thirtyoneknots

Andy, I've recently taken to the Bijou, but I've been making it 2 oz gin 1/2 oz chartreuse 1/2 oz red vermouth orange bitters. I'm thinking of adding a bit more chartreuse as I think that ingredient makes the drink. Now I'm curious as to how your version and mine compare. I really enjoy the recipe above. Tom ← I definitely agree about Chartreuse making the drink, the Bijou is, in my opinion, the best showcase for Chartreuse as a cocktail ingredient. Some people may shy from the powerful herbal-ness, but adventuresome palates will be rewarded! I will in turn try the dryer recipe you listed and we can compare notes. As currently mixed I can only handle a Bijou when I really want something rich (though it still functions well as an aperitif). -Andy

That sounds pretty good, definitely going to have to try it. Always on the lookout for more uses for Chartreuse.

I've never had any of the Anchor ryes (hard to find around here) but I thought the 18th Century style was 100% rye, and that's why they can't call it "rye whiskey" on the bottle. Perhaps the 19th century style has a more orthodox mashbill (which certainly seems appropriate, given the name). -Andy

I tried to find a thread similar to this but searching for 'wine cocktails' on eGullet is like trying to drink from a firehose, so please forgive me if this has been covered before. So obviously aperitif wines like vermouth and lillet (one of my favorite ingredients to mix) are staples of cocktail culture, since cocktails are typically employed as aperitifs in their own right. And of course champagne and other sparkling wines also hold an important place in the Cocktail Kingdom. What I am more in search of though is cocktail recipes that employ table wines of all kinds, and to a lesser degree fortified wines like sherry and port (though these are much more common). Most of the cocktail recipes I have seen that employ wine did not excite me enough to try them, and the few that I did try left me unimpressed. An extremely notable exception would be the wonderful Falling Leaves by Ms. Audrey Saunders, which I tried recently with the Poire William I gave my girlfriend's mom for Christmas. The highly excellent nature of this drink gave me confidence that wine cocktails are not only possible, but can compete with cocktails of other types, though I was hoping for a few other ideas on directions to take. Any and all input would be greatly appreciated. -Andy

I would also be very interested to know the mashbills for different ryes, if anyone were to have this information handy. -Andy

I've been wondering about this for a while, and perhaps someone can shed a little light on this for me... Since my first taste of it, I've been fascinated with Licor 43 (aka Cuarenta y Tres), which is a Spanish herbal liqueur whose primary flavor is vanilla. Now I think 43 is rather interesting because it seems to be the most popular herbal liqueur out there today (very open to debate, I may be very wrong), something I attribute to the primary flavor being a familiar flavor to most people, unlike something like Benedictine or Chartreuse. Personally I love both of these, but I think most people find the flavor a little medicinal, especially since in my experience people tend to try a lot of things straight that should really (at least to the neophyte) be employed as a mixer. But I digress. Now I'm pretty sure the question I set out to ask is this: How old is this stuff? The recipes and history for Chartreuse and Benedictine date back centuries. Is 43 something similar or is it something that was pulled out in the 80s or 90s? The website is pretty vague on the history which makes me suspicious. Either way, I love the stuff, just kind of curious. If you have some and don't know what to do with it, try it in Robert Hess' Bloomsbury or Jeff Berry's Beachbum's Own. Both wonderful drinks which showcase the flavor nicely (if a bit on the sweet side). -Andy

Much fun, I'll be in Houston this weekend, might try to find the tray at the golf store. At the very least it might be nice to be able to make enormous ice cubes, shape aside.

I pretty much agree that something that is labelled 'Grande Champagne' is probably not quite what you're looking for for a mixer. A nice VS Cognac would probably be more suitable.

Possibly easier would be a mold of the type used for casting bullets and fishing weights from lead, just two pieces that clamp together with the shape in the middle, fill with lead (or water) and cool (or freeze).

