thirtyoneknots

Is the list about great bars or great cocktail bars? One is a subset of the other: not all great bars serve cocktails any more than all great restaraunts serve prime beef and have a tasting menu. Or even tablecloths. Or clean forks. I haven't seen the list so I don't know its parameters but my favorite place in town here has a good selection of whiskeys and beer but would (rightfully) ignore anyone who tried to order a Manhattan. And when I'm there, thats how I want it to be. Being in Texas certainly gives a different set of criteria for quality in a cocktail place than NYC but I'd put the number higher than 50 (without having visited very many of these places at all). The great thing is that even five years ago you'd have been hard pressed to come up with 20 so let's all raise a glass to that.

interesting clone recipe. why was the wine heated in the beginning if the sugar could just be stirred in? i think those orange products are about blending different types of peels to create a particular shade of orange-orientated fruit. green, sweet, & seville. finding something seductive can probably be made easier by tracking down an interesting moscat style wine rather than mastering the orange. producers probably have to change their tricks and rely more on the peels when they scale up immensely. they use ingenuity to make flavors found only in rare dessert wines affordable. for us its probably just cheaper to slightly augment the rare dessert wine. great wine picks to consider in a blend would be capanna's moscadello de montalcino which is epic moscat with far more orangey fruit character than the typical melon. another cool dessert wine that made me think of such a project is donnafugata's passito di panteleria. a small amount in the blend would be killer. ← As an aperitif from Bordeaux, shouldn't the wine base be a Sauv Blanc/Semillon blend and the fortifying spirit be Armagnac? The stuff sort of retains a trace of Semillon varietal character, I think.

Wikipedia tells us that no less an aviator than Billy Mitchell was stationed in Hawaii around 1924-25. I wonder if there is a connection. While (sort of) on the subject of Judge Jr., does anyone know anything about who this guy was and how he came by so many sketchy drink recipes?

Um, Andy, two fingers of WHAT? Johnny Blue? (runs, far and fast) ← Grey Goose, of course

If you are desperate before June I could spot you some should you find yourself in the B/CS area.

I would give up at least two fingers to be able to get away with stuff like that.

One of my proudest moments as a cocktailian came when Mrs. slkinsey ordered a Gimlet at a restaurant and distractedly nodded "sure" at the server's suggestion of a Vodka Gimlet. She was not a cocktailian when we met, but had been drinking my cocktails and at my bars since we began dating. When her Vodka Gimlet arrived and she started drinking it, a puzzled look came across her face. She said, "something's not right with this drink. There's a... I don't know how to put this... there's a... a... certain complexity of flavor that's missing." She may have said other things about the drink as well, but I was too busy wiping tears out of the corner of my eye to notice. ← Sounds like a keeper

Has anyone ever had any success sourcing Bay Rum leaves (Pimenta racemosa)? The essential oil comes up all over the place but I've been searching on and off for years for a source for the leaves, to no avail. Can the oil be subbed, as David Santucci did, or do I need to go to Florida and gather some myself?

Having made some redcurrant syrup from a Perfect Puree sample, I would say that grenadine is probably a closer approximation than Creme de Cassis. Shame that Redcurrant isn't a more popular/common flavor in the States, it really has a unique flavor dimension than grenadine or raspberry syrup.

Glad to hear it all went so well! Fish House Punch is hard to beat. If you can locate Batavia Arrack and Seville oranges, Regent's Punch is perhaps the best contender. Unfortunately those are both relatively scarce ingredients. Still worth trying with substitutions. If you're interested in learning more about punch, definitely recommend you pick up a copy of the aforementioned Imbibe!, it'll have you clamoring for more (which is on the way).

My understanding is that the Julep Strainer was designed to be placed over the ice in a julep for the drinker to consume the drink without having ice get up against their teeth, which would have been very painful for most people at the time. Once the straw became popular this was no longer necessary.

