed in the sixth arrondisement in a small hotel called Residence des Arts. Pascal, manager, chief front desk clerk and aspiring concierge was a treat; a wonderful young man who did everything from dishing out local advice to repairing a faulty piece of luggage. We chose the 6ieme because our three adult children (17 to 22) were with us for the France part of the adventure. Due, in large part, to the prevalence of universities there are a lot of young people in this area (the hotel was close to Place St. Michel) and we thought it would provide a nice atmosphere for the children. We were right. The partying along rue St. Andre des Arts went on late into the night. Our only complaint with the accommodations would be that it was noisy. However, we laughed it off and ensured that the kids were well aware of the supreme sacrifice made by their parents. The first night in Paris found us eating at Le Christine at 1, rue Christine, on the advice of Pascal. I did not have information on this resto but on our first night after the long trans-Atlantic flight we wanted something very close to the hotel. We were pleasantly surprised. Orders included fois gras, salads, cod and turbot. All dishes were very good but the cod and turbot were excellent. My guess is that they were lightly pan seared and finished in the oven. The fish was very moist and cooked to the precise point that distinguishes under-cooked from starting to become dry. The cod was surrounded by a brandade that was light, a tad creamy and very tasty. On egullet advice dinner number two was at Chez Gramond. I did a search on Gramond in the eG France forum but without results. I was searching for who had recommended this bistro so that I could make a more personal thank-you, however I’m afraid that a more general ‘merci beaucoup’ will have to suffice. M. and Mme. Gramond could not have been nicer. Having lived in Montreal for the past seventeen years we speak French reasonably well, with the children pretty much perfectly fluent. Mme. Gramond seemed particularly enamored when, upon her arrival at our table, we switched from our English banter to French, causing her to immediately call into the kitchen, inviting M. Gramond to join the conversation. We spoke at length and I immediately knew that this was not going to be a two-hour experience (Montreal’s definition of eat and run.) The restaurant was not busy (we arrived at 20:30) and the Gramonds were relaxed and quizzed the children on a host of issues. It was not difficult to sense that given the menu selections, the décor and the age of the owners this is a very traditional restaurant. With that in mind we started with a kir aperitif and ordered escargots, fish soup, onion soup, guinea fowl, filet mignon, confit de canard and a dish or two that my poor note taking has missed. This was complimented by a fine 1982 Bordeaux that Mme. Gramond recommended (not cheap but fairly priced). We were all impressed by our meals with the duck (my selection) hitting that just salty enough point that I find delectable. Once again as we were getting ready to leave after three very enjoyable hours both M. and Mme. Gramond appeared on the scene embracing the children and talking affectionately for another ten minutes or so. As we walked back to the hotel we laughed at the unpretentious nature of their offering and contrasted it with the less than hospitable reputation that is often used to describe some Parisian dining experiences; one that I frankly have not been party to, with the exception of one minor, relatively innocent, lunch encounter. On a final note I would add that one should not confuse my description of ‘unpretentious offering’ with inexpensive. This is a quality establishment where you pay for what you get – excellent food and fine wine. It is fairly priced and good value, but not cheap. The children ruled the roost for the next two evening meals. Our youngest is crazy about mussels and a moules-frites resto became the next selection of choice. I’m sure if we looked harder we could have found a more highly recommended establishment but there was a moules-frites restaurant called Chez Léon within easy walking distance of the hotel and off we went. I believe there are others in France and possibly Belgium by the same owners and I was consequently a little skeptical about a potentially sterile chain mentality. My skepticism was unfounded. I have had better moules-frites in Montreal but these dishes were very good. We ordered mussels in white wine (2), a curried variety and moules mariniere (2). A hearty pitcher of beer and some house white rounded out an enjoyable meal. Service was efficient although a little impersonal. The next day the kids once again made the dinner choice and were keen on steak-frites, a choice that we all quite enjoy. We settled on Le Relais de l’Entrecote in Place St. Germain, probably not the most sophisticated of establishments but highly suitable for our family of five. Steak frites was the only menu item. The fries were delicious and the steak tender. My wife described the sauce as a combination of Dijon mustard and pesto. I declared it very good, if a little unusual by my experience, but the rest of the gang felt it was better than that. The initial serving was somewhat small but the wait staff was efficient in supplying ‘no charge’ refills as desired. Is this a common concept at Paris steak frites restos? I don’t believe it is in Montreal, where this dish is popular. However in my opinion it has merit. The house Bordeaux was good. On day five we arrived in Nice and checked into a small boutique style hotel called Le Grimaldi. It is a very nice hotel with well-trained, helpful staff. It is at most five minutes from the beach. This post is getting long and I will therefore stick to a few of our Provence restaurant highlights. We had a very enjoyable meal at Les Viviers in Nice. Dishes included salade Nicoise, shrimp, cod, turbot, Mediterranean sea bass and duck. All fish orders were moist, delicate and tasty, the duck was better than good but not excellent. Service however was excellent. The wait staff had that special ability to be highly attentive while not over bearing. You know the style: pretty well invisible until needed and then very much helpful in a professional way. On day three in Provence we left the children at the beach and my wife and I did some exploring through the countryside. As a result of a post by Jonathon Day I suggested to her that we should not miss le Bistro de Mougins. We shopped and walked around Vieux Mougins for a couple of hours and thoroughly loved this little village. It is in quite an idyllic setting and I thought it would soon be full of tourists. However it was not crowded at all. As a matter of fact when we entered the bistro at about 12:30 we were the only customers. We started with a Kir as our aperitif followed by a glass of house white for my wife and red for me. Her first course was a wonderful spinach tarte, mine an equally good terrine de lapin (rabbit). For mains she had an excellent Salmon filet, I had a cuisse de canard (leg of duck). This meal set a very high standard. In fact I am a lover of duck (magret de canard, confit de canard and cuisse de canard are all favourites) and I would rank my duck at le Bistro de Mougins as one of my all time best. As well the atmosphere was very nice. They were not busy and owner, Alain, sat with one of his staff members chatting over lunch in the center of the room. Our waiter was very good. This one ranked right up there. Unfortunately several other meals in Nice and Monaco/Monte Carlo were not very memorable. The children wanted to eat outside the Casino in Monte Carlo and although the service at Le Café de Paris was efficient, the meal was average and as expected full of tourists. We were likewise uninspired by meals at Milo’s (not to be confused or associated with similarly named restos in Montreal and NYC) and Dominique Nichol (spelling may be incorrect) in Nice. Once again thanks to those egulleters who knowingly or unknowingly were helpful to us.

