Steve Plotnicki
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Posts posted by Steve Plotnicki
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This restaurant from a food perspective is the most important restaurant to ever open in London. If the writer had any doubts about it going in, he certainly knew that to be the case after he ate the food. Not that the story about asking him what company he works for isn't relevant, but it does limit the amount of copy he could provide about the food. It's sort of like reviewers writing about the choice of pens at ADNY. Who cares? Tell us about the food please. How about instead of telling us the Chicken dish is on the menu, eating it and telling us how it tastes?
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Reviewers do themselves no favors when articles that contain important information about food designate 50% of the copy to sensationalism. But other then the prices it sounds great. Those prices make the tasting menu appear to be a bargain.
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That price is in line with what tasting menus cost at the three star restaurants in Paris. Whether people will pay that in London, or pay that for this chef's food is another thing. But the tasting menu at Arpege is 300 euros and this sounds to be about 240 euros. Depending on whether VAT is included, you could be at the same pricepoint. And excuse me if I say so but, that's one hell of a menu.
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Thing is, I'd like to like the place. I'd like to have a modernish Italian in my back pocket for when I'm in the mood. And the food he cooks on TV looks really delicious and he explains it and what makes it delicious so well. And he was even cool playing blues guitar with that famous salumerist (now that's a word) in Bologna on TV. But it all adds up to a recurring disappointment.
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Yes in the last 20 years. Can't tell you why it's happened but it has happened in the Basque region and on the Costa Brava which make up both of the major borders with France. I'm not knowledgable enough about Spain to tell you why this happened other then an obvious answer is that it is one way that freedom of artistic expression manifested itself after the death of Franco. Another logical reason is that food and wine are cheap ways of expressing newly found affluence and that also might be a result of Franco's passing. Maybe someone else can give netter imsight into why. Italy tried to create it's own version of HC but it has been in large part a failure and the restaurants and chefs don't make much of an impact on the international dining scene. After that it's sort of spotty with restaurants that might be deserving of the status dotted around the rest of Europe and the U.S.
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Modern Spanish cuisine.
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To some extent, can't the same thing be said of Chinese, Italian, Indian or other cuisines?
And that's why those three cuisines do not have an equivelent of haute cuisine. If you care to read the few hundred thousand threads on the site about this issue, the development and proliferation of haute cuisine in France seems to be contemporaneous with the development of the modern restaurant. Other highly sophisticated cuisines including the ones you mentioned were basically practiced in homes and were regional in nature. And the restaurant cooking pretty much mimicked home cooking. It's the French, with that affluent middle class of theirs that formed in the late 19th century, and which flourished until WWII, that had both the time, inclination and sufficient extra income, and who also realized that exporting culture was extremely proiftable, who could and would support the development of haute cuisine.
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But Macro asked about Jewish haute cuisine, not Jewish pesant cuisine. How else would you do it? As for the difference between Jewish and French, what's the difference between Poule au Pot and Chicken in the Pot, or Boiled Beef and Pot au Feu and Cholent and Cassoulet? Not very much except the French versions are somewhat more refined then Jewish cuisine. And do you think wealthy Jews ate the same food as peasant Jews? What do you think the Rothschilds ate, chav?
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I would say that certain cuisines' very essence is the peasant quality it has that derives from the poor circumstances of the founding ethnic group. Without the rustic quality it would be something else entirely
But this is the whole point. The famous Paul Bocuse Truffle Soup is just a fancified version of Auvergnyat Peasant Soup that has truffles and a pastry crust. And I was just pointing out that a Jewish chef could notice the similarity between gefilte and quenelles because they are both based on ground fish. One that is ground course and one that is a mousse. Just one attachment on the Food Processor away from each other. All you need is the desire to make it fancier and luxurious.
Can gefilte fish be mousse of pike, whitefish, and carp, each one flavored differently and with some finely chopped vegetable added to each one to give it a discreet color? And then can you chill it in a terrine and serve it in a beautiful three color slice. And then you can make a carrot puree and an onion puree that are gently spiced and put a pool of each one on each side of the terrine? All it has to have is a connection to the way gefilte fish tastes and you would have haute Jewish cuisine.
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Do they make a special Elijahu addition?
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I guess they picked the wrong table this time because our wine bill was a third of that. And we had 3 bottles.
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I suppose I'm saying that I don't want to reconstitute, I want to refine.
This is just semantics as I mean to say refine. And indeed the DB potato latke is a refinement of Jewish peasant food. I don't know if you ever had a quenelle but it is a pike dumpling that is eerily like gefilte fish from my perspective. And it is refined in exactly the way you describe where the fish is ground to the consistancy of a mousee instead of the course consistancy of gefilte fish. And instead of it being formed into small ovals, the form it into the shape of a log, cook it that way and then they are able to slice it into perfectly smooth rounds. Then they take a beurre blanc and spoon it over a few slices and voila. You could do the excact same thing to gefilte fish (which is pike, carp and whitefish) and grind it to athe consistancy of a mousse, andf cook it in a log. Voila, Jewish haute cuisine.
