Jesikka

I disagree. Communities like this one are extremely supportive of people who ignore their weight problems. There are individual examples of weight loss topics and 'blogs' but overall, what this site is great at is as a chronicle of gluttony. This is the ideal place to document it if you spend a week in NYC waking up each morning and going to a couple of different bagel shops to find the one you like best. After breakfast you wander the city for pizza stopping two or three times in the afternoon in the name of science. Throw in some Chinese food while you're at it, and you might as well run up to Harlem to check out the Ghanaian restaurant your cab driver told you about. You then have dinner at a two or three Michelin starred restaurant each night. Nobody is going to post asking if you might have been better off cutting back to only 4,000 calories each day. It's clear that Jason didn't believe that healthy eating needed to be addressed before his doctor told him he had no choice. I'd say the chances are good that a number of other eGullet contributors are in the same situation Jason was in before he spoke to his Doctor. Almost all communities suffer from being mutual admiration societies - you can see it most clearly by looking at the 'Dinner' topic. It really doesn't matter if you post a picture of something that looks delicious or horrible, people will compliment you on it. That isn't inherently a bad thing in that topic but it illustrates that as a community we are supportive of each other more or less no matter what. Blind praise isn't always a good thing - for the person being complemented on the horrible food they cooked it means they'll continue to serve their family gruel. For the person who has a BMI of 75 and is getting rave reviews about the two dozen different hot dogs they documented eating that day it means they focus more on gluttony and less on their health. We as a community really need to think about the impact this blind support has on the other members of the community. Obviously it wouldn't work if this were a hostile environment where everyone trashed each others posts, but there has to be a middle ground where critique and constructive criticism plays a role. ← I have a hard time understanding why a food bulletin board, which is by its nature driven by the things that its posters are interested in talking about, has any responsibility or right whatsoever to critique the eating habits of other people on this site. I disagree with Melkor's earlier comment about JP's hot dog tasting thread of yore that "No person with any regard for their health would eat two dozen hot dogs in a sitting." No person with any regard for their health would eat two dozen hot dogs on a regular basis. I wouldn't be able to do it once, but I don't think it would be my place to judge someone who wanted to. Like many others have expressed about their vacations, last year I went on a 9 day eating orgy in Paris and didn't gain a pound. Should I not post about that experience lest someone try to repeat it with less walking? Should I be posting about the salad greens I ate for lunch or the same old sashimi I ate for dinner this week? Why would anyone care? There's nothing wrong with loving good food, talking about good food and eating good food as you see fit. I might have some responsibility to my loved ones (I would certainly see food education as a part of parenting if I were a mother) to comment on health repercussions of their diet, but I think it would be both presumptuous and obnoxious of me to comment on the gluttony of someone I do not have a personal relationship with. If people on egullet are interested in this topic, they'll post on threads like this one. Obviously my earlier post acknowledged the conflicts of being a foodie and wanting to be healthy. I consider those desires part of my personal attempt to find balance in my life (in all categories). I do what I can to meet these goals- I eat healthy meals during the day and when I'm not at social events, I try to balance high calorie foods with "green things" when I'm out with friends and I use exercise as a way of making up for really indulgent weeks. Maybe I could weigh 10 lbs less if I didn't eat at Ssam Bar regularly, but would it be worthwhile? Would it make sense to travel to Paris or Buenos Aires and not indulge? My own answers to those questions are not always consistent, but I wouldn't want anyone on egullet to judge me for them. I don't think that I would feel differently about these topics if I were overweight and I don't judge anyone on this board for making different decisions. Personally, I think there has long been way too much emphasis in this country on being thin and looking perfect- particularly for women. Perhaps the Fat Pack is part of a swing in the other direction. I read extensively on topics like sustainable agriculture, corn consumption, nutrition studies, etc. and I agree that obesity and diabetes are major health problems in this country. So are eating disorders and perfectionism. I think discussion is great, but I can't support the idea that this site has an imperative or responsibility to monitor the weight or consumption of its participants.

