Wilfrid

I like questions: What was your family food culture when you were growing up? Very broad: let's say lower middle class English home-cooking, with the most hesitant ventures into the unknown (occasional curry). I used to be the one to introduce new foodstuffs. Was meal time important? No. Only on special occasions. Otherwise, meals were taken as convenient, and usually on trays in front of the TV. Probably why I do things quite the opposite way now. Was cooking important? It was a job which mother did. She liked it some of the time, and she would try out new recipes occasionally, but essentially it was part of her job profile. What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table? Table?. No, I don't think my parents were that fussy, so long as one was well behaved. Who cooked in the family? Mum. Me from about the age of seven or eight. Not dad. Were restaurant meals common, or for special occassions? Special occasions. Even casual Chinese or Indian meals were thought fairly special. Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over? No. When did you get that first sip of wine? Would have been much later than beer or spirits. I think I first drank beer at a Christmas party when I was - I'm guessing - eleven or twelve. Wine was a rare thing. Was there a pre-meal prayer? No, no. Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)? Sometimes. Mum would get into a routine for a while, but it would eventually change. In my early youth, roast chicken was a big Sunday treat. How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life? As little as possible. I hope other people step up with some answers. Should be a wide variety of experiences here.

The cheese shop over on Ninth Avenue in the forties does indeed have a pretty good selection. I used to use it when I lived up that way. Generally, I found the staff to be fairly unknowing about the stock. Nice little place where they age the cheeses themselves with some care and attention is Lamazou on 3rd, around 27th or 28th. The selection is limited (not least by space), but they do make a point of having seasonal cheeses - very good vacherin - and the couple who run it are exceptionally nice.

Tap water it is, then.

I am surprised I haven't been banned yet, the way I bust the place up. The idea is very welcome. I have to say I am running out of spare days between now and the holidays - not that it's all about me. Perhaps we should talk dates before we get all the details in place. By the way, if it's first come first served, this is marking a place for one (Wilfrid sans non-cheese-appreciating Beloved).

OOps.

Yes, 'splain Tribeca Grill please, as it's not an obvious place for cheese tasting. The cheese service, both at table and at the retail counter, in Artisanal can be woefully slow. It's the disadvantage of stocking so many varieties. But then it's the stock which makes the wait worthwhile.

Is that the rather clinical-looking place? I'm afraid I use the obvious places - Artisanal, Dean and Deluca, and more rarely Murray's. My main complaint, even with these retailers, is that the cheese has often been kept too long.

You were? I don't remember. Might have missed you, because I left early with someone or other, I can't remember their name.

And her husband's bigger than you, so watch it. Great evening. Imagine a private food fair. I can't think when I've had the opportunity to do so many comparative tastings. I was struck by the consistency of judgment amongst us, although I won't draw any sweeping conclusions right now. Everyone seemed to prefer the Isle of Mull Scottish cheddar, with its looser texture and curious, almost alcoholic, aftertaste, to the two great English cheeses, Keenb's and Montgomery's. There seemed to be general preference for the sweet, juicy Missouri ham (I can't eat Smithfield ham - far too salty), and for the distinctly firm-fleshed tuna from Dean & Deluca in delicious oil (which one was that?). There seemed to be a preference for the dandelion and mustard greens over the kale and collard. Also, universal approval for the mouthfeel and texture of the Fauchon macarons, although coffee fans like me will be going to Wegman's for the espresso hit. And the potato chips cooked in lard (Granda Utz's?) were standouts. I don't think I got through all the mustards and salsas. Another highlight was the New Zealnd blue (Kokorangi?). Uncompromising old-fashioned blue, austere and almost bitter. Much thanks to Cathy.

Thanks again to John Whiting. It strikes me that the more often we consult and quote the blessed Liebling, the less wrong we shall go on any subject here. Intriguing - I have never tried a blind tasting of vodka, but I share the suspicion that the differences would be almost indetectable. Especially if taste - as makes sense to me - ice cold.

