mbernstein

This is getting more complicated. What is the "downtown" food community?

As I am on writing binge about food in my city, I second Alexandra on the link. But I also point to http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=112285 , which has very good suggestions.

Thanks for the clarification... I'm just wondering now if this is supposed to be good or only cool, laying bare for the same price... Food shall be sensational, I guess. But this gets off topic. Thanks again.

Sorry if this has been addressed before, but could you explain the "Momofuku phenomenon"? I am heading to NY in two weeks and would like to understand what it is all about before going. Thanks.

Just discovered this thread. As there are so few about Brazil and as I live in Rio I would like to share my 2cents for future visitors. I agree almost completely with the posts above from fellows cariocas, but will add another input for help (or confusion, I don't know): - High cuisine: Sudbrack and Olympe. I think they are both on a level of their own in the city and above Pre Catalan. - Mid-level nice restaurants: Carlota seems to me the most reliable. It is not too daring, just one touch or another, but everything tastes quite good. Deserts quite nice as well with local touches like Guava with cheese ice cream. Zaza tends to experiment more with mixed results to my taste. Bar D'Hotel is good food, but mostly a place to see people in a nice environment. I would not call it a food destination. Zuka is a good option and Sushi Leblon as well. Try the sashimi variations with slices of Foie Gras on top. Quite good. - Local: I agree that the simple is sometimes the best. Filé de Ouro is probably the nicest beef in local variations. Another a La Carte meat place is called Majorica. Besides that you have the "rodizios" places where Porcão tends to have the best meat. Try farofa. Bira is really good for local food with wonderful sight seeing on the way and there. You'll eat with small monkeys (of the Cebus genus type, Google says) around you. Siri Mole is very good for sea food in Bahia style (African influenced). - I would add Antiquarius for one of the best Portuguese food outside Portugal...I guess. This is on the more expensive side, though. Finally, pizza (everyone eats them at some point), there is Capriciosa, which to me has the best ingredients. I hope this helps someone in the future. Marcos

I live ion Rio and have been to Sudbrack three times. Last visit was about the same time as yours. Interestingly your comments match my perceptions quite rightly, although I didn't have the knowledge of how to put it into words. I specially like your comment on taking time to create an outstanding dish as opposed to an ever changing menu; and the ingredients/freshness. This opposition in a way matches my thoughts on restaurants I visited recently like El Bulli (on a different level, of course) as opposed to Can Roca. I am heading to NY later this month and am wondering if I will experience this dichotomy as I have meals set at Per Se (ever changing) and Jean Georges (where I'm going to have the ever present Tasting Menu). Back to Sudbrack. I still like it a lot, but I have to say that my previous two visits there, during 2007, were more exciting. I believe she is going further in her experiments with local and simple products as opposed to more sophisticated ingredients to the results commented above. That said, in terms of high cuisine, this is the most interesting restaurant in Rio (the only other one of this level is Olympe by Claude Troisgros, son of the famous Roanne chef, which does a less daring but quite tasty French food mixed with Brazilian ingredients type of food). In São Paulo there is DOM by chef Alex Atala who follows the same path as Sudbrack and who is considered Brazil' top chef these days. BTW, the Foie with salt is really quite good.

Thank you all.

Thanks. Great ideas/comments. Should I make a reservation for lunch, or can I just walk-in? It will be a party of three. In case of walk-in, which time is better, near opening (12pm) or near closing (2:30p) or any?

I go to NY only every 4 years or so, and I would like to have the best experience (and tasting the most and best) I can have at JG. My doubt is: People talk a lot about what a bargain is to lunch at JG; but considering the above, can one lunch match a dinner with the tasting menu there (is there a tatstinh menu at lunch?)? Would I have to spend the same amount of money to have a similar experience? Should I do two lunches instead of one dinner? I know this is very subjective, but I would appreciate some comments on this. Thanks a lot.