I was there for dinner on two earlier occasions and had lunch last week. Our party of four had two steaks, rack of lamb and sea bass for mains. I had the del Monico steak. It is not on the lunch menu but as it is the smallest steak available here I asked if they could accommodate the request. Our waiter left to check and came back to inform me that it would not be a problem. The other steak was a 20oz rib that I think they call the Cowboy or the Texan or some such western style name. The lamb was pronounced very good, the sea bass was described as over cooked and the two steaks were very good. My del Monico was tasty, slightly charred on the outside and done rare as requested. Stick to red meat is, I believe, good advice in this restaurant. The wait staff was very good and the surroundings are quite impressive. All of us red meat lovers can probably hearken back to a steak that blew our socks off. Consequently when an expensive steak house doesn't meet our highest expectations we are sometimes disappointed. 40 Westt is a steak house and in that regard it does a good job. Steak houses in my mind conjure up masculine imagines, woody decor, large, expensive portions, expense accounts, etc. Queue de Cheval, Moishe’s, Rib n Reef and 40 Westt (I know there are many who do not place these four establishments in the same league and I can buy that) can hold their own with many good steak houses. They are expensive but that is the business and they are certainly not more expensive than Morton’s in Toronto where I believe they set a high standard for being overpriced. If you are a Montrealer looking for a steakhouse it’s not a bad choice. If you are from out of town save your money for a more Montreal experience. Montreal is a strong restaurant city by pretty much any standard, certainly by any North American standard. but in my humble opinion we are not a real ‘steak house town.’

