Danny Meyer

I want to thank the many of you who took the time to ask such good questions and for your interest in what we've been up to at Blue Smoke. I've thoroughly enjoyed the process and will look forward to seeing you to Blue Smoke as well as our other restaurants! Cheers. Danny

I just reviewed our reviews and now know that I was mistaken when I wrote that no one had written about our use of Niman Ranch pork. In fact, in her Newsday review just weeks after we opened, Sylvia Carter wrote: "I applaud Blue Smoke for it's use of Niman pork." I apologize for the error.

Thank you for all that praise. I'm glad you've enjoyed our restaurants and appreciate your loyalty!

Thanks for the question. I've addressed parts of your question in some other posts, but I'll gladly add a couple of nuances here. The single biggest challenge with barbecue is that it is not a creative pursuit. We don't try to gussy it up with whimsical sauces, reductions, plate presentations or flourishes of any type. It is 100% about execution and consistency. It stands or falls on its own, naked merits. Every day we make a lot of mistakes and then strive to learn from them. I have the utmost respect for the great outposts of barbecue. Doing something well, day-in-and-day-out is really hard. Particularly when there's no place to hide your mistakes. That would be the case whether you were trying to do barbecue in New York or on the barbecue belt. As for doing it New York, what's really challenging is that even when you DO execute at the highest level, it may taste awful to someone who grew up with a different style of barbecue. Having had the privilege of judging at Memphis in May and Jack Daniels in Lynchburg (for the education and fun of it, I took the all-day Kansas City Barbecue Society course and am a certified barbecue judge!), I know exactly what we're striving for in terms of flavor, texture and appearance. And the key word is striving. Yes, it can be frustrating when someone faults our ribs for "not falling off the bone" when we know that only happens when they're seriously over-cooked (or when they're actually braised -- ot smoked.) We would have failed if our ribs fell off the bone. And it can be tough when someone's only experience with barbecue is grilled ribs covered in barbecue sauce. We use sauce as an accent, but want the meat, smoke and dry rub to be the star of the show. But ultimately, it's our responsibility to educate the guests who come to Blue Smoke. It's our job to express what we're trying to do, and then to execute on that promise. When we fail for either reason, it's our problem -- not our guests. I'm grateful that the restaurant is doing well and that so many folks are coming back frequently and becoming regulars. I don't believe barbecue is a passing fad. It's too entrenched in this country, and I believe more and more people are looking for real American experiences. "Blackened this and that" was a fad of the 1980's, because it wasn't based in a longstanding tradition. New Yorkers have always welcomed food (sometimes authentic, sometimes not) from all parts of the world. We love Italian food, and don't scoff at Italian restaurants just because this isn't really Italy. And I've seen plenty of New Yorkers drink cocktails or California merlot at Italian restaurants -- even though that would never happen in Italy. We've been fortunate to welcome a lot of people from the south, many of whom have been incredibly generous in their reception of Blue Smoke. and in their willingness to help us improve further. None has scoffed at us for offering beverages other than beer. The true barbecue guys love sharing lore, and aren't protective of "Their way only". I love that about them. We've benefitted greatly from folks like Rick Schmidt from Kreuz Market (he told he'd be proud to serve our brisket), Steven Raichlin (the Florida barbecue book author), and John T. Edge (head of the Southern Foodways Alliance). And Frank Stewart (photographer and co-author of Smokestack Lightening.) has opened so many doors for us to meet the barbecue greats. Finally, while barbecue has thrived in the "country", it also has a rich urban history -- primarily in Kansas City, but also in places like Chicago, St. Louis and Memphis. I just don't know who wrote the rule that we couldn't have it New York!

Good question. As I wrote in another post, this food is emotional stuff and can make people swoon or feel enraged -- depending on what it taps into in them. We've certainly brought out both of those feelings in a lot of people. Barbecue is a beautiful American language with at least hundreds of dialects. And each dialect is proudly guarded in an almost religious (or at least politically-charged) way. Some folks view barbecue like sex. They like it no matter what style it comes in. Others truly believe that only the style they grew up with is legitimate. Still others have been downright angry that we even attempted to do it in New York. In the first month or two we were open, I began receiving all kinds of care packages by mail or by hand delivery. Someone sent me his ribs from Florida. One woman brought me a container of her potato salad, someone else her cole slaw. One friend sent a caring letter critiquing our appetizers, and sent us a beautiful box of her homemade cheese wafers -- "the only true way to begin a barbecue meal." (We've recently consulted with her and are now making our own homemade cheddar-cayenne wafers.) Somone broke down crying on my shoulder when she tasted our potato salad. It was exactly the one her grandmother used to make. I told her that it was funny -- we were using MY grandmother's recipe. (I later found out that our recipe is on the Hellman's Mayonnaise label!) Not so funny in those early days were the two times jazz sets and barbecue dinners were interrupted by really loud fire alarms set off by our smoker. It scared the hell out of guests, and our staff. One of those times, a jazz set at Jazz Standard was being reviewed by Ben Ratliff of the New York Times. To his credit, the band played on right through the piercing alarm. There must be something sexy about ribs and jazz. It seems to bring out the animal in people. Twice -- once upstairs at Blue Smoke and once downstairs at Jazz Standard, we've had to interrupt couples engaged in the act of. After all these years in the business, I don't find too much that's outrageous anymore. The only things that truly annoy me are when guests are unnecessarily rude to our staff members or to other guests at the restaurant.