One thing is confusing me. As I said earlier, one of the best dishes I had at Can Roca was the "cabrito" (Kid) with goat’s milk parmentier. Everybody says the meat was the kid's belly. But on my menu in Spanish it was "Cabeza de Cabrito", which is the kid's head. At the time, I even wrote Can Roca asking if this was the brains and they answered : "Dear mr Berstein, Well, not only brains but also cheeks and the rest of the beefy parts of the head." In the English version of the menu I had it also reads kid's belly like everyone else's. Fact is, mine was exactly the same dish as in the post above, so I wonder why is this difference, and what we actually ate...

Carolyn, Thank you for the info. I managed to book. I guess for one person is easy. It seems that they will not have kobe beef, though... And just to inform people, they said it is now U$ 300.

I'll be in LA next week and I am getting really tempted to go to Urasawa. I'm not so fanatic (although I like it) about Japanese food, but this seems to be the ultimate experience in this type of food. My only doubts are: - I decided that in this trip to LA I would definitely eat original (Japanese) Wagyu. I was planning to go to Wolfgang Puck's CUT which clearly has it. At the CUT the portion is around 6-8oz. Is there Wagyu in every meal at Urasawa or just some days? How much in terms of weight of it comes (approximately, of course)? - would a Japanese costumer consider this restaurant traditional, fusion, western influenced? - is necessary to book in advance? Out of curiosity, how does this rank in comparison to top notch Japanese restaurants in Japan (I know the debate about Michelin Stars, but I am curious as this is a two star and in Japan they gave three stars to dozens of restaurants)? Thanks for the help. Marcos PS: BTW, Carolyn, I haven't managed to get to the photos on your blog (very nice one, btw).

I had the bigger menu. It was EUR 100. The smaller is 85. The glasses of wine were 6, 7 e 8. And there still is the ALC. There were 7 snacks ("Bombón de Pichon" was the highlight here) , 9 courses and 3 deserts plus 4 petit-fours.

I posted a similar, although shorter, comment on another topic I started, but wanted to post it here as well, as most people searching for Can Roca will end up here. I post my comments as an evolving "eater". I've been to a bunch of well commented restaurants, but people here know quite a bit and I can't really begin to match their knowledge. Thus, I'll be brief, but if anyone wants to know something specific, I will be glad to try to help. People did this for me here and it was really enlightening. That said, I ate at Can Roca last Wednesday. It was a wonderful night. Some outstanding dishes (to my taste, of course: the Gambas, the Cabreza de cabrito, the parmentier de olivas verdes, the adaptacion del perfume Tresor de Lancome)), great service. I was enjoying as much as to ask for another dish outside the big degustation menu. And it was not because I was hungry. Just out of gluttony and curiosity. They were so nice that they didn't want to charge. But I added some bucks to the check. The sommelier (not the brother in my case) was really honest. He understood my taste, or lack of it, and gave me three glasses of different red wines from Catalunia (there was no Priorat for a change) that I quite liked and didn't seem to compete with the food, and were cheap. And if you compare to similar quality restaurants, I wouldn't say it was a bargain, but it was a quite nice price indeed. Last year I ate at similar priced restaurants in Italy that couldn't compare to this... At least until they get their third star. Also, the restaurant (new address) looks really good. Modern, smart, without being cold. I just wish I can go back soon.

Once again I would like to thank everyone on this topic. I ate at Can Roca last Wednesday. It was a wonderful night. Some outstanding dishes (to my taste, of course), great service. I was enjoying as much as to ask for another dish outside the big degustation menu. And it was not because I was hungry. Just out of gluttony. And if you compare to similar quality restaurants, I wouldn't say it was a bargain, but it was a quite nice price indeed. Last year I ate at similar priced restaurants in Italy that couldn't compare to this.

Yes, I've been browsing through these restaurants posts, but not many recent reports. Since then Can Roca has moved etc. That's why I started the post. I've read your review, Alexandra. Looks tasty. It helped. Obrigado. I guess I'm gonna try Can Roca first, as even a big fan of Sant Pau like docsconz pondered that if Can Roca was on his way, he would go for it. Makes sense. I am also more to the edgy stuff these days... And I have to pick one after all. Thanks to all.