I have a bunch of disparate thoughts, but I'll try to be somewhat clear: The gendering of the article was my first reaction as well. If you notice, all of the women in this article have either written books about losing weight or actively struggled with it. The women in the article were also much closer to a healthy weight to begin with. I don't think there are many women who consume in the sort of gluttonous way described in the article. There is clearly a double standard when it comes to acceptable weight/looks by gender, especially in NY (this seems to be more the case as I enter into my late 20s). Women I know who can "eat whatever they want" choose not to and exercise regularly. Men I know who can "eat whatever they want" do just that and many don't exercise regularly if at all. Some of these men are beginning to have their eating habits catch up with them, but they don't seem particularly deterred by weight gain. In NY, there is definitely a foodie culture of competitive consumption. Being able to finish your plate is seen as some sort of triumph over the poor saps around you who can't do it. I have a smallish appetite (I'm only 5'2" and pretty petite) and I'm constantly being asked if I like my food or being sent out extra courses during tasting menus (because they assume I don't like the food if I can't finish 7 courses). In my group of foodie friends, it's considered distasteful to turn down pork belly or fried ruffle fat. Also, the share plates trend has made it more difficult to try to make healthy personal choices without putting a crimp in my dining companions' style. Oh, and at restaurants where you're a regular they send additional dishes out! I'm definitely still struggling with how to be healthy as a young professional in NY. I run for 30-40 minutes every morning, but I can't really do more exercise than that. My job requires me to sit at my desk for 12+ hours per day and often requires me to have dinner delivered to work; my social life requires drinking and eating out whenever I'm not in the office. In NY, always eating only good quality food won't keep you from eating yourself to death. My solution is basically more of the moderation thing- I tend to try to eat really well during the day at work and to try to have meals with people who understand that offal is not in the food pyramid a couple nights a week. I find that suggesting places where you have to eat reasonably healthy food (sushi is great) is helpful. Oh and like many NYers, I eat almost no packaged food at all. I'm not sure what the solutions are- or even if they're needed for foodies who are not overweight. Still, there's an obvious cultural shift here, which was an interesting but not thoroughly discussed aspect of this article. When did it become acceptable, even pride inducing, to stuff your face?

I guess I'm trying to figure out in my head whether I like this format at this price. What makes it a more worthwhile experience for me than picking and choosing my dishes from the menu at Ssam Bar? Obviously a tasting menu is nice sometimes, but I generally don't have a big enough appetite for it. If there were more interaction with the chefs, rather than a straightforward description of the dish in front of you, it would all make more sense to me and be deserving of a premium. I might be unique in wanting that, though. I don't mean to indicate that I think the price is high- I think it is quite reasonable.

I also had dinner here on Monday (I guess I should have introduced myself on either side you were probably on one side of me and Dave H). The new dessert was really tasty and interesting. I'm not positive I understood the avocado- the creamy fat was nice but the flavor was different than the other elements. I snapped a picture of it but I don't have a way to upload it right now. I'll try to post it before I leave for Argentina on Friday. We also had a great meal. I thought the room was a touch cold and that the pacing is still a bit fast for my taste. I still find myself wishing the chefs were a bit chattier...

I also have a restaurant that I eat in quite often which is well regarded on eGullet (though not the type of place to get reviewed). Even though I eat brunch there weekly and dinner there many weeks, I've never gotten a single comp there. I do get a boistrous hello (I don't think they know my name, but they are certainly friendly and acknowledge that they know me). I often get a copy of one of the magazines I like brought to my table/bar seat at brunch. Obviously I'm not being treated like a stranger. Those are the sorts of perks I "expect" as a regular. Anything else is just gravy.

I am a regular at a number of places where I receive no special treatment. I am also a regular at a couple of places that I went to for years before receiving special treatment. I have also been a regular, had certain people give me special treatment, seen those people move on and still remained a regular. I'd also posit that there is no magic number of visits to achieve regular "status"- sometimes someone remembers you and sometimes they don't.

