evo-lution

Flavour changes. Ask anyone who has been involved in the development stages of a product and ask them about the differences dependent on the abv. Why you struggle with this is beyond me? It's not a viewpoint, it's a matter of fact. Various aromatics will come to the fore dependent on the difference. As another example, have you tried Martin Miller's Original alongside the Westbourne Strength? The difference between the two is startling and their only difference, yep you guessed it, the abv. As for your experiment, some of the greatest minds in the world of Whisky are all in agreement regarding the difference a drop of water can make. I've actually lost count of the number of tastings I've sat in and/or hosted and had this demonstrated.

Post 841 is where this started. - 37.5% abv bitters have a specific flavour - 75% abv bitters have a specific flavour - Adding two dashes of 37.5% bitters does not equate to one dash of the 75% abv bitters for a multitude of reasons. It also has nothing to do with changing the final abv, it's about altering flavour by adding something (bitters) which has a dramatic effect on drinks, especially at two wildly differing abvs. I'm still baffled as to why you're contesting this? It's just bizarre, even moreso when you've admittedly not put it into practice. How is it clear exactly? It's wrong. The two abvs have their own unique flavour. The aromatic compounds are impacted/influenced dependent on the abv, and adding twice as much of the lower abv does not equate to the larger abv. Maybe consider what my job is... I guess you learn something new everyday. As an example, go grab a whisky or gin and add a teardrop of water, then tell me there's no flavour change. Now, put that thought towards something that is flavoured with a variety of botanicals. Are you sure about your logic?

This is actually hilarious. You cannot be serious? The conversation is regarding the difference in flavour between 75% abv bitters and 37.5% abv bitters. If you can't see that there is a difference there's no point in continuing the conversation. Dashing water. As I said up-thread, "This forum can be odd sometimes."

I have no idea why you're telling me this. Did you read above? Which is what I've been saying throughout - with two differing abvs you will have two different tasting products, and 1 dash of 75% abv bitters is not the same flavour you'll get with two dashes of 37.5% bitters, as the two dashes still equate to 37.5% abv. First bolded part - Which I expect the producer considers in the production of their bitters as already said. Second bolded part - I already addressed this with you earlier in this thread so don't think we need to go over it again. The same product at two differing abvs taste differently, it's that simple!

I really don't understand how you're not getting this? You are adding a specific flavour, and that flavour is dependent on the final abv. The flavour of 75% abv bitters will be vastly different to that of 37.5% abv bitters. Two dashes of 37.5% abv bitters will not give you the same flavour as the 75% abv bitters as the two dashes of 37.5% bitters are still 37.5%, or in effect doubled of that particular flavour that the 37.5% abv offers.

Out of curiousity, have you put this in practice? The flavour of the bitters will not be the same across different strengths when you consider the various botanicals that are used in their construction, and that is a consideration of the producer prior to settling on a final abv. One dash of 75% abv bitters is 75% abv, two dashes of 37.5% abv bitters is still 37.5% abv. It doesn't get stronger because there's twice as much, it's still 37.5% abv. And I can assure you there will be a flavour difference between those two strengths...

This forum can be odd sometimes. Forget the 75% / 25% thing, to dilute to bottling strength (whatever that may be) you're going to be adding additional water which has no flavour. So, one of the reasons for the separate water infusion (as I understand it) is so you are adding a flavourful water to the infused spirit, thus not diluting the flavour by so much. In essence you have infused spirit and infused water but it's an unnecessary step as I've mentioned previously, doubly so with the boiling water step added I'm sure you're aware that the flavour of any spirit changes considerably dependent on the abv, and this does have an impact on the drink. In the development of any bottling the abv is a major consideration for this reason..

I get what you're saying but that's working on the presumption you're bottling at around 75%abv...

Who is going to have 100% ethanol?!? If you're macerating in, let's say, 75%abv spirit you'll more than likely want to dilute with water to a lower bottling strength for a number of reasons, namely the flavour difference between aromatic compounds at differing strengths. For the bitters I produce there is a dilution step however it doesn't involve separate water macerations or the boiling water stage which is unnecessary and serves no purpose.

Water will be added to dilute to bottling strength after the original maceration in (high-proof) alcohol.

I intend to pop back in and write some more on what is happening when I have a little more time but, long story short, there is no need to macerate the botanicals separately in water which is essentially creating the problem. I see this (and the botanical/boiling water technique) recommended in various recipes and it isn't worthwhile.