I did consider tweaking the vermouth preportion as well, I'll give it a go before the bottle is empty (soon ;-) If you like Negronis, try a Bijou (equal parts gin, red vermouth, chartreuse, dash orange bitters). It tastes very little like a Negroni and is not at all bitter, but it has the same rich quality to it. Or, feel free to adjust the ratio for a drier drink. -Andy

Ok...today was the Manhattan, with the baby Sazerac. 1.5 oz Rye .75 oz Vya sweet 2 dashes Angostura stir/strain/up, garnish with a fat twist Pretty nice, not gonna lie, but once again it was so...something. Light seems like such a strange word to describe straight rye, but I don't know what else to call it. I think I've more or less come to the conclusion that while I really do like the Sazerac 6 yr, and plan on keeping it around, but it probably won't replace Wild Turkey as my go-to rye (and hence, go-to whiskey). Of course, going to try to use up the bottle in different drinks this week (I've got help). Probably next on the slate is the Vieux Carre. I had a couple of thoughts on the stuff though, namely I was wondering if anyone had any info on the mashbill for Sazerac 6 in relation to Old Overholt and Wild Turkey (the other ones I am most familiar with). Back before I knew about rye, my ultimate Manhattan was made with Maker's Mark, and I found myself comparing this Manhattan to that in a way. The other thing is that I rarely go much for sour-type drinks based on whisk(e)y, though I can't really lay a finger on what it is about them that I don't like as much, compared to gin, rum, or brandy. However today I was sipping that Manhattan and I wondered about trying a few sour-types with it, starting with the ones that I do enjoy and moving from there. Stay tuned. Final thoughts on that Manhattan: I'm going to try it again with Bitter Truth Aromatic Bitters, it seemed like it would be just the thing for the lighter flavor of the Sazerac (I found TBT Aromatic to be lacking in punch, though delicious). -Andy

Wow well maybe it's not acceptable then. I never used it in things where the brandy flavor was very prominent or articulated so I guess I never noticed. I just happened to try it once and it worked for what I was doing at the time. I don't have any right now, still trying to use up the Chatelier that I don't care much for, but I suppose I won't be going back to it. Not that I make many of those types of drinks anyway. Use more Cognac and Calvados now. Hell, I probably use more Pisco than American/well brandy now. -Andy

Certainly looks neat--no question the guy is an artist, but is what he made there any more functional than the cube he started with (provided it will fit in the glass)? Seems like it would be better to not have it out of the freezer and handling (and warming) it all that time. -Andy

I love the richness of the 1:1:1 Bijou, in the same way I love the richness of a Negroni, though sometimes I want that same flavor in a drier drink. I would suggest trying something like Boodles in it before adjusting the ratio too much. The first time I had a Bijou with Boodles it tasted almost like a different drink. It really begs for the dryness and powerful juniper that Boodles brings to the table. Also, I think Boodles is one of the best mixing gins going out there, though I was very unimpressed every time I made a Martini with it. Go figure. As for 'Big Boy' being the Atomic bomb: highly, highly unlikely. If we are to operate on the notion that the recipe was added in a later edition, I would say it's more likely the drink was named for the enormous Big Boy locomotives, built during WW2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Pacific_Big_Boy Speculation, but moderately informed speculation. -Andy Edit: spelling

Note that I specify E&J for things that are not Sidecars. I would never really bother making a Sidecar (or a Stinger, on the rare occasion I drink one) with anything but the best stuff I could afford. If I don't feel like using the good stuff, I drink something else. -Andy

A decent VS grade Cognac should cover the bases nicely, you really can't go too wrong with Hennessey in my book. While I don't mind Covoursier for sipping, I don't think it's a very good mixer. I have heard of a brand called Chalfonte whose VSOP is supposed to be a good bottling at a good price, but I haven't had any luck finding it. The only problem with Hennessey is that a fifth will typically run you upwards of $25, which can turn Cognac cocktails into special occasion affairs. Now Hennessery will work fine for anything from an Alexander or even a tiki drink all the way up to a Sidecar, though I think most would agree that it is more or less wasted in these first two instances, as much as it is required to have it (or something of comparable quality) for the Sidecar. For drinks where the quality of the brandy being used is not paramount, an inexpensive American (or Spanish or whatever) brandy should do nicely, E&J VSOP has done well for me at about $10/fifth. Hope this helps! -Andy

My impression was initially, and remains, that the Sazerac will do best in a Manhattan, and I've been longing for it since I first whiffed the bottle. Manhattans have long been my favorite, hands-down, and to make this one even more special, I've managed to acquire some Vya. Sooooo, stay tuned to this very thread for another Sazerac Rye update. Tomorrow's edition: the Manhattan. PS: I always make my Manhattans with a (lemon) twist, I don't even think I have any cocktail cherries in the house anymore. -Andy