It sounds like Ko isn't the restaurant for you. One less person pressing the refresh button when I'm trying to get a reservation is fine with me. I'm sure you'll still manage to find somewhere to take your friends.

Which just means that we're in agreement. Hang back, wait it out.

She can do that, as long as she has a week's notice when they're coming in. And if that doesn't work (my guess is it won't be terribly difficult to get reservations on any particular night much less any of the several nights her friends are in town for), she can just take them to Ssam Bar and get substantially similar food. ← I also think it's somewhat relevant to point out that I'm highly unlikely to WANT to do a 7 course tasting menu with wine pairings with my friends from out of town. You're somewhat constrained in your conversation while sitting at a bar and it's a very long meal to have with people you don't see very often. You can't have a large group of people. As Dave H points out, we'll continue to bring our friends to Ssam Bar, which is a better fit for many reasons.

Given that I already have a second reservation (gotten through the miracle of tenacity and basic typing skills) I COULD in fact take you, but Dave H is in line before you. I don't have any best friends from out of town who would have interest in Ko, so no worries there. I do not think it will be particularly difficult to continue getting reservations here shortly. I have never eaten crow, but I imagine it should be perfectly delicious if prepared correctly.

I think that there are plenty of contexts where family relationship is too narrow for nepotism. If my boss hires his daughter's best friend instead of me, is that nepotism? What if he hires his accountant's kid? I'm not suggesting that a higher level of service is nepotism. I didn't suggest that sending out an extra dish is nepotism, nor did I suggest that getting good customers seated quicker is nepotism. I wouldn't even suggest that comping all or part of the bill is nepotism. But to suggest that a restaurant with very few seats should give priority to certain individuals who have been good customers in the context of another business fits my definition of nepotism. I guess I would say that I don't think that sort of treatment is deserved or earned. I'm sure those customers will continue to be treated well. There were plenty of people being comped additional dishes at F&F.

The customers of Ko are the people who are eating there with reservations that they got on the website. Treating them well would mean giving them great service while they're there and perhaps comping a dish or sending something extra out sometimes. Nepotism, which widely translates as "patronage bestowed or favoritism shown due to relationship" is what would happen if all of the regulars at Ssam Bar and Noodle Bar were able to make reservations at Ko more easily/frequently than other people in the general public. Democratic reservations system is how Chang has been describing it, so I picked up on his terminology, which probably doesn't translate perfectly. Regardless, I think everyone understands that he means this to imply "everyone has an equal chance of getting in," as well as, "this is going to be a pain in your ass but we only have 14 seats and we have to regulate it somehow if we want to be open in 6 months." Are you objecting to the fact that they held friends and family and then implemented a reservations system afterwards?

I think Steve is saying that at those places where he chooses to become a regular, he wants V.I.P. treatment in return, and other places do indeed give that to him.He realizes that at all restaurants where he isn't a regular—that is, most of them—he needs to wait in line like everyone else. ← Ok, but there are plenty of restaurants where I am a frequent diner- an unassuming and reasonably quiet (not by personality but with regards to demands) diner and I don't get any VIP treatment at all. Or the extent of my VIP treatment is getting seated more quickly as a walk-in. It's like you're suggesting that because they are so over-the-top generous to their customers at Ssam and NoodleBar that they have an obligation to those people at Ko. I just don't think that's the case because the model isn't as flexible as the others. I'm sure regulars at the other restaurants will be treated spectacularly at Ko and will be able to walk in once the mania dies down. How long did it take for Tailor to be reasonable to get into? I agree completely that they need to get the reservations system running properly, but that is a different issue. Fat Guy seems to be saying that the democratic reservations process in and of itself is the problem.

It's day 2!! They have had the reservations system up for two days. It's too bad that it's glitchy but I'm sure that they are doing everything they can to get that situation worked out as soon as possible. I think it is completely unreasonable to be pissed off that you don't have a reservation at a restaurant by day 2. There is no other restaurant in NY where that would be a guarantee, even to regulars. There are only 12 seats- what do you ideally want them to do? I'm really having trouble understanding the vehemence of this response.