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But Ed Schoenfeld already answered this question when he said;
During my early years in the industry I worked as a captain/maitre'd at a series of high end Chinese restaurants. I have often described my job as 'food shrink.' I would talk with my clients, size them up. ascertain their level of food sophistication, what they liked and didn't like, what they felt like eating, how hungry they were, what they tried last time, and I would then make some suggestions about items I thought were really good and that seemed appropriate. When they hit on one or two they wanted to try I would then direct the conversation to what dishes would go well with what they had selected. The goal was to ying and yang their menu so that they got a good balance of items, flavors, textures and colors. Because I worked in the restaurant and knew how everything looked and tasted, it was easy for me to make sure my clients had a good experience (assuming the chefs did their jobs).The point is you don't always get that service. In fact, these days there are many popular restaurants where you have to prove yourself before you get that kind of service.
It isn't that expensive wine impreses anyone. What is does is show that you might be a knowledgable diner. One indication that someone is a knowledgable diner is the type of wine they buy. And it just so happens that most expensive wines happen to be great wines too, and the people who often order them know a lot about food. So it gives the house a silent way to assess how experienced a diner is. I assure you that when you order a wine in the restaurant and when pouring it for you you tell him, "I was just at the vineyard tasting the last 15 vintages," he will fawn over you. Now whether that information will get to the captain and the chef all depends on how the place is wired for service.
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Macro - Haute cuisine is just a level of cooking technique. Any ethnicity that has a defined cooking style could theoretically create a haute version of the cuisine. There is nothing to stop someone from reconstituting Jewish dishes in a haute cuisine setting. The cookbook author Joan Nathan who wrote the terrific book, Jewish Cooking in America, did a TV segment with Daniel Boulud who was making "latkes" for Hannukah. Except DB's latke was a single. large potato pancake (no flour, coarslely grated potatoes) which was the size of an entire serving platter. He then painted the latke with creme fraiche, put slices of smoked salmon over the top until it was covered, and then showered the whole thing with chopped chives. Voila, haute cuisine latkes. You could do this with any dish. You can turn gefilte fish into quenelles if that was your goal, and what is to stop someone from making sayteed Foie Gras with a fresh fruit and wine sauce. All things that are kosher.
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Ajay,
If you feel comfortable, please try to walk me through your desire to ask Cabrales why she decided to capitalize on this market menu? It seems to me that you've read enough posts from Cabrales to know that even though she has given M. Gagnaire's cuisine several chances, and that she subjectively does not favor his approach as it is almost too cluttered and unfocused, she will use any excuse, no matter how little, to vist a three star restaurant. Do you have any reason to believe, that she wouldn't believe, that a cheaper more market focused menu wouldn't ameliorate her underlying critique/problems with Gagnaire's cuisine so she can have one more three star meal?
How could you not suppose that the slightest reason at all would be a potent inducement to someone who felt the food was comptently or even expertly prepared (in the context of their subjective tastes), and that a change in the price point would serve as encouragement. Though you haalways understood her critique of Gagnaire to be that the food doesn't meet her subjective preferences. Do you really expect any of that to matter when a three star meal is at stake?
[i should note for the record that based on two meals at P. Gagnaire, I find the restaurant to fall predominantly within my subjective preferences--except for the desserts which can be borderline inedbile to competant.]
Steve
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Well yes there's the other issue of their choosing to reheat our food as opposed to them cooking us new orders. But who is being picky eh?
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Hey it wasn't my line. I'm just reporting on what comments were in vogue.
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Well part of the overall discussion is how big a difference there is between the baseline cuisine and what people who get individualized treatment get. And then the secondary part is what somebody has to do to overcome the barrier between the known and the unknown. And I think the latter is much easier to do in France for the simple reason that they don't flip tables. So the average diner spends more time with the serving staff and as a result gets treated differently.
In fact we believe the cold lamb chops came about as a result of Jaybee and Toby ordering a pasta course. Everyone else ate two courses. We are certain that what happened was someone in the kitchen didn't coordinate the food properly so our main courses were ready while they were still eating their pasta and they sat around getting cold. And this means two mistakes were made, and possibly three because nobody on the kitchen staff not our waitress either noticed or cared about our food sitting around and getting cold. And I am sure that this happens all of the time but people don't send their food back.
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Well it's an apt description of a certain type of person. The location chosen was based on the way she impressed this particular person. They could have said a hotel in Maine or Northern California instead. Or they could have said or a kosher delicatessen in NYC if she fit the description. We only offer images. You can draw your own inferences.
