Simon_S

I see the menus have been updated on Thornton's website to reflect the new regime. Interestingly, the lunch menu is still given as €30/€40 for 2/3 courses, and this article in the Sunday Business Post (dated 11 Feb) says the same. I wonder... I'm hoping to pop in for canapes this evening, so I'll check it out. Si

How about this one: A sardine and a mini-pretzel. Si

Link to that AA Gill article is here for what it's worth. You'll see I slightly misquoted Mr. Gill, but the gist is the same. Si

In a recent Sunday Times, AA Gill said that GR @ The London was inferior to *all* restaurants bearing the Ramsay name in the UK. Si

Welcome to the forum Mr. K. Having read your report, I almost feel like I was there... Si

This isn't "Monsters, Inc" is it? Si

You won't accept a guy's tongue in your mouth, but you're going to eat that? Can I eat? I dunno, give it a try. The Breakfast Club. Si

65. Is it Jabba the Hut in "Return of the Jedi"? 68. Back to the Future. Just give me something without sugar. Si

I didn't mean to sound defensive, although I see what you mean on re-reading my post. I get a bee in my bonnet about the whole pricing issue because people (and I'm not accusing anyone here) look at the bottom line and simply think "crazy", when in reality I think what's crazy is paying €28 for a poor steak sandwich in a pub. Dublin is full of silly prices at the moment (not just food) and I don't really think Thornton's is engaged in rampant profiteering. Indeed, for what you get, I consider Thornton's to be far better value than most mid-range restaurants, but I'm funny like that. I think comparisons with Paris and other capitals, while tempting, are not valid for various reasons, including the economies of scale you mentioned. Still, Thornton's is in a pretty prime location, and I doubt it comes cheap. Isn't Grafton Street one of the most expensive retail spaces in the world? In any case, I won't belabour the point. Of course, I don't disagree that you can eat better, cheaper elsewhere. The only problem is, I don't live elsewhere. One more thing. Having eaten at a recently elevated one star in France while skiing, I came to the conclusion that a star is much harder to come by over here than over there. If what I ate there is one-star food, then Thornton's is definitely a solid 2 at the moment. I've only eaten at 1 starred restaurant in Paris (so far!) and that was the 1* L'Angle du Faubourg. Again, Thornton's is far ahead of that restaurant in my opinion. Unfortunately, my only 3* experience in France was at Bocuse, which isn't representative (I hope). Amen! Si

Hmm, it's interesting that the question of filling restaurants should come up here. A colleague told me this morning that they rang Thornton's yesterday and booked a table for Saturday week. They had tried to book Chapter One but were told all Saturdays are booked up until July, and hence they've closed their Saturday bookings for the moment. It got me thinking about the whole question of restaurant popularity, pricing, Michelin and what Irish people are looking for in general. I read the thread you mentioned, Corinna, and it got me thinking some more. Please excuse my ramblings to follow. I have to throw my hands up off the bat and say that, 9 times out of 10, I don't understand why people go to the restaurants they go to. Why the "Little Venices" of this city are so popular is beyond me. But having spoken to various friends/colleagues etc, I'm starting to understand why people *don't* go to some of the high-end restaurants, and I don't think it's sticker-shock. At the risk of unfairly denigrating my fellow countrypersons with generalisations, Ireland's Celtic Tiger Cubs are terrified of formality. They're put off by the idea of fancy food being served at places that are no craic. They think that they wouldn't enjoy the food even if they tasted it. They would sooner spend 45 Euro on a steak in Shanahan's (and that's before they even order a spud!) than a 45 Euro main course at Thornton's. Dropping 200 Euro on dinner isn't the problem, it's the formal restaurant experience. Chapter One, partly correctly, is seen as somewhere that gives you well-cooked but not too fancy food with an Irish-style service. None of that French snootiness, none of that hushed awe. No, good food in relaxed surroundings is the order of the day. I'm convinced that's why it's so popular. Of course, the food is good as well, but good enough to be booked out until July? Strangely, I don't find the restaurant all that relaxed either, but that's the reputation, so... Thornton's, by contrast, has a reputation for fancy, serious, Frenchy food, hushed room, somewhere your average man-on-the-street wouldn't feel comfortable. I think they're trying to address that, while staying within the confines of the high-end, Michelin thing, and I think they're doing a good job. It's not anything like as imposing as people think there, and maybe the canape bar, coupled with the flexibility of the new menu, will start to convince punters of that. Focusing on the €180 menu is a mistake, I think, that's not what this restaurant is going to be about. Nonetheless, I agree that the increase in lunch prices is an error. I wonder will that be changed, or will they reinstate the 2-course option? Apparently, they'll be offering low-calorie lunch options, so it seems bizarre to force 3 courses in the process. Time will tell. Mint, meanwhile, has thusfar managed to avoid the stuffy reputation, and I think that's partly *because* of the room. As tight as the room is, I firmly believe that many people are instantly made to feel *more* comfortable by it, not less. There's no sense of imposing, Michelin fanciness when you walk in. You can talk and laugh and have the craic while you tuck into top-notch food. The Ranelagh location helps too. The only blot on this horizon is the word spreading that they serve "modern foamy stuff", which once again terrifies your average Irish diner. Still, I don't think McGrath's dinner menu is especially pricey right now. What is it, €65 for 3 courses? In Dublin, that seems like good value, and that seems a notch below Michelin 1* pricing. Still, I share your fears that he'll be carried out on a stretcher! Ultimately, I'm not sure that there are sufficient numbers of "gastronomes" in Dublin to keep a plethora of Michelin-starred restaurants in business purely on the basis of food. At some point, you're depending on people who may not be "into" food, but aren't afraid to pay up for a meal. To do that, you have to get them in the door and persuade them that it doesn't require special skills to eat at your restaurant, that it's not necessary to be a "foodie". People need to be persuaded to just sit back, relax, eat and enjoy. I'm not saying that we're price insensitive here, but I think it's not *quite* as high a consideration as you might find in other markets. People will pay the money, you've just got to get the image right. All of the above is, of course, my humble opinion!! Si