Jesikka, apparently you don't speak for all regulars. Sure, some will follow Chang to the gates of Hell in his grand egalitarian experiment (unless of course it's just a facade), but some are already fed up and it's only day two. ← I would never presume to speak for all regulars. But I don't think there is a need for regulars to panic and presume they'll never be able to try the food at Ko (nor do I really understand the need to rush there immediately- but as you've said I was lucky enough to try the food on preview). In the meantime I'll continue to eat at Ssam Bar and look forward to my next visit to Ko. Dealing with ticketmaster for a hot concert is one thing- the concert ends, the band moves on. This show is playing for the long term, not everyone gets to see the first show. IMHO if you're fed up by day two then you might as well let the people who really want it get in line ahead of you. Do your complaints apply to all tough reservations?

Because the regulars haven't participated in the system. They've been invited to previews. It will be interesting to see how those same regulars feel later on. It has nothing to do with nepotism. ← We're not dead. Some of us went last week and already have plans to go back. There are plenty of regulars, many of whom are my close friends, who did not have the opportunity to participate in previews. We have either actively participated or watched our friends doing so. I think we understand what will go into making a reservation at Ko.

Only if having to participate in the reservations system makes regulars feel alienated, which I don't think most of us feel. We'll be the ones who will hit Ko on a Tuesday night in 2 months, 6 six months or however many years it takes for it to quiet down. Of all the restaurants that I eat in regularly, I could hardly complain about the amazing treatment I've received at the Momofuku restaurants and the obvious regard they have for repeat customers. From a business perspective, it seems like utilizing significant nepotism with seating at Ko would cause major problems expanding the customer base later. They basically need to be full all the time.

You say this as though 50% of the customers at Per Se don't do that. Per Se is not filled with foodies on a nightly basis.

She did forget to mention us!!

Sounds fabulous...couldn't be more excited for tomorrow.

Doesn't anyone care that what they actually said was soubise??

I can't imagine that they wouldn't have used a vacuum sealer if they're actually calling the thing "sous vide." Chang is pretty big on honoring traditional culinary terminology; his entire operation is practically a siren song to the line guys. ← I think she just misheard egg and onion soubise.

As good as the food at Ssam is, I just don't think it's four star food. Not because of tastiness, but because of the level of refinement. I don't think it's trying to be. It's L'Ami Jean to L'Arpege or something. In my mind it's not a question of better but of style, plating, etc. Some of the dishes at Ssam could clearly be reworked as four star dishes and some might fit right into a menu, but it's just not in that style/method overall. It has nothing to do with quality (though it might have a touch to do with haute ingredients). This is like a fight that Nathan and I have about Sripraphai where he argues that it's a three star restaurant because there are three star dishes on it. I have no doubt that Tipmanee can cook three star food, but that doesn't make Sripraphai a three star restaurant. Anyway, this doesn't need to be a star discussion either. I'll post my thoughts on the food after Sunday.

Those all seem like pretty minor variants on the counter-dining permutations currently available in New York (Degustation, Atelier, etc.) and elsewhere (e.g., Minibar in Washington, DC). ← I don't think Degustation is serving haute cuisine. Atelier has a LOT more seats than Ko and a much more traditional service model. I've never managed to make it to Minibar, so I don't know much about it. I never bought into this whole new paradigm thing, so I'm not really speaking to that. I do think that Momofuku style korean influenced haute cuisine of four star level would be speaking in a very different voice than anything we've seen in NY. It remains to be seen whether this is four star food, but I presume that's the aim.

My sense of Ko is that it's there for branding purposes, as well as serving more refined food (which is not necessarily better or worse than Ssam Bar). They have obviously been testing some of those dishes at Ssam Bar over the past 6 months, but as far as I know none have been on the menu and they haven't been offering them universally. If they're serving four star food with a four person staff, no telephone, no tablecloths and 14 individuals sitting on stools, that would seem quite unique to me. I absolutely cannot wait to taste the food on Sunday.