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If you get the right steaks in Tuscany they will kill Argentinian beef. I haven't met anyone who came back from Argentina who sang the praises of the beef as being better then the U.S. or the best breeds in Europe. I understand that one of the reasons is that they don't age their beef. Why I do not know.
Pumpkino - I thought you were an expert on Italian food?
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Well market efficiency is an economic measure. But quite often market efficiency obliterates cultural diversity. That is the conversation we always have about artisanal and what it means isn't it? Economic efficiency breeds sameness in products which is exactly what happened to Ca. wines. And they based their efficiency on Parker scores so the extent of the sameness is broad. The wine industry would be much more diverse if there was serious competition to Parker. But until that happens the market for high end wines will calibrate around his ratings.
As for pre-determined progressions, I have found that it is the same for music, art, and film. One gains expertise as to what is really good with more experience. But as to finding wines from people like Thackery interesting, it isn't that the role Thackery plays isn't interesting, it's that the terroir he works with is inferior. So as a result his wines feature ripeness (that sunny California thing again) over other attributes which when balanced correctly are more complex.
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To me this question has a capital investment component and a service component. In terms of inventory, one doesn't need a great wine director if they have enough money to walk into one of the top distributors in the city and guarantee payment for wines. If you were opening a high profile Italian restuarant, I am certain the people at Leonardo Locasio Imports will write your list for you with all their top wines on it. But if you want youre list to include great older selections, you need a knowledgable buyer who keeps track of how wines develop and what their price is in the market. But it seems to me that the term sommelier also means someone that offers top quality wine service. Whether that means good food matching or keeping glasses properly filled and wines kept at proper temperatures, whether you have waiters who are knowledgable or a sommelier it doesn't matter. At Tailevent which is a very wine intensive restuarant the sommelier is more involved in the serving then he is in the selection which is doen by captains. But at other places the sommelier rules the dining room regarding anything that has to do with wine.
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I don't think it's about the money. What motivates restaurants to perform at a high level isn't money, it's discerning diners. Sure a restaurant loves money, but most restaurants I know are proud of what they do. And if you can communicate to them that you are eager to sample their best effort, they will often give it to you. Wine, since the percentage of people who have a lot of knowledge is small, is a good way to communicate to the restaurant that you are knowedgable. And it isn't the price of the wine that necessarily does that, it's the conversation about the wine with the sommelier that usually does the trick. As I reported in the other thread about Babbo, when I said to the sommelier that I had tried most of the wines on the list, even though I was exagerating, he could have used that statement as a launch point to find out how much I really know and then report that to the kitchen. But he didn't really care. And I don't think it would have made a bit of difference to him if I ordered a $1000 bottle of wine.
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Well I have to say that from the outset I was looking for value oriented wines and told the sommelier as such. So the $36 Gini and the $145 Spinetta do not exactly qualify as expensive wines. There are people there ordering $2000 bottles of 1985 Sassacaia. But I have to say that a usual benefit of BYO is that you arrive with expensive wines that come from your own cellar. And if Babbo allowed BYO, I would have brought a 1985 Conterno Vigna Collonello which one can buy these days for $135. And maybe the sommelier would have taken a different view towards me if he saw that bottle.
But now that I am writing this, I remember the following. I asked for a wine list at the bar so I brought the list with me to the table. After a few minutes the sommelier appeared and asked if I needed any help. I told him that I probably didn't need any because I had tasted almost all the wines on the list and that I was looking for something interesting and which had good value. Well he didn't take the bait. 8 times out of ten when you do that with a sommelier he will smile, recognize that you are a wine lover and a pride will come over him and he will point to the treasures on the list. This guy was rather clinical about it and he started asking me what region I was interested in an which terroir (I love describing Italian things with French terms
.) What I was really trying to get him to do was to tell me what the hidden gems on the list were. Those esoteric wines that he gets because he is Babbo that I might not be able to see anywhere but as a wine enthusiast he figures I would appreciate.I guess this issue, and the ones discussed so far, are a matter of pride of place. When I asked about letting the kitchen cook for me, or asked this guy about wine, I am really asking, we would like to try the things that make you proud working here. Why that message didn't get through to either the server or the somellier can only be the way the place is wired because of its popularity.
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in United Kingdom & Ireland: Dining
Posted
It isn't unusual for a publication where a sizeable portion of the readership can't afford to eat in a place like this to ridicule something that appears excessive as a way of making their readers feel better. Look at the two examples raised, the pens at ADNY and their asking for your company name here. Two things that have nothing to do with the meal. Yet their mention played a huge role in the respective reviews they appeared in. Pretension is something to report on, but it shouldn't be at the expense of gastronomy.