Wow, I got a little misty-eyed watching this. But no stirring? How does the mint flavor stuck at the bottom of the glass get into the drink? ← Well, Juleps are traditionally consumed by straws, so you're drinking the bottom of it first, where the mint is. The only way I differ from this technique when making Juleps at home is to premix the Bourbon and syrup (in a tin or something) before pouring it into the cup of ice. Makes for a more consistent level of sweetness, I think, and obviates the need for stirring, which with a glass that full is a precarious operation.

In my experience, some people who are used to drinking vodka-ish things may be shocked initially at the amount of pure flavor in a drink like this, they are likely to describe it as "strong" in which they don't distinguish strong flavors from alcoholic potency. Usually I find if you can convince someone to tough out one cup of punch, by the end of it they want more. The nice thing about punches is that when made properly they have all the flavor of dark spirits with very little of the 'bite' that one often associates with them, making it a good gateway for neophytes. Next step is a Sidecar, before long they are hooked on Manhattans. Oh well a boy can dream, can't he?

Hope the party goes well, punch always helps. Just so you know, the mild protest was from Mr. Dave Wondrich, aka Splificator, probably the world's foremost expert on old-school drinking. His latest book, Imbibe! brought about a renewed interests in things like Punch and his next book is supposedly going to focus exclusively on Punch. If you haven't gotten a copy of his book (any of them, really), it is a must-have. His opinion on any drink recipe, particularly any recipe older than c. 1900, is not to be taken lightly. That said I would imagine Sailor Jerry's makes an acceptable variation on Fish House Punch, though perhaps lacking somewhat in the richness of texture that comes from Jamaican-styled rums.

how much? start small and add to taste? i assume in place of the confectioners(from the F&W recipe)..? and would i then still need the water, i would guess no...? scott ← Water is a crucial element to punch, The most successful punches in a bowl I've made have had a final abv in the finished product of between 12% and 15%, so I think it's a good idea to get the pocket calculator out and figure out how much water to add. Not enough dilution and it's definitely going to have an interesting (and not necessarily desireable) effect on the party. The rules for punch are different than the rules for cocktails. ← if i use simple syrup (deremera) in place of the confectioners, do i count that water in the calculation? ← You can, though you're really going for a total volume thing. For the record, an ounce of 1:1 syrup contains about 2/3 oz of water, 2:1 syrup about 1/2 oz per oz of syrup. If you're making an actual bowl-sized recipe, many old punch recipes call for the infusion of the sugar with some lemon peel oils, nowadays accomplished by peeling some of the lemons (minimize the amount of white part) and muddling them with the sugar. If you're starting with syrup you already have on hand of course you would probably have to skip this step.

how much? start small and add to taste? i assume in place of the confectioners(from the F&W recipe)..? and would i then still need the water, i would guess no...? scott ← Water is a crucial element to punch, The most successful punches in a bowl I've made have had a final abv in the finished product of between 12% and 15%, so I think it's a good idea to get the pocket calculator out and figure out how much water to add. Not enough dilution and it's definitely going to have an interesting (and not necessarily desireable) effect on the party. The rules for punch are different than the rules for cocktails.

Correct. If you're hammering a nail, even if you hit it a thousand times, if you don't hit it with enough strength, it'll never be driven in. ← So would something in the 120 proof range be sufficient, or does it need to be more like 150?

Dang, had me all excited there.

Agreed, Pussers is a great old-school styled rum, though a little more pricey, at least around here. I've not had great success subbing Apry for Peach Brandy, or vice-versa, peach brandy just has so much intensity it can overwhelm. It is, as Ms. Loeb points out, imperative to use something better than any bottle labelled 'peach schnapps'. The Marie Brizard is not common, even for M-B, but it can be had online for about $25 or less, which will make lots of Fish House Punch. Failing that, DeKuyper Peach Brandy isn't utterly gross, but it certainly has room for improvement. As far as higher proof spirits, I wouldn't go overboard and start adding 151 or anything, but higher proof = more flavor, generally speaking. Of course FHP is plenty flavorful with all 80 proof as well.

