Robert Nesta Marley
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Posts posted by Robert Nesta Marley
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Bob,
I think the controversy about Brett in Beaucastel and Tempier is particularly heated because they used to deny its presence.
joe,
yes, in dom. tempier's case it was a bit hilarious, no, the denial? but that's, what, a way inexpensive wine, on average......
but at beaucastel it was charming (no; i'm not one to glorify). i'm not sure about the explicit "denial" there, beyond what you mean by the "cleaning" etc communicated to people. i, if you don't already know, have mixed personal feelings with regards to what happened in '88.
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first of all, the term "brettanomyces" is not meant to be capitalized. (i am, of course, imposing certain personal philosophical theory here.) anyway, "brett" can certainly be perceived---way perceived---through wood, from most of my experiences with the yeast, Joe, which, thank you, has the ability to be cultivated, as per a certain perspective. good brett (yes, subjective, i know) upstages even tardieu-laurent's goods, which i commented upon somewhere else here. perhaps not to everyone, especially not to critics of dominique laurent's work.....
have i made any sense? or has tommy tarnished my technical sensibilities for the time being.....
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comments on the wine service? is the sommelier/wine director amy lewis, of north pond cafe???
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(Did Steve Jenkins leave Fairway? I would go there if he hasn't; but I recall that he did).
no, not only has steve jenkins not left fairway, he hasn't left new york . and for that, we all must be grateful!
i recently hosted a tasting with him, at which he showcased 9 cheeses, almost all non-AOC/DO. his passion and commitment for the craft has got to be commended to the extent i've not considered before, and the degree to which he has the ability to communicate them to an audience, is, well, outstanding (he was a theatre major in college, apparently.
). if you're interested in the specific selections, email me. but his accompaniments were equally compelling, and improvisational (showcasing his true passion, in my opinion). in any case, ask for steve at fairway.....he's not one to hold back recommendations, and he's so damn honest, which is so integral at a cheese counter. really insist on speaking with him, if you politely can, and ask him about those south african peppers!.....p.s. no, he's not updating "the cheese primer". but it is going into its 5th printing.......
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Nicholas Feuillate, Blanc de Blanc ($30) for pre-dinner/apetizers.
there's a blanc de blanc bottling of feuillate??? hmm.
edited to implore: how great is their rose? damn good, for my dollar. granted, not barnaut, but for the QPR...
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Steve was that really a 1985 Quintarelli Ca de Merlo? Have you tried any recent vintages? Should I be holding on to my 1997 1998? Have you also tried Quintarelli's Valpolicellas? They do really need a lot of time to come around.
This exact wine was recently available (still might be) at Chambers Street. bottles looked perfect. Around $40 if i remember correctly.
best,
yb
um, excuse me?
(edited so i could clear my throat before i dare respond)
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Today wines loaded with brett and dekkera are recognized as faulted wines the world over. This is not to argue that wines have to be squeaky clean like most California and Australian wines. However, any wines that have obvious aromas of brett or dekkera are faulted and should be returned as you would any faulted wine. Certainly there are wineries where very low levels of dekkera and brett exist and add to the overall complexity of the wine, but these wineries are few and the exception not the rule. I believe that even these wineries would prefer to be brett and dekkera free,but these yeast strains become part of the milieu of yeasts in the winery and you cannot get rid of them without getting rid of the beneficial natural yeasts that have become essential to producing a particular style of wine.
Beaucastel spent all that money for good reason. Even they did not think the wine was better with all that brett in it.
I'm not one to argue with Becky Wasserman--or her son, for that matter...
but a brett alert:
with regards to yeast strains becoming part of the "milieu" of yeasts in a winery.....there's more than a trace of brettanomyces in tardieu-laurent's '97 hermitage (which took 5 minutes to make themselves known). what do you make of that in this quasi-negociant bottling? has anyone witnessed their elevage ?
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2001 german rieslings are booty. totally lack aromatics, and all are underripe. please pass this on.