In all the visits we made to barbecue restaurants and pitmasters across the country, we heard lots about spice, wood, sauce, smoking temperature, holding strategies and time. We rarely heard anything about the raw ingredients or meat specs. As you probably know, the pork world is now by-and-large controlled by two huge companies. As we do at all our restaurants, we constantly look for the best raw ingredients we can find. We also care about animal husbandry and the environment. That's why we initially turned to Niman Ranch. Their pigs are raised naturally, and the pork tastes slightly sweeter than other meats we'd tried. The marbling you get in their pork shoulder adds lots of flavor. They're not trying to be "the other white meat" -- which is leaner, but perhaps sacrifices flavor. As for a marketing advantage, I don't recall one write-up or review on Blue Smoke that even mentioned it, so I'd say there has been none. One of my favorite Niman products is their Spicy Beef Links, which is part of our 3-Sausage Sampler along with Kreuz' Texas Hot Links and our own Black Pepper links. As for beef, we have different suppliers, for different products (beef ribs, brisket, burgers, smoked prime rib) and all are grain-fed. In my opinion, Smoked Chicken is one of the underrated dishes at Blue Smoke. We used the one at Black's in Lockhart, Texas as a reference point. As a raw product, we use D'Artagnan's organic chicken (mostly for its wonderful flavor). We Kosher the bird, rub it with butter and then smoke it with apple wood for about an hour and a half. It needs no sauce whatsoever, and with a little sprinkling of our "pepper salt", makes an incredibly satisfying plate of food. Thanks for the question.

Thanks for your interest!

After lots of trial, we've ended up with a beef blend that is 33% brisket, 33% shoulder clod, and 33% chuck. It's about 85% lean and 15% fat. And it's is ground fresh daily. By the way, one of the things I'm interested in seeing us smoke in 2003 is Beef Shoulder (Clod) --which is a specialty in Lockhart, Texas, at places like Kreuz Market and Smitty's. Thanks for asking!

That's a big question for me, and not one for which I have a ready answer. I love the restaurant business, and hope to keep fulfilling my passion in this way for a long time. It's been a great way to feed my interests in food, music, people and art. I've enjoyed writing cookbooks (and enjoy writing in general) and hope to one day do more of that. I get enormous satisfaction from community work, and so far, the restaurant business has been an effective foundation from which to work in that realm -- primarily with hunger relief, neighborhood development and parks. As you may know, all of our restaurants are within a short walk of one another. That helps us keep an eye on things and takes cross-city (or cross-country) commuting out of the equation. I'm impressed with the restaurateurs who have succeeded at that. Above all, I'm committed to continuing to build an organization that is known for consistent excellence and warm hospitality; and one whose success is built upon humane, community-oriented business practices.

We selected our "Ole Hickory" smokers 100% on the advice of Mike Mills -- our barbecue guru from Murphysboro, Illinois. There are two companies he recommended highly. Southern Pride in Marion, Illinois, and Ole Hickory from Cape Girardeau, Missouri. Not too surprisingly, they're run by (highly competitive) relatives on either side of the Mississippi River. They're both outstanding firms that take barbecue seriously. We first had to figure out how much product we'd be smoking on a daily basis. It takes a lot of organization. It's almost like being in the real estate business, with each smoked product getting its allotted space and time in the smokers. The brisket gets an 8-hour lease every night. The pork butt (shoulder) gets 15 hours. The ribs get 6-7 hours, the chicken 1 1/2 hours and the suckling pig goes for 23 hours. Based on all of those hours, we tried to figure out how much time and space we'd need for each item. For example, 80 racks of ribs take up so much smoker space every 6-7 hours, 6 briskets take up so much space for 8 hours, etc. It became a mathematical equation. In the end, we understood which dimensions we'd need, and had two enormous smokers custom-built for our kitchen. I'll never forget the day they were delivered. We had to close down East 27th Street, open the entire storefront of what would one day be Blue Smoke, and then get them lovingly moved into the kitchen. We cut holes in the back of the building to accommodate the back of the pits (that's where the wood is loaded). The fit was perfect --- almost too perfect. In fact, there is no more than 1/4-inch between the top of pits and the steel beam that supports the kitchen ceiling. We were incredibly lucky that we didn't have to re-build the kitchen around the smokers. As I've written in another post, we had lots of problems getting excellent product from the smokers in those early months, mostly related to the enormous updraft from our 15-story smokestack. One night, in an effort to improve our ribs, we shut off the fan on the roof. We ended up with an alarmingly loud fire alarm and an invasion of axe-hauling members of the NY Fire Department. It wasn't pretty. "Ole Hickory" wasn't able to help that much in figuring out our smokestack problems, since they've not had experience with many (if any) urban installations. But once we identified the problem, they were great about helping us install the 3 dampers that have made all the difference in the world in terms of getting smoky flavor and moist meat. All in all we are quite happy with our choice to work with Ole Hickory.