Absolutely, and trust me, it hasn't improved much since you left! Sorry for teaching grandma to suck eggs, I didn't realise you were a fellow former D8er. You know, I was thinking the other day that when I was doing college exams and first discovered Thornton's while on one of my head-clearing walks (in Portobello at the time), I was shocked, and I mean SHOCKED, when I saw the surprise menu was 45 Irish pounds. I couldn't believe that anyone would pay that for a meal. That wasn't even all that long ago... Si

First things first -- Dublin is an expensive place. Comparing similar restaurants across the continent doesn't really make sense, in my opinion. Property, etc. costs more here, that's just the way it is. So, yes, I could eat a less expensive meal in other places, but the comparison isn't easy to make. Also, as I pointed out, this is *the* most expensive way to eat at this restaurant. Lunch is available for €50-€60 for 3 courses, and the 8-course taster can be had for €125, or a 5-course taster for €85. For my money, the courses were very well balanced in terms of size, and a good progression in terms of flavour. I left full and sated, but not painfully so. There is no wine pairing available. After consultation the sommelier chose a St. Aubin and a Rhone, neither of which I noted, both of which were very good selections to pair with the menu. Si ETA: I see Hazel got there before me!

Some friends managed to eat there after an organ recital last summer, and they just turned up without reservatiosn. It was, however, the night of the World Cup Final... Si

I hope I'm right when I say that everything was €3.50. I had only the quickest look at the menu which was a long list, and I'm confident that it said €3.50 at the top of the page and then no prices after each listing. As regards the type of food on offer, Guinea fowl caught my eye at one point. Early days I guess, I'll be really interested to see what sort of clientele they eventually attract. Will your average "man-on-the-street" pop in for a nibble and a drink? Will it be mainly people who eat at Thornton's occasionally and just want some of that ambiance prior to an evening out? Will people actually go and make a night of it there if they're not eating at the restaurant? Questions questions! A tricky one, this. I don't think he deserves to be a 1*, and I think that if he still had the 2, nobody would *really* raise an eyebrow if the most expensive menu was €180. In a sense, doing all 14 courses might be considered an unnecessary extravagance, and I would imagine the normal food order is a lot less. For example, 8 of those courses for €125 seems like "good" value. So yes, it's undoubtedly expensive, but assuming it doesn't creep up (for example if the second star is taken out of cold storage) then I think it's just about okay. Well, just about okay for the general level of expense in Dublin as it currently stands...! Certainly the range of ingredients and depth of cooking eased the pain a little. Hazel's answered this one already, but one thing that was interesting was the table next to us (regulars, according to Garret) were celebrating a 40th birthday and drinking some very serious wine (a 1967 something or other was opened with a degree of ceremony at one point). I was surprised that Kevin didn't come out to say hello to that table at the end of the meal. It could very well be that he's leaving FOH to look after FOH. That may be a conscious decision, who knows. Hazel put it well. My sense during the meal was that Thornton's was back at the top level of cooking, but it's a very different experience to Mint. Thornton's, while not exactly classical, is a bit more mainstream, and given my current tastes, I like the added frisson of excitement at Mint. I can assure you, many would disagree entirely and I wouldn't be able to argue in any absolute sense. Is Thornton's a better restaurant? Probably. Which do I prefer? Probably Mint. Si

Thanks for the advice, DutchMuse! Si

What about Yves Camdeborde's place at le Comptoir? I haven't eaten there myself, but it's been well-reviewed here in the past, and is only a veritable stone's throw from St. Sulpice. Si

Since there have been some small screen references, this isn't Malcolm in the Middle is it? Si

