Brad Trent

Steve...c'mon! You gotta know why this thread has got the interest of more than a few of the assembled foodies. ADNY is expensive, exclusive, has a wine list that everybody knows is on the silly end of high-priced, and...surprise...has a spotty record of satisfaction! (which was the only point I was originally trying to explore in this thread...the wine tangent just sorta happened!) Any place that opened with the fanfare ADNY would have the same level of scrutiny thrust upon it so the things said in this thread don't really surprise me. I'm also not particularly suprised when any restaurant bleeds it's customers on the wine list, especially a place that only does one seating. How the Hell else can they make a buck...on the food?!! PuhLeeeze! It's already been pointed out that ADNY probably spends more on the raw materials than other places in this pricing orbit, so assuming they spend more to make a plate of food, and they have to pay the same high overhead as everybody else in Manhattan, the only profit center left would be the alcohol tab. Trust me...I'm sure even Mssr. Ducasse has to feel a bit of a pucker when he scans his own wine list, but he also knows if he were to charge less for his wine I'm sure he would have a hard time turning ANY profit! I do agree that it would be nice to actually find a Bordeaux that is within a decade of it's optimum drinking window for less than a grand. And no, I don't feel putting a $10 Beaujolais on the list, even a good tasting $10 Beaujolais, for only $40 is a good substitute! BeeT's

MartyL offered: "...Last time I saw their list online, I noticed they had Brun's Beaujolais L'Ancien for around $40..." Marty...BABY!!! Whilst I have not had the Brun Beaujolais, like I said, if I'm eating at ADNY I'll be double-damned if I'm gonna order a Beaujolais! I can almost guarantee that a wine like that is on the list for people that know less than zero about wine, and could care less. Goodie for those people...they are the only ones who darken the door who will leave with their wallets only lightened to the tune of two bills! And I don't care if you like Beaujolais or not! Hell, I'll drink Beaujolais if I'm having a ham sandwich while watching a football game but I would have to be on some pretty strong tranquilizers to order a bottle in a restaurant. Ordering a Beaujolais at ADNY is like going to Florence and hunting for a 51 Flavors 'cuz that's your favorite ice cream! This whole discussion is boiling down to whether or not a person feels it is important to have a wine commensurate with the food. I obviously feel it is, and if you don't, good on ya! I didn't get into this thread to turn it into a wine geek thing anyway, and so far my basic theory that a lot of people feel ADNY is NOT the total gastronomic uber-experience it could be hasn't been disproved. BeeT's

R Washburn, in an attempt to bolster his argument, retorted: "...Then pay the corkage and bring a great bottle from home, or drink a modest $100 bottle. My point is that you can easily spend almost as much at Daniel or Lespinasse. You must decide whether or not having a table for the night is worth the extra $$$..." First off, let's clear up the fact that the prix fixe at ADNY is the highest in New York, neigh...AMERICA! Daniel or Lespinasse are still far less, so if we're comparing apples to apples, ADNY is more expensive. And I've eaten at Daniel and Lespinasse and while the wine lists at both places are certainly pricey, neither empties your wallet like the carte du vins at ADNY. Second, just what modest bottles are on the ADNY list for under a C-Note? Excuse me while a giggle myself into a stupor, but why on Earth would I go to the most expensive restaurant in America to have what I would hope to be one of the best dining experiences of my life only to order plonk wine? Maybe it's the wine geek in me, but it would kill me to wake up the next day and the only thing I could remember from the previous night was how lame the wine was that saved me a few shekels! Call me stupid, but I'm a big believer in the whole package...food & wine. An inferior or simply unexciting wine at a place like this will kill the dinner as surely as poorly prepared food or sub par service. Third, I have this small area of my brain that tells me when it's OK to BYO a bottle of wine and ADNY sets of the NO alarm in my head. Maybe if I had a '45 Margaux or a '61 Petrus that I was itchin' to try I could ignore the neural impulses, but I can't get over thinking that unless you bring a simply OUTRAGEOUS bottle to a place like this the sommelier is gonna spit in every single dish placed in front of you... BeeT's PS: And finally, if I simply refer to what AJAY must have paid on his solo trip to ADNY...$150 prix fixe, $120 wine service, $50 glass of bubbly, $15 fizzy water, tax & tip...about $430.00. That's a lotta zops in my neighborhood.