Another phase of putting the Sazerac 6 yr through the paces: tonight it was an Old Fashioned, made thusly: 4-5 dashes rich simple syrup (about 1/2 tsp) 3-4 dashes Angostura 2 oz Sazerac Rye add ice, stir, garnish with twist. Once again the stuff was so smooth and different from my usual go-to brands for OF's that it really had me contemplating my preception of what rye is. Almost too smooth. Though not as much as the Sazerac, this drink bordered on gulpability. -Andy

I think this would be a fascinating discussion to split off, if the topic hasn't already been resolved.

My experience with different ryes is so limited that I perhaps used inappropriate adjectives. Of the ryes available to me, Jim Beam didn't impress, Old Overholt I don't like much (except in Sazeracs and Old Fashioneds...weird), and Wild Turkey I love. Perhaps this consistent use of one brand made too much of an impression of what Rye should taste like, and so a different bottling just seemed so different. As far as another good rye, I could only describe it in terms of Wild Turkey, which is a lot more powerful, I think, and so maybe that wasn't quite fair. I do like the stuff, but I'm just not quite used to a rye you could sip on the rocks. Obviously more investigation is necessary. Stay tuned. ;-) -Andy

Forgot about the 1922 recipe. Sidecar aside, what about the diaspora of American bartenders that Prohibition caused? It seems like it would be easy to argue that any drink created at an 'American Bar' in London, Paris, or whatever, was still a 'Prohibition Cocktail.' These guys took their traditions and expertise to places with different influences and were able to come up with stuff that may never have been created otherwise, either in Europe (or Latin America), or in the US. And even if the drink was created by a British bartender, in the UK, surely his level of innovation was to satisfy the thirst of his American expatriate customers, for whom a pint just would not do. Of course I have immense respect for bartenders worldwide, not trying to minimize anyone's contributions, but I do think it is important to remember that the effects of Prohibition were felt worldwide. Well, at least in the drinking world. -Andy

Sidecar doesn't fit the bill? Or do you mean something actually invented in America? It's interesting to call the Last Word a classic, since it was only rediscovered as a drink worth making in the past few years. Before that it was no more classic than all the other weird drinks you see in books from the era. I must personally admit to not being the hugest fan of the drink (maraschino rarely does much for me, donno why), but I can see the merit of it regardless. However, did it really 'stand the test of time' the way even the lowly Alexander has? No contest, of course, as to which is the more interesting drink, but I think if you had entered a bar anywhere between 1927 (give or take) and 2007 and ordered an Alexander, you would have gotten something resembling an Alexander. Last word? of course not. Unfortunately Old Fashioneds and Manhattans usually fail this test of classic, but at least the bartender probably has heard of it. Now the Sidecar, that's as classic as anything ever was. -Andy

Huzzah! The Stomp continues!

Rye can be hard to come by around here and the Sazerac 6 yr was recently added to the cabinet here in Apt 401 (previously the go-to was Wild Turkey). Tonight the inaugural drink was made with it, Sazerac (natch). The drink was delightful in every sense of the word, but gosh the stuff is so...mellow. I'm so used to the Wild Turkey, which is so much more robust in comparison, almost made me wonder...what is a Sazerac supposed to taste like. While the drink was wonderful I'm not 100% sure I'm sold on it for Sazeracs, though of course in the interest of science it will be test-driven in all our favorite Rye cocktails: Manhattans, Old-Fashioneds, Vieux Carres, de la Luoisianes, etc. I do like the stuff a LOT but my initial impression is that it may work much better in something like a Manhattan. Now one caveat: I typically make my Sazeracs a little different depending on wether it's going to be an aperitif (rarely) or a digestif (often), doubling the simple syrup to a full tsp in the latter case. The Sazerac Rye was so soft (for a rye) that I wondered if less sugar would have been more appropriate. -Andy

It does seem that by logic since you are measuring alcohol by volume and not water by volume then it would be 104* or whatever. Of course this is nothing but a thought experiment on my part, I managed to weasel my way through high school without taking any chemistry (2 years of physics though) and dropped the one college chem class I enrolled in within the first week. heh -Andy