As I mentioned on a previous post, I view jazz artists and chefs in a similar light. Each one must devote years and years to developing a high-leve virtuosity to become the best. There are some chefs who can metaphorically "bend every note" in the octive the way a great musician can "really cook." I've seen incredibly talented chefs apply too much virtuosity at the expense of pleasing people. I've seen brilliant musicians get so into their own head that they forget that they're primarily playing for YOUR pleasure -- not to show off how talented they are. True brilliance in either field only happens when there is an intersection of risk-taking and pleasure. It occurs when true food- or music-lovers feel challenged, and at the same time, lay people feel satisfied. Think the Beatles, or Paul Simon, or Pablo Picasso. Or both of the two musicians you mentioned. The recent deaths of so many jazz greats (Tommy Flanagan was supposed to have been our opening act last March) has made it harder to book recognizeable names, but has opened the door for us to present musicians who we think will be around for the long run. Some are well-known and others are less so. But they're all hired the same way we hire chefs -- they don't play with the attitude of "look what I can play." They play with the attidude of: "Look what I can play for you!". Please check out our website for more information on the musicians we've lined up for Jazz Standard. www.jazzstandard.com

While until now I've never experienced the double whammy of terror and recession, I have had a bit of experience with dips and cycles. Having opened Union Square Cafe in 1985, we withstood the painful recessions of 1987 and 1992-'92, as well as the Gulf War of 1991 when international travel came to a screeching halt, as it has today. It's no fun. But it has to end at some point. And it will. Recessions aren't altogether bad. Some of the restaurants that were on their last legs anyway tend to end their businesses a little earlier than they otherwise would have. Some that are third or fourth tier within their niche also may close. But for many others, the choice is clear: improve or close. And so most improve. Last year, I'd say we worked five times as hard just to achieve the same or slightly better results as the previous year. For what it's worth, here's my advice. Any restaurant conceived today will probably take another year or two to birth. Hopefully, the world will feel safer and the economy stronger by then. At the same time, I wouldn't open anything unless I was really passionate about the concept and menu. There are more dining room seats in NY by far these days, then there are bodies to fill them each night. Sadly, the dining world doesn't need another restaurant these days just to satisfy demand, so a new one had better add something to the dialogue on something. Be well-financed. Project 6 months of operational losses. Don't put too much money into a big-deal design or "stage set." More than ever, people want "real" and will avoid gimmicks. Genuine, food and warm hospitality will bring people back far more powerfully than decor. Biggest factor to succeed: ability to attract, hire, and retain outstanding human beings for our staff. Biggest factor to fail: inability to attract, hire, and retain outstanding human beings for our staff.