As I have mentioned elsewhere, a slice of a good hard English cheese - Cheddar, obviously, or Cheshire, Lancashire, Wensleydale - goes down a storm with a big rich, plummy fruit cake. A nip of Madeira, or even, if your blood alcohol needs no adjusting, a nice cup of tea. Easier to find in some places, certainly in New York, is the lighter, fruity Italian cake pannetone. You can get a similar effect with that.

Oh the web of language. I am naffing off down the pub now, pausing only to mention that I forgot 'Life is Sweet' - another one of Leigh's films with a heart, until he went back to being pretty savage again with 'Naked'.

Super idea.

I like roll-mops On a Sunday evening, I found the bar area in Babbo to be so jammed with people waiting to be seated in the restaurant, that anyone eating at the bar tables or at the bar itself, were getting crushed by the crowd. It put me right off. Do I take it you had no such problems?

Prompts me to think about the derivation. I recall hearing that it's a contraction of "NAAFI" (pronounced "naffee"), an acronym which stood for "Navy Army and Air Force..." what? Institute? Anyway, the NAAFI was the notoriously ghastly canteen and bar used by non-officers in the British armed forces for refreshment purposes. Anyone confirm that?

You have some, um, interesting friends. If I told my friends I was having fondue, they'd think, "Cool, we don't have to cook!" If I had a "friend" who felt compelled to judge me on whether I was serving the "right" food at a dinner party, I'd find a new friend. Life's too short to try entertaining people who can't be entertained. But then, I'm just a Midwestern oaf. Jaymes: ditto! I think you missed my point, Chocokitty. I was trying to indicate that such a reaction to fondue would be common among British people, certainly under the age of, oh, say fifty. It is a byword for naffness. Significant that Simon and I both thought of 'Abigail's Party' - a fondue-free play (Priscilla) but a touchstone for 1970s cring-making awful naffness. In other words, my friends' reaction would be fairly representative. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

No, I think that's entirely fair - but the accuracy of the observation is astonishing. I think he developed some real heart for his characters in 'High Hopes' and 'Truth and Lies'. Sorry, carry on...

To be rigorously clear about all this, I think the question of whether fondue is a good dish is different from the question of whether it is a naff dish. I quite like a prawn cocktail with a well made sauce, but it's a naff dish.

I'm in on December 11. We should have had the eGullet dinner there.

I recall a dining companion ordering chopped beef in the main restaurant, and getting what was in effect a burger. Is there a distinction here? In other words, are there two different dishes at SW?

Nesita's correct to make exception for soft cheeses, of course. A ripe Vacherin or St Marcellin may require a spoon, and in a Brussels restaurant I was even served the Vacherin in a bowl.

Clearly need to start an Ashes thread while we're making a game of it. If someone hasn't already done so.

Simon is a man of great erudition. I say that only because I typed a reply to this thread which referred to 'Abgail's Party' and then somehow failed to post it. He's bang on. There are many melted cheese dishes which will be with us always, and quite rightly, but the fondue served from the fondue set remains naff. If I told my friends I was having them round to dinner for a fondue, they would think I was joking. If I went ahead with the project, they would assume I was being ironic. This, of course, is the solution for Charlene. By all means go ahead with the fondue, but make it a knowing, ironic post-modern sort of evening. Play Demis Roussos CDs. (Why certain high altitude diners repeatedly order fondue at Artisanal remains a mystery )

G Johnson's advice is consistent with the suggestion that you bung the lobster in the freezer for a few minutes - not to freeze it, but to render it even more insensible than god created it* - before plunging it into the pot. *Discussion of creationism v evolutionism not solicited by this figure of speech, thanks.

Hotels are your best bet, as they have to keep their kitchens open to feed guests, and you should be able to do much better price-wise than Claridges. I had some wonderful Christmas Day lunches at the sadly missed L'Auberge de Provence at the St James's hotel.