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Vadouvan

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    Lacroix is gone, is Georges next... who takes over

    in Pennsylvania: Dining

    Posted · Edited by Vadouvan (log)

    interesting.

    Boy, I really hope Nafairge is not directing that at anyone. Because I know the people that talk on this thread, and they all checked there egos at the door a long time ago. All of them put their egos aside to make people look better for the sake of the food and the good of the restaurant. They all walk the the walk, most of them I have worked with. They deserve their say, and rightfully so. They Earned It.

    I have no problems with cooks who have opinions about restaurants, as long as they could back it up with the food that they put on the plate.

    If they give as much as 110% everyday, head down, no complaint. They have also earned that right, not to be called a shoe maker.

    2 Things.....Matt...

    I also know by name the guys on these thread, what's funny is we all have each other's cell phone numbers but our work schedules are too crazy to have a normal phone call.

    That being said, none of these people in any way shape or form can be considered a half ass cook or shoemaker.

    I am interpreting Nafairge's quotes as general frustration with some of the behaviour that goes on in this industry and not directed specifically at anyone unless he say's otherwise. On the subject of those who talk the talk and dont walk the walk, it's quite easy to open a restaurant in the city and serve your own version of tuna tartare, a crabcake, an attempt at clever prose to disguise what is essentially a ceasar salad (Romaine salad with parmesan dressing and garlic croutons), the requisite soy-ginger-wasabi axis of evil, something-crusted Ahi-Tuna, redundantly described "Penne-Pasta" like Penne is anything else, finished with a "demiglace" which isnt even a word that should ever be mentioned on a restaurant's menu, a chipotle aioli and the very act which will rightfully earn you crucifixtion in Modena............balsamic glaze.

    It is better not to be involved yet than to have to dumb it down under the pretext of "this is what people want".

    More people than not need to step back from their fancy ingredients and tasting menus and just learn how to use salt, sugar and acid properly.

    matt you know how many people who have worked in no-name places less that 3 years and are now "chef -de-cuisine" or have actual titles printed on thier jackets like they are being confused for astronaughts...

    So before we call people out for not walking the walk, we all should look in the mirror.

    Yes there are som any line cooks who say they go to places and it sucked but guess what ?

    Until they go home to reflect upon the work they did today and read a book about food instead of hanging out at Good Dog, drinking and chain smoking....I dont see the passion.

    Lacroix is gone, is Georges next... who takes over

    in Pennsylvania: Dining

    Posted

    My last three fine dining experiences, two at three star restaurants in France, and one in NYC, were wonderful. Especially wonderful because in a true fine dining establishment one doesn't find the "pretentious collareral BS" that both you and I object to. It has been my experience that the pretentious restaurants are second tier wannabe's - the more the pretension the less the skills of the kitchen. Not always, perhaps, but more times than not.

    I hope true fine dining, with flower budgets that exceed my annual income, formal dress codes and fish spoons never disappears from Philadelphia, or the world. Meals at such places, at least for one of my middle class means, are rare indulgences to be truly savored. Not just the cuisine and the ambience, but the service. Especially the service. The three fine dining meals I mentioned above had a style of service singular to that level of restaurant.

    Now the confession - those three meals all occured 2 - 3 years ago. But over the past couple of years I have still dined very well, whether at one our BYO's or huffing up two steep flights of stairs in West Philadelphia. Very well indeed. And the casualness of those meals was savored too. But once or twice a year I'd still like to put on my best suit, search out an unstained necktie, polish up my American Express card and dine at a true, formal, starched white linen world class restaurant.

    So Holly, will we be seeing fish spoon stains soon as opposed to grease stains ? :wink:

    Lacroix is gone, is Georges next... who takes over

    in Pennsylvania: Dining

    Posted

    If we lose our fine dining scene in Phila I believe we would be moving backwards as a culinary destination and a world class city.