A wee adaptation of The Bumble-Bee Cocktail from Charles H. Baker's South American Gentleman's Companion is really hitting the spot in the cold weather; 50ml / 2oz Kraken Black Spiced Rum 3-4 Dashes Dr. Heather Duncan's Christmas Bitters 25ml / 1oz Fresh lime juice 20ml / 0.75oz Honey syrup Fresh egg white Method: Add egg white, lime juice and honey to mixing glass in that order followed by remaining ingredients, shake without ice for 5 seconds then add ice and shake for a further 10 seconds Glass: Frozen coupette Garnish: Orange zest (spiral) Ice: N/A

Taking inspiration from the Seelbach, this cocktail was created with the purpose of accentuating the flavours we commonly associate with this time of year; fruit, spice, aged spirits and sparkling wine. The perfect showcase for Dr. Heather Duncan's Christmas Bitters. As for the name, that's a story I may share with you over a beverage some time... The Mariner 30ml / 1oz Ron Botran Reserva 15ml / 0.5oz Pierre Ferrand Dry Curacao Ancienne Methode 3 Dashes Dr. Heather Duncan's Christmas Bitters 2 Dashes Peychaud's Bitters Top with 50ml / 2oz Veuve Clicquot Yellow Label Method: Add all ingredients to mixing glass fill with cubed ice and stir for 15-20 seconds. Strain into glass and top with Champagne Glass: Chilled coupette Garnish: Orange zest Ice: N/A

I'd disagree with that, the difference between the two is vast. I can't think of a single drink where it'd work as an adequate substitute without offering a massively different end-product. If it's being used as a preservative it doesn't make a huge amount of difference, it's the amount of sugar that is key to shelf-life. I recommend adding a little brandy or Grand Marnier for a little more depth, and also roasting the almonds prior to blanching them. I've a really good recipe on my website though note it should read 5ml of orange-flower/rose water and not 25ml.

Some of you will have heard of, or seen, Dr. Heather Duncan's Christmas Bitters on my webpage, I know this because a fair few of you have been in touch about them. Other than the first few bottlings that were made in 2009 they've not been available, that was until The Elves returned this month to make a small batch. Yes you did read that right, Elves. Well, we all like to know the story behind the creation of our favourite bottlings right? And we all like cocktails. And music. And bitters of course. Why not take a few minutes to have a read (and a listen) of the story of Dr. Heather Duncan's Christmas Bitters. http://thejerrythomasproject.blogspot.com/2011/11/christmas-bitters-by-heather-duncan-and.html

Yeah, the conversation here picked up from elsewhere (not another forum, honest ) regarding such a bottling.

It's been a long process so far (getting to Boker's proportions now) but I'm seeing an end point within reach. Just a little more patience is all I can ask for!

No problem, Facebook are removing the discussions section of fan pages (for some unknown reason) at the end of October which will speed up my plan to update the recipe's archive of my newest Dr. Adam's webpage. As soon as I get a few hours spare I'll be adding the lot, and a whole load more, across there. I'll be sure to let everyone know here as and when.

Take that back, take that back now! Real Cocktail Cherries Roasted Almond Orgeat Recipe heaven There are further product recipes to come, including some for bitters that aren't just the usual crappy, "cup of bourbon and spices..." that others gift you.

(by way of the freezing method as described above) has worked very well for me though admittedly further experimentation is needed.

Further to my comments above, I have been working on reintroducing Peach Bitters, as things stand I have various prototypes, an abundance of research and I'm currently putting vintage samples through the gas chromotography process. No real timeline as yet but I hope to have something on the market to join my portfolio sooner rather than later. Very excited with how things have developed thus far... Regarding sharing a recipe, not going to happen.

Another way that I recommend is to slow down the infusion, in this case add your base spirit/alcohol to a freezer then add mint leaves to that. I've had a high degree of success though I'm still in experimentational stages with regards ratios.

You need to step foot behind a bar and you'll quickly realise why this will never become a feature in a bar that's serious about drinks.

Intrigued. I would agree that there are maybe a few too many coming onto market (specifically in the US) with huge ranges that seem to be perfected after little-to-no research/development and very little info available regarding their production other than brand name and flavour.

While I'm on I should mention that my bitters webpage was recently updated and is worth exploring. I'll be devoting some time to the recipes section in the coming days and have some more info to add, should anyone have a recipe they'd like to share on the page please let me know.