The beverage program at Blue Smoke is incredibly important to us, and it's one of the ways we were able to bridge the gap between being a "real barbecue restaurant" and a "real New York restaurant." We know we'll never win the battle of location. When it comes to barbecue, there are solid cultural and geographic advantages to being in a rural, barbecue belt spot with lovingly honed barbecue traditions. That's not New York, and we know it. There's nothing quite like smelling sweet smoke wafting down the backroads a mile before you reach a barbecue destination in the south. We can't do that, and in fact we'd be closed down by NY neighbors if our smoke ever got loose from our 15-story smokestack. But that's no reason we should have to do business with Fedex everytime we want good barbecue. So we looked for things we could do at Blue Smoke to add to the dialogue on barbecue that would make our New York locale become a virtue rather than a hindrance. And beverage selection won out. There are beverage products we have access to in New York that you just can't get in more rural parts. Barbecue cries to be quenched with good drink, and for years, the classic barbecue beverages have been: Coca-Cola, Ice Tea (more or less sweet depending on where you're from), Lemonade, Beer, and Bourbon. (That's not all people drink with barbecue, but those are the most popular.) So, we set out to do the best job we could sourcing or making the best we could in each of those categories. We serve 30 beers by the bottle, which are stored under ice in huge metal tubs. We serve our beers in frosted mugs. As far as I'm concerned, about the only value we can add to beer is to get it colder. We also serve 8 beers on tap. Our most popular draught beer is Blue Smoke Original Ale, which we comissioned Brooklyn Brewery to create based on the flavor profile of our rib recipe. It's also great on its own. We serve 32 different bourbons, 18 tequilas and 18 rums. Cocktails sell well at Blue Smoke and the list consists primarily of American classics. People love the Sazerac, Lynchburg Lemonade, Gin Buck, Mint Julep and Rusty Nail. We make our Iced Tea freshly three times a day, and automatically serve a small pitcher of simple syrup on the side. In a melting pot town like New York, it's impossible to guess precisely how sweet someone's going to want their iced tea, so we make it easy to do it your own way. We serve a lot of our homemade Lemonade as well. It's pretty tart. We also serve thick shakes, malts and floats -- all made with homemade ice cream. We proudly serve Fitz' Root Beer -- a micro-brew root beer I grew up enjoying in St. Louis. Fitz' special ships exclusively to Blue Smoke and Jazz Standard. Now to wine: Even though it was difficult to imagine folks wanting wine with barbecue, I couldn't imagine opening a restaurant where wine didn't play a prominent role. And who ever wrote the rule that wine couldn't be amazing with barbecue? We pick our wines the same way we select table condiments for our food. Barbecue Sauce with Alcohol, if you will. And we've used what we already know about traditional barbecue beverages as our guide. For example, if iced tea works with barbecue, then so would wines with tannin. (Tea leaves have gobs of tannins!). And if people like lemonade, then white wines with sweet-tart acid would do the trick (rieslings and sauvignon blancs are great) . Champagne is great with barbecue. And it's no surprise. Beer and Coca-Cola are great conveyors of bubbles. Our top-selling wine is an Australian Shiraz called Marquis Philips. Its ripe fruit and tannin serves the same purpose as Root Beer. Interestingly, it's imported by Dan Philips' Grateful Palate. Which is no surprise since Grateful Palate specializes in Shiraz and Bacon! Finally, the best way to promote beverage and food matches is to educate our staff and get them enthusiastic about how well things go together. Our manager, Stephanie Duncan does a great job of that. But it's a big new subject for a lot of people, and Stephanie would probably be the first to admit that we've only begun to scratch our potential. Thanks for the great question.

Blue Smoke's menu -- both appetizers and main courses -- include lots of things you do -- and don't -- typically see in a barbecue restaurant. Devilled Eggs? We'd always have them at picnics or box lunch affairs when I was growing up in St. Louis. Sometimes we'd have them with Fried Chicken (not particularly Kosher) and sometimes with barbecued ribs. But I always loved them, and loved tasting how everyone's family had a slightly different recipe for them. They're also fun to make. At Blue Smoke, we go through so many, I've commented that I wish we could find a way to make money on spent eggshells. But we're not in the composting business. Barbecue can be filling (and it's hard to stop eating when it's good), so we have looked for appetizers that are delcious, make you feel happy, and don't necessarily put you over the top before the main course arrives. Unlike a lot of barbecue joints, our appetizer section does not primarily consist of fried foods. Devilled Eggs -- when done well -- are a fun way to begin, and they're also really easy to share at the table. A lot of people order one just to put in the middle of the table. I also love the little watercress, onion and toasted almond salad we serve with the eggs. As for how and when we use eggs at the other restaurants, it changes all the time, but we do use them. Currently at Union Square Cafe there's a lunch dish with Greenmarket Eggs, Montasio Cheese Polenta and crispy Guanciale (smoked pork jowl). We tyr to use aracona eggs (brilliant orange yolks!) from Windfall Farms whenever we can get them. Tabla (actually Bread Bar) has been doing fried eggs with tomato curry and lamb sikh kebab. At Eleven Madison Park, there's a wonderful version of Frisee aux Lardons with poached egg. Gramercy Tavern, we've recently served Pickled Egg with roasted beet salad. People like eggs, and I think they're tremendously underutilized in fine dining.

I love the burger at Blue Smoke. Not a lot of people know about how good it is since the first time you come, you'll most likely want to order ribs or some other type of barbecue. But it's really good. Kenny Callaghan (Blue Smoke's chef) is the same guy who made them for years at USC. Like USC, Blue Smoke makes its own homemade buns. But additionally, we use some of our barbecue spices and baste the meat with a little sauce as it grills. not too much -- just enough to make it taste great. Interestingly, the burger sells much better in the Jazz Standard than it does upstairs at Blue Smoke. Another thing I love are our homemade barbecued potato chips -- but that's another story.