    Let me explain further, I think what we are saying when we say fine dining is dying (as I hope it does) is that the Ultra formal places with white tablecloths, name like "Le_XXXX", "La-xxx" or "Chez_xxxx" are done. Silly requirements like formal dress codes, expenditure on flower bouquets, fish spoons, 3 hr dinners, "Chef prefers that you eat your steak med rare" and all the other pretentious collateral BS that simply increases the cost of the experience without added value other than semantics....is dead.

    Currently in Philadelphia, while I agree that it's a great city, it isnt a world class dining destination.

    We have Starr,BYOB's and very little in between.

    I think what MatthewJ wants is mid-tier restaurants with liquor that are able to use the liquor revenue percentages to diminish food cost so more exciting dishes can be served cheaper to a wider audience.

    Although it seems majority of people are rabid for anything BYO regardless of how good it actually is, trust me selling blue and pink drinks to women under 30 greatly reduces the cost of Foiegras, Lobsters and kampachi.

    .......and I am not being sexist, you want a busy bar ?

    get women to the bar, everyone else shows up with thier wallets in tow.

    Lacroix is gone, is Georges next... who takes over

    in Pennsylvania: Dining

    Posted

    Heavy lies the head that wear's the crown.

    I certainly have no interest in being in that position.

    Looks like Striped bass chef is taking the reigns and frankly in my opinion, he can knock himself out.

    I have zero interest

    I agree fine dining with all the frou frou BS is dead.

    People want smart creative delicious food with flexibility.

    Not to say we should cater to what the public wants....

    Lacroix is gone, is Georges next... who takes over

    in Pennsylvania: Dining

    Posted

    The real issue is whether the hotel management/Food and Beverage directors will not Alienate all the people from leaving.

    Murkury is right, think of it Matt, the Lacroix I remember no longer has any of the solid people who were there in the beginning, The 20/21 crew Maslowski et al........Sean at Bistro du Vent, Jared B., Brinn.....You.........really straight up good cooks.

    Its going to hinge on if the cooks believe in the new chef.

    Any young chef would kill to have that kind of stage to show his or her talents but then again the hotel reponsibilities like lunch and brunch kill you and your passion.

    We shall see what happens.........but I hold out hope.

    Everytime I hear Matt Levin's name, I think of "Truffle juice ice cubes" from Laban's review.

    He loved Moonlight in New Hope and declared him a rising star.

    I never got to make it there because the entire dining room was painted white down to the last detail and I felt like I would look like Yoda from star wars at a sorority tea party.

    Lacroix is gone, is Georges next... who takes over

    in Pennsylvania: Dining

    Posted · Edited by Vadouvan (log)

    Reactions to the coming events very soon... questions comments observations....?

    who has got the (Jamba) Juice?

    So MatthewJ is Good cop and i am slightly Jaded cop...... :smile:

    So the scoop is JML (The man) is history and actually retired now.

    BUT............

    The restaurant retains his name in some kind of Licensing deal.

    It's been an age old quandry whether a business that is no longer affiliated with the creative personality it was associated with would do as well or would still be respected in the abscence of the aforementioned "creative personality".

    Certainly while the company "Gianni Versace" still makes Billions years after Gianni....."the Man" was blown away by Andrew Cunanan in florida........ thanks to the managerial and creative prowess of Donatella......i'm afraid it isnt quite the same in the restaurant BIZ.

    Generally, restaurants that have names of people who arent involved in creating the food tend to get mixed results as far as public perception and expectation.

    Remember "MIX" Ducasse/Chodorow/Psaltis debacle

    the non Roy Yamaguchi involved OUTBACK steakhouse "ROYS"......or closer to home the post Tony Clark..."Tony Clarks".

    That's America, seriously if I could sell my name, buy a Ferrari, a pimping condo ...and not have to work...I would be first in line.

    In my opinion, it seems almost better to just rename the restaurant and start afresh than to window dress it with some "licensing/consulting deal".

    Uninvolved licensing deals have proven themselves to be as effective as strategically re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.

    Dont get me wrong.....there are excellent reasons to keep the name "Lacroix" after Jean marie is gone.