Many thanks for the wonderful suggestions folks. Once again egullet gets the job done. I have been out of town for a few days and I believe one of my partners may have already committed to a resto, although he is not here to confirm. David M mildly admonished me the last time I was at Rosalie after I informed him that I was an egullet voyeur and not yet a regular poster. I have changed my ways David. Thanks for the Tuesday nite offer. I will contact you if arrangements have not already been made. Lesley, we have a smaller group of 10 on Wednesday nite and have taken your advice regarding Anise. BrianL

What kind of food we'd like: The group would be quite adventurous. We are not really stuck on any type of food. Italian, French, Market, Fusion --- pretty much anything goes. I would be more concerned that we'd have a nice location with excellent food. I find that in some places the 'group room' is an afterthought and not in keeping with the decor of the overall establishment. More generic for example. I would like to avoid this. Thanks

I have been a serious egullet voyeur for about 6 weeks now. I am overwhelmed by the level of knowledge and the passion of so many of the participants. I have posted on the France and Italy boards as I was looking for information related to a June vacation in those two countries. However this is my first post on what I would consider my 'home board'. My business partners and I would like to host about 12 clients for dinner on Tuesday May 6, 2003. Including ourselves and spouses the total number will be about 30. They will be attending a convention with about half of them from Montreal and the other half from out of town. We did this on a couple of occassions in the past with a larger group and the restaurants (Club des Pins and Restaurant Laloux) held our function as a private group and closed to other customers. Given the lateness of this request and the size of the group I doubt that it is practical to persue this route. Does anybody know of a highly recommended restaurant that might have a private room or at least a semi-private section that could host our group? Thanks.

My wife and I will be spending four days in Florence and four days in the Chianti countryside in mid June of this year. Our research into restaurants and wine tours has been greatly aided by exisiting egullet threads. However we are struggling with the accomodations side of things. We would like to find a good centrally located boutique hotel in Florence (4-5 stars) and pleasant country style accomodations, probably in the Sienna area. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks to those of you who offered help. Your suggestions were wonderful and led to many suitable alternatives. I continue to marvel at the level of knowledge displayed by 'egulleters'. Following the Paris leg of our trip we are going to the Provence/Cote d'Azur region. After four days there the children head home to Montreal and my wife and I drive to Florence for four days followed by four days in the Chianti area probably near Sienna. At the risk of wearing out my welcome, does anybody have advice on boutique Hotels (4 or 5 stars) in Florence and pleasant country accomodations in the Chianti region? So as not to confuse the content of this thread I am about to post this request in the Italian forum so if you have suggestions I hope you will post them there.

My wife and I and our three adult children are planning a special vacation to celebrate our 25th anniversary. It will include 4 days in Paris in mid-June. We are having a great deal of fun deciding on the restaurants we will select. We all love good food and wonderful restaurants and are especially looking forward to this part of the vacation. Egullet is an amazing resource in this regard. I frankly have not found a more useful and engaging site on the Internet. However we are having less success finding suitable accommodations for a family of 5. Given the special nature of the trip we would like upscale digs. On the other hand two rooms in say the 4 star range approaches 900-1000+ euros per day. I have therefore been looking for apartment style accommodations. To date I have received a reply from Hotel & Residences du Roy (Montaigne, 1er) offering a two bed, two bath unit for 610 euros/day inclusive of tax and service. Does anybody know of this establishment and would you consider this good value? Are there other suggestions for a family of 5? We would like to be somewhat centrally located, but given the efficient Metro system, ‘centrally located’ can be defined as covering a large area in this case. Many thanks.