I spewed the following: "...My theory about why a person would be willing to drop $1000+..." to which R Washburn retorted: "...I have never spent that much there, although you could. But, you could do that anywhere if you ordered enough wine..." Enough wine? Nah...you don't have to go hog wild at ADNY to hit my magic number, one "average" bottle will do the trick. It's simple math...$150 per person just to walk through the door...a couple of glasses of champagne/wine/cocktails to start...1 bottle of their fancy-schmantzy $15 water...1 bottle of ANYTHING worth drinking (let's spilt the diff here and say it's $300, trust me, at that price it's still kinda plonky but you could drink it in a pinch!)...plus tax, plus tip...the bottom line is damned close to my $1000 number, easy! BeeT's

Wilfrid opined: "...Brad, I disagree with your point about the wine list. Accepting your premise about the reason people go to ADNY, the conclusion should be that they need only offer very expensive wines, not that they are entitled to price wines unfairly (if that's what they are doing)..." My theory about why a person would be willing to drop $1000+ for a dinner for two is based in large part on fact. The kind of people who have the wherewithal to eat at ADNY want the exclusivity of the place far more than the food experience. Oh sure, the food is (probably) great, but that is totally besides the point. As with any luxury item, pricing at the upper end will ensure a certain clientelle. You won't find me fingering the suits at Bijan and sooner than you'll find me taking up valuable seating space at ADNY, and that's just the way they want it. If they choose to fill their wine list with a few "average" bottles and then price them through the roof, their real patrons could probably care less! I'm sure that when the accountants for ADNY figure out their profit margins, they actually feel justified to charge what they do, so therefore they have to have some "lesser" bottles on the list. Hey, nobody said Manhattan real estate was cheap! Even if a regular at ADNY knows his wine, the chances that he gives a damn that it is overpriced almost never registers...when you have the kind of money where a restaurant like this makes it onto your "regular haunt" list, you ain't worrying if they charge you $150 for a bottle of Mondavi Coastal Cabernet and conversely, if you are adding up how much those truffle-infused breadsticks your date just ordered are gonna cost you, might I suggest a more, uhhh...downtown establishment! BeeT's

I am always amazed and impressed with the way some of you guys are able to recall the most minute details from a "four hour" dinner...Bravo! Now, onto a few nits I wanna pick... First, the wine (since that is the only area where I can claim any expertise when hanging out in a foodie forum). One common complaint that I see in reviews of ADNY is how the wine list is priced. In some respects I think it's almost unfair to even mention how expensive the wine is in this place since everybody knows it's outrageously priced, yet it's usually brought up...why? If you're well-heeled enough to walk through the door, then you shouldn't be complainng about the tariff, right? Isn't that part of the cachet? Doesn't this sort of pricing keep the riff raff at the curb? I mean, you would never catch me paying 30 zops for a glass of Oz petrol-stink riesling that couldn't cost more than $25 a bottle at the most expensive retail shop in NYC, especially when there are real rieslings from Germany and Austria just begging to be drunk, but that's just me! Complain that the sommelier should know better than to serve an average example of the varietal at a restaurant such as this, but don't moan about how much he's charging for it! Second, while I grant that your review of the food was fair and even-handed, I still get the impression that despite your claim that you had a good experience and you would go back again (if somebody else was paying) you were not that impressed. Reading your little digs like: "...the staff proved inflappable if not always responsive...Not the best table in the house by any means, but acceptable...The sommelier has a paltry (think one or two) selection of half bottles available...when all elements came together but somewhat flat...lacking the flavor profile I have come to expect at a restaurant of this caliber...I just wish there were bigger truffle shavings...the restaurant's comparative lack of generosity...the first pour of the wine was on the skimpy side...the level of my water and wine to be neglected a bit more than I would have expected at a restaurant of this caliber...they~glide around on autopilot a bit too much...No one asked about coffee...I still felt the restaurant was being stingy on little things that no competant host or even manager would allow--especially to a repeat customer..." These are not the comments made by somebody who was thrilled with what had to be a serious Platinum Card expenditure! Especially when you ended your review by implying that unless somebody else is reaching for the check you would probably stay at home... In all fairness to ADNY, I have never eaten there, and certainly won't be unless that Powerball ticket in my wallet pays off (or somebody else does reach for the check!), so my comments are simply observations on how others react to this restaurant. I just get the feeling that despite the high praise (read: 4 star ratings) it has received, when real people (read: those who have to work for a living) eat there, they leave satisfied but expecting more... BeeT's