    1. His prestige is undisputed and deeply respected.

    2. you save money on stationery,china,book matches ect ect.

    WHat's left to see is if the public buys it.......

    People still bought Yves saint Laurent stuff even though karl Lagerfeld was designing it but his name was equally presitigious.

    BMW makes Mini coopers.

    Honda owns Acura

    Toyota owns lexus and lots of people who refuse to buy japanese products drive Lexi..(plural of lexus)

    So people are apparently cool with window dresssing...... :unsure:

    and On and on.....

    Matt levin's food and Jean Marie's food is like having keith Haring take over Cezanne's studio...

    BUT

    At the end of the day, if the food tastes good, I hope that is all that matters.

    I really hope so.

    Out of the Blue

    in Pennsylvania: Dining

    Posted

    I do not think Marigold could sustain a steady stream of clients, without liquor revenue

    Brother Mathew, you know I have all the respect in the world for you.

    How's it going in Hotlanta ? :raz:

    The interesting thing about the BYOB thing in philly is ther is so much public acrimony against the LCB that people will in fact use the fact that a place is BYO as primary and secondary criteria for choosing it. The only thing you have to do is get "buzz".

    OUT OF THE BLUE....had no buzz.

    No pedigree chef, unexciting food and a cliched menu.

    Seriously, what the heck is a "farrotto".

    apparently risotto made with farro......... :smile:

    Though I am not at liberty to divulge, the new potential operators(dont ask or PM me) are clever, smart , talented, Laban likes them and I think smart enough to learn from the mistakes of previous operators so we may all be disproven.

    There are no such things as bad locations, just bad food.....or not great food.

    Marigold in its first incarnation with Steve cook was excellent, the brunch for those who were lucky enough to go was also the best in the city in my opinion without any of the 4 seasons or lacroix BS.

    Just solid good flavors for moderate prices.

    If we can all cart our asses (can you say ass on e gullet ?) all the way to Gayle and Ansill in the Negev, this should be a no-brainer.

    Out of the Blue

    in Pennsylvania: Dining

    Posted

    The rent is just too damned high for that postage stamp sized property. It's really that simple. I suspect the only hope for anyone other than a restaurant-fronting-a-crack-dealership is to buy the bricks from the present owner. But why would they sell? As absurd as the rent is there always seems to be another sucker willing to pay it. So even if the building lies fallow for months in between tenants, the landlord has already cashed the checks and has a nice cushion in their account.

    I Have to say I agree with the Loeb.

    The Place is a great location.

    There can be a sucessful operation there with longevity.

    It does however require a delicate balance in which all players have to make a sacrifice.

    I remember and old chinese proverb......

    "If everyone is greedy,Nobody makes money"

    That includes restaurant owner,landlord, purveyors.

    The answer to the potential success of this space ia quite simple if you ask Microsoft Excel.

    Unless in fact the rent is lowered, it puts pressure on the principals to make money.

    The absolute best scenario I could come up with is that the landlord makes a deal with the operators, lowers the rent to $2500 and actually becomes an equity investor in the restaurant taking a certain negotiated percentage of the post tax revenue based on volume of business.

    It costs him nothing.

    The only difference is rather that getting your ransom up front, you get it at the end of the year.

    But you have a much more solid certainty of getting it for multiple years.

    In the end, I bet he makes more money.

    "If everyone is greedy, nobody makes money"

    Out of the Blue

    in Pennsylvania: Dining

    Posted

    It's a great Location but it's also a catch 22.

    In one sense it's a fully equipped restaurant and the landlord can charge whatever he wants....and he is...reportedly over $5k but on the other hand, the long term success (more than 18 months) of anything that opens there is in question unless there are only two owners and preferable husband and wife....and high volume 2.5X seatings everyday with a $58 at least check average and no more than 28% food cost............which means you cant cook anything really exciting based on volume.

    It would be a great place for an Italian BYO that serves simple delicious lunch and dinner.

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