Well, I can only be glad that I made my disclaimers when I recommended it!

Great discussion. Thanks. I'm following it closely. I agree that Can Fabes is great. But I don't go that often to the area to repeat restaurants. Also, when I went there it was not only a wonderful dinner, but the climax of a perfect day with my wife. I don't want to risk ruining this memory going there alone in the middle of a fast trip etc. That's why it will not be a consideration. But thanks for the comments.

Sounds like pretty good advice. I've been to both Can Fabes and Santceloni. That's why I am not considering the former for this trip. Since on my last trip to the area I had a reservation at Sant Pau that I had cancel perhaps I will try this first. Thanks.

Thanks for both your replies. Would it be too much of a stretch to say that Can Roca tends more towards El Bulli and Sant Pau more to Can Fabes? I ask this because I will be going to El Bulli in the same trip and from Lenski's comments it seemed to me that Sant Pau would be a more complimentary experience and Can Roca might be in a closer arena drawing unwanted comparisons. Or is this complete nonsense?

I'll be in Catalunia in May, and may have time for a good lunch. Ignoring reservations, etc., Sant Pau is 50KM off my way (in regards to Can Roca's Girona), meaning a total of 100KM addition to my trip. Considering this (but not too much ), can anyone who has had a recent experience in both Sant Pau and Celler de Can Roca comment on which may be worthier to go? I thank you in advance. Marcos

Curious to know Kai-m experience at La Pergola. If he hates me, indifferent or agrees...

Thanks.

I don't remember about the coperto. And, yes, now I understand why the waiter was so thankful. Although being far from rich, going to restaurants like La Pergola is my personal sin once in a while, I'm glad I did it. They deserved it.

I guess I can post a link here with no commercial purposes: http://www.davittorioristorante.com/default.htm This is about 80 km to the west of Agrigento, near the city of Menfi. The Albergo itself is very simple, as well as the restaurant. If you stay for the night you can include the full dinner, which is really good. The beach which it faces is very nice. I heard the meal changes according to the will of the chef and what came from the sea that day. I didn't actually choose what I ate. I like the tasting menus (I suppose you can this one like this) and just ask for them expecting to be surprised. The one I had started with a series of sea fruits with various sauces and different preparations: grilled, fried... Nothing fancy but very flavored, with tasty ingredients. Around 7 things. Delicious. At this point me and my wife were completely "sold" to the chef. And relieved. Because at first the Albergo was in on our planned way. But my wife got sick one day and I had to rearrange our whole schedule and Da Vittorio became a 160 km detour for us (80 way in; 80 way out). We had to pass Agrigento (which we still had to visit the next morning) in the wrong direction for us. It took us almost 2 hours to get there and the Albergo is so simple, that we didn't expect too much from the dinner. Don't take me wrong, it would be a nice stop as was the case in our initially planned route. But to spend 2 hours going there and coming back to Agrigento... My wife smiled at me sarcastically, and I feared failure! Luckily, we got our rewards. After the starters (?!) there is the pasta. A variation of "alla Norma". Simple and so good. I had to force myself to stop eating it as there was a last course of grilled fishes and sea fruits (this was the most usual part of the meal, although everything was very good, just taken from the sea - good but unsurprising). The wine was cheap. If my bad memory does not betray me I had a Planeta Nero D'avola for EUR 25, which I liked a lot. The total for the night plus dinner was 150 (not incl the wine). But you can go there only for dinner and I believe lunch is the same. La Pergola and Da Vittorio were the most remarkable meals I had in my trip, and the good thing was that they were in the opposite extremes in terms of restaurant classification: local/international, simple/fancy, cheap/expensive... I just hope you agree with me at least partially when you go to those places. I don't want to be accountable for any big disappointments... Wow, I'm on witting spree...