Hazel and I ate at the "new look" Thornton's on Saturday night, hot on the heels of our successful lunch there just before Christmas, and I'm glad to be able to report that this trip was even more successful. In fact, signs were already good when I rang to confirm last Thursday. Having booked this dinner at the end of our last meal, I was impressed when the restaurant manager remembered me on the phone, and when I asked if the 13 course taster would be available, he said "Ah yes, you had the Surprise Menu last time". I'm a sucker for the personal touch, so I liked this! He assured me that the menu would be available, but "with a few changes to before"... On arrival we were warmly greeted, and at our request, shown the new canape area before going to our table. It's quite nicely done with an attractive bar and lots of small tables fairly closely spaced. Lighting is low and the feeling is intimate, but the big round "window" into the kitchen is still there so I imagine there are some entertaining sights to be seen during service. It has to be said, without people in it it was a little hard to tell what the vibe will be like, but it looked promising to me. I perused the canape menu, and sure enough, they're all €3.50 and the descriptions looked tasty. The barman explained that they're quite small, but I didn't get to see any in the flesh. In any case, I'll be back to sample in due course. So from there we went to the main dining room which is much more to my taste now. It feels elegant, with good lighting and artwork, and the old "barrier" has been removed to open up the room. The impression I had was of more intimacy, and there's something about the acoustics that really seemed to promote a nice buzz. There's none of that hushed cathedral-esque feel that sometimes afflicts restaurants such as this. So, to my eyes the refurb is a success. Hazel was less sure about the curtains, but I didn't have any problems with them. I am, however, a bloke. Right then, on to the food. The layout of the menu has changed significantly. There is no a la carte as such any more. Instead, there's a set menu with fairly limited choices that I totally ignored (I *think* I'm right in saying you can choose to eat 2 or 3 courses, but don't quote me on that), and then there are 13 courses listed in the taster menu section. But here's the kicker: you can choose 5 of them, 8 of them, or 14 of them (one of which is a surprise) for various price levels. My memory is dodgy again here, but I think it was €85, €125 and €180 respectively. Being pigs, we opted for 14 courses. We certainly didn't leave hungry!! I forgot to ask for a copy of everything that we ate before I left (not least because it was so late) but I remember Seabass, scallops with black truffles, goose foie gras, bacon and cabbage terrine, dublin bay prawns (with truffle sabayon?) nettle sorbet with Bombay Sapphire gin, Moularde duck, Woodcock, cashel blue cheese, warm valrhona chocolate, lemon tart, hazelnut with coffee. That's only 12, so I haven't remembered everything, but you get the idea. It was an extensive range of food and flavours. Details aside, and I'm amazed to hear myself say this, but there wasn't a weak course all night. Everything was beautifully cooked, expertly seasoned, attractively plated, and I honestly enjoyed every last morsel. Hazel was not so enamoured with the bacon and cabbage terrine, feeling the bacon part was fairly pedestrian, and was slightly underwhelmed with the prawns. Maybe I was just in an exceptionally good mood, but I didn't have any such complaints. Compared to previous visits, where things were either over fussy or somewhat dull, I thought all the stops were pulled out on Saturday and the sense of progression over the 14 courses was wonderful. A dessert lover might have expected a little more, I don't know, but to be honest I'm not the man to discuss that as I always focus more on the savouries. Nonetheless, I enjoyed what I had. One other area that had bothered me on earlier visits was the service, which at times had seemed lax and below the level I'd expect at a restaurant of this calibre. Last night everything ran extremely smoothly, everyone knew what they were doing, and the room felt calm with Garret (the restaurant manager) always in control. That this was achieved with real warmth and friendliness is an added bonus. So, lest this sound like a rave review I'm trying to think of something to complain about, but I'm coming up short. Thornton's is firing on all cylinders at the moment, and I have no reason to doubt that it will continue to do so. Si

Question: if you were in NY for a very limited period, and dinner at EMP just didn't seem to fit into the itinerary, would you visit EMP for Sunday brunch or just wait for dinner on a future visit? Si

Spot on! (I had PM'd Toliver the answer cos I knew I wouldn't be logging in over the weekend). Si

Right, a clue for 15: 15. Stew, no ketchup. CLUE: This stew can stand on its own feet Si

I think you're misunderstanding the thrust of this. It's just th'oul Cockney rhyming slang. I don't think there's any real malice intended. Si

that can't be right can it? ← Septic tank = Yank

Nope, but I'm loving the nerdiness of this guess!! The film in question is a good bit older than the Christopher Reeve/Margot Kidder Superman. It's probably closer in vintage to George Reeves' Superman TV show. The clue as it stands might be a little obscure. I'll give another clue if there's no move by the end of the (European) workday. Si

While I think the policy of no food at the bar is fair enough and the restaurant is perfectly entitled to make this decision, what would particularly grate for me is the fact that he was given time to settle at the bar, order a drink and was only then told that there had been a policy change for the evening. If I walked in and was told upfront that food was not being served at the bar then I'd feel a little better about it. I wonder was this part of the irritation? Si