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Picky, picky with those words. I'm pretty happy calling it a flaw if it isn't *supposed* to be there. New oak is supposed to be there because the winemaker *adds* the flavor to the wine after its made. Nobody adds brett to their wine. But you might like brett and not like new oak in your wine. But those are preferences, not evaluations.
precisely one of the initial contentions on this thread. brett is being cultivated now, deliberately . it may not be in the form of chips, but it's being done with intention. so are you saying that because something is imposed with intention during vinification it is not a flaw, but rather a non-/preference?
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you can argue that brett has been romanticized but you can't argue with the fact that more than a few people like its profile. so by calling it a fault would you expect a sommelier to hold back the bottle & open another because a natural yeast had evolved in the wine after fermentation? well then she wouldn't be able to serve you the vintage you had ordered, would she, because in most cases brett has "infected" all of the wine from a certain vintage. so are you going to call a whole vintage flawed?
edited to add: and besides, i perceive the use of new oak as a flaw in california chardonnay. i don't think it's supposed to be there. so there.
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Certainly an excess of brett aromas are a reason to reject wines because often they reflect poor winemaking.
i won't argue per se with your extensively quoted scientific substantiation re: brettanomyces (pardon what i think is an incorrect spelling of the word). however, i know at least one major institution in carneros pinot who says that he's toyed around with it (he told me himself), and i took it to mean he was referring to the cultivation of the bacteria; which, like others, can be cultivated.
i don't necessarily agree, again, with the assessment that brett is a fault. in fact, i think the statement excerpted above is quite subjective and judgemental. have you ever tasted '83 beaucastel (again, i return to this wine as an example of brett at its pinnacle)? it is naturally occurring, and has been for a very, very long time. i assume there are some of you who would chalk it up to a "dirty barrel", but i think that's a subjective call. it's become a perception of "style" to some in the new world, and a result it is being copied. i'll try to get more specific soon, but perhaps marcus can chime in, he making a similar claim with regards to the intentional cultivation of brettanymyces.
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I haven't figured out how to program my computer to skip the loading pages and I scroll through both load pages each time I log on. So I'm stuck noticing the articles in the process.
thanks, matthew grant.
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you're so silly, sometimes, stevie.
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Do sommeliers ever reject a bottle after they sniff and sometimes taste it? I have never seen this happening, except once at Faugerion in Paris.
yes. you may not see it on many occassions because they are tasting the wine out of your sight. they save many people from the displeasure of having to reject a wine. or of drinking a tainted wine because they weren't able to detect TCA, etc.
i don't think brett is a fault, by definition; just to touch on your other point. it is cultivated by some winemakers for stylistic reasons, and many question those intentions.
many love the brett in '83 beaucastel, for example. others don't. but you shouldn't expect a sommelier to identify the characteristic as a fault for you.
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Haven't had the October 21st. Is that a harvest date, or does it commemorate an important revolutionary date? I like his wines. though i'd usually rather have something from the damned hill than Bue'.
These days I'm drinking Sancerre with pix of dogs on the bottle.
Off topic, what do you make of red Sancerre? Personally, I think it's all a mistake--the stuff would all be better as rose.
yes, 21 october is the date of the harvest.
okay, dagueneau is trendy. with a name like silex, c'mon. and i never said they weren't oaky. not SFJoe's style, steve? aren't we talking about the loire?
steve, which cotat? francois? post some tasting notes the next time you open one.
RED SANCERRE ALWAYS DISAPPOINTS. every one i've tasted is made in this international style. no fruit, all caramel. where'd they get the money for the new oak? low acid. low acid!
blech. -
toby just reminded me of one discussion we've had in the past, but i did find this other fun one in which people are discussing cheese service in restaurants.
there's a bit of discussion with regards to retail cheese shops. namely a comment from liza about poor/inconsistent experiences at fairway. has anyone been there lately?
i knew i wouldn't be able to do the link-posting thing. sorry, but i'm terrible with these things. but this interesting thread is called "cheese boards", and it was started in august 2001 or something like that.