I'm not familiar with Wray & Nephew 151, is this something new or is it a misprint for the 126 proof? I'm certainly all ears for overproof Jamaican rums, particularly if they happen to be aged.

Goslings 80 makes perfectly delightful Fish House Punch, I've used it many a time. As for the tea...it probably wouldn't be bad, but I think it may be a bit busy for this.

Unsure wether to collapse into exhaustion or cram my pie-hole with grub after completing a particularly taxing term paper today I instead did what any of us would do: had a drink. The Montana Cocktail from my brand new Barflies and Cocktails from Mud Puddle: 2 dashes anisette (1/2 barspoon anise del mono) 3 dashes orange bitters (Fee/Regan) 1/2 French Vermouth (1 oz old N-P) 1/2 Sloe Gin (1 oz Plymouth Sloe) Shook it for fun and cos the book said to, garnished with a lemon twist. Very interesting combination of flavors, could potentially be worth sticking in the rotation if the sloe gin were tamed a tad, maybe do equal parts sloe gin, dry gin, and vermouth? Kudos to the Mud Puddle people for these gorgeous reproductions! I thought it was neat enough to have the text of the book back in circulation, but to have the whole thing, covers and all, faithfully reproduced is fabulous! Going to have to start saving up for the next round from them. I know Mr. eje is looking for Hugo Ensslin, if they are out there counting votes, I'd say lets also hear from George Kappeler or "The Only William".

Just by looking at this recipe, I'd be very wary with that high of a ratio of peach liqueur. As Mr. Wondrich explains in Imbibe!, the peach brandy called for in the original was more akin to an applejack than a peach schnapps. In other words, a barrel-aged distillate of peaches and their kernels. Modern "peach brandy" is made by flavoring grape brandy with peaches and sweetening it. It's flavor permeates, so go easy: Dr. Wondrich prescribes that the peach liqueur should make up 1/16 of the volume of spirits in the punch. Not sure how dedicated to merriment your guests are, but I've had a group of six go through a full bowl (about 5 quarts + ice block) of fish house punch in under two hours, no problem. Not something to do on a school night, mind you As far as the brands go, I've not had the Landy but if it makes good sidecars I suspect it would make acceptable punch as well. For rum, I really like the Goslings Black Seal for the price, and if you mix equal parts of the Goslings 80 proof and 151, you have a wicked punch rum on your hands. Also to consider, while I've never made it in bowl quantities, the Fish House Punch recipe responds quite nicely to having Laird's Bonded subbed in for the peach brandy (maintaining the original preportions). Should you not have a copy of Jerry Thomas or Imbibe! handy (for shame), the recipe can be found here. Dr. Wondrich's suggestion to halve the sugar is a good one, and part of the water can be replaced with your ice block.

Or you can buy a woodworker's maul and some canvas coin sacks and really go to town. FWIW, my favorite spirit in a julep is Martell Cordon Bleu cognac. Expensive, to be sure, but even at 3 oz per drink it only ("only") costs $10 per, which is less than I'll pay for a simple Manhattan in a bar. And oh, my. ← Cordon Bleu is one of my favorite Cognacs of all time, I can only dream at what a julep with it would be like! If you're still getting it for $80/btl, you're doing well; even the discount chain is asking over a bill for it around here lately. Sounds like a hedonistic Julep, though. I'm sure the Professor would approve. Btw, what rum do you float on top in that case, if any?

For my money, there's no better lesson on how to make a Mint Julep, to say nothing of being the consumate old-fashioned bartender, than by Mr. Chris MacMillian, late of the Library Lounge in New Orleans.The prose is a fabulous touch as well, though you'll note he doesn't make the drink exactly as the article describes, notably leaving the mint in the cup. I find that the most notable departure from received wisdom, pouring the syrup on top of the drink, produces excellent results, as does mixing the syrup and whiskey together. I would say Maker's Mark is not my preferred brand for a julep, but there is of course nothing wrong with it. Lately I've been loving some juleps made with Old Weller 107, robust but elegant whiskey if ever there was one.