Ron Johnson said: "...Interesting read..." Interesting? No, I think it's a schizophrenic review and 2 stars is just nuts! And a 23 page thread on a pizza joint, even a pizza joint with Mario makin' the pies, is almost as nuts!!! BeeT's

Oohhhh, if only I had checked in earlier!!! Fat Guy 'splained: "...So we needed a couple of hours of feeding that wouldn't take us far from Yonkers..." Just a stone's throw (10 minutes, tops!) from Yonkers is Scarsdale, and il Cigno, a super Italian joint with a KILLER wine list. Steve, the owner, was featured in Wine Spectator a few years back and a number of us NYC Wine Geeks have done our best to help get rid of his older, dustier bottles! BeeT's (I gotta pay more attention to this board...)

How is it that nobody has mentioned ViceVersa yet?!! Very good Italian, with a good wine list to boot! 325 West 51 212-399-9291 ViceVersa

Nina Wugmeister, in a rather confusing declaration, said: "...My personal favorite is Teuscher. Although I think Payard and Maison blow Torres away, in terms of chocolate quality..." Huh? I'll agree with you on Payard, and I've never been to Maison so I have no idea about that place, but Teuscher?!! In my less than humble opinion I must say no chance!!! I liked Teuscher when I knew nothing about chocolate, but as soon as I tasted my first true Belgian chocolate truffle I knew that mass-produced confections like the ones found at Teuscher were really not in the same league! As soon as a chocolatier begins to add preservatives and emulsifiers to the mix you get average candy! Wanna reconsider your statement? BeeT's

I don't know...I don't wanna call myself an expert on chocolate, but I've certainly had far superior chocolate than the stuff Mssr. Torres is pushing. Torres chocolate is very good, but I wouldn't call it great by any means. If you have ever been to Belgium then you'll know what I mean...Belgian chocolate shoppes serve up the most amazing, buttery, creamy and full-flavored examples of the art I have ever tasted, and do it in what seems to be such an effortless manor that when I compare them to anything I've tried in New York I am left wanting. The best specialty chocolate I have had anywhere on this side of the pond has been at a small chocolatier in Kent CT called Blegique. The owner, Pierre Gillisen, is a Cordon Bleu trained chef who opened his shop in Connecticut a few years ago and is making hand made chocolates and superb desserts the way he was taught in Belgium using real Belgian chocolate and the original techniques that I haven't seen here. His fillings are incredible, and the chocolate so pure and focussed that when I try other chocolate now I find myself comparing it to Pierre's chocolate. No preservatives, no wax or emulsifiers, just amazing, full-flavored chocolate! If you ever find yourself in Kent, I strongly urge you to stop off and try some of his stuff. I was there today and had my usual hot chocolate and madellaine...the chocolate thicker than anything you've ever tried, and the pastry so light it floats! BeeT's