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bierkraft in brooklyn, if it's convenient, has a superb staff.
otherwise, why would you go anywhere other than murray's?
but i could've sworn we've had this discussion before. does this sound familiar to anyone? i'll look for the thread.
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whatever you do, don't drink the stuff. i hear it could ruin your palate forever.
edited to clarify that i am joking around.
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but i prefer pouilly fume.
Really? Why?
generally speaking, across the board (and perhaps because the production of P-F is so much smaller than that of sancerre), i find the majority of P-F more compelling than the majority of sancerre. plus, you get tired of people in nyc asking for a glass of sancerre every ten minutes, when you suspect that the majority of them would really prefer a glass of cakebread chardonnay if it were put in front of them. so "sancerre" feels trendy, and no i have nothing to back that up with other than personal experience. and i can be biased against trendiness for the sake of, blah blah.
no, there's not the minerality in P-F that drives the wine in cotat freres etc. and have you tasted the top cuvees from crochet, the october 21st? (lucien crochet, sancerre) and there's another one that's slipping from memory now. so do i prefer a top sancerre prduction to a top P-F? well, it depends what i feel like drinking. but dageneau P-F i would not turn down. (although sometimes it sees oak, i think).
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i think spottswoode's is fine for a SB from CA. other than that, most NZ and CA SBs are going to be completely fruit-driven, whereas if you look to the loire you'll usually get an undercurrent of minerality, which can be intriguing--adding another dimension for someone who may be looking for it. sancerre is an obvious choice here, but i prefer pouilly fume. marcel dechamps' wines are quite aromatic, if you can find them there; look for the "les loges" designation on the bottle. the '98s are still lively should you be lucky enough to see any.
otherwise, look to friuli, et al for sauvignon. oftentimes concentrated gobs of apricots, but, again, it's not sancerre! sancerre, what's that?
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Sometimes I get the impression that some restaurants do not let sommeliers taste special bottles and sommeliers serve themselves more out of curiosity than other more lofty reasons. .....If they ask me or if I like them I am more than happy to share the bottle I ordered but I like this to be a matter of my discretion rather than theirs.
Well, there's nothing wrong with being curious with a wine. i would hope that my sommelier would be curious about something i'd chosen; and it's fun to approach a wine with anticipation together, and discuss reactions. this is the passion that should fuel service. but i'm sure many sommeliers are careful with guests who may get proprietary about the bottle they paid for. and they have the right to be, so that's a salient point. but i don't know any sommelier that would come out and ask for a taste of a wine that's already been tasted by a client (barring a suggestion of defect).
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so you do want the sommelier to taste your wine, vilmor? is that what you're saying?
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One small correction, the pizzle was lamb and it was served in cream sauce, I kid you not.
Come again?
JB!!!!
i ate quite a bit of the sweetbread & tongues' dishes (
), despite a warning from ali that there would be much food. so i didn't have but a bite of the pizzle.but it wasn't only because i was full.
i did not know what pizzle was, and i was all set to shovel more food in (it looked so good, with the cream sauce!) when someone told me. i can't remember who--it might've been charles--but it seriously affected my appetite.
the red from the loire was a production by claude courtois, a big wierdo who makes funky wines.
muchas gracias to darling nina for organizing a wonderful gathering with lovely company. it was a pleasure to meet simon & charles, and always great fun to dine with the ladies--you know who you are!
signed
bobby.
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now i've decided i'm nixing bubbly and want to drink very old chenin. i tasted '96 coulee de serrant last week and it was very encouraging. smoky, dark, and needed air. that's how i feel. times 7. maybe then i'll feel better.
now to get my hands on some foreau. help.
1994 Chateauneuf du Papes
in Wine
Posted
that's when library selections on wine lists seem worth the extra money.