Sneakeater

Allen & Delanacey is dark inside -- but very very nice.

You might find Double Crown's menu concept to be interesting, but don't expect the food to be very good. (Or the cocktails, for that matter.) Nice room, though.

Strongly agree.

I'm thinking more about the three stars.

The problem is that the Michelin NYC guide's ratings are irreconcilable with the Michelin criteria used elsewhere. That's a big problem with the book. I can't help but think that a European tourist used to the European Michelin guides would find their NYC ratings very puzzling.

No better value than the Jean Georges lunch exists.

Oops...duh. There goes my credibility:) Sorry, guys. Apologies to both of you for my sloppy reporting...there seems to be a theme going on here. ← You don't have to apologize to me. I got a compliment. It's oakapple you have to worry about.

I just want to point out that oakapple and I are in fact two different people.

I think that any restaurant that is only good with the tasting menu, and is not good a la carte, is unworthy of respect.

THAT will cause some hubub.

Kathryn: you really owe it to yourself to try the lamb's brains.

I heard an explanation second hand. I don't know if it's convincing. (What I mean is, it's obvious that it's dumb; the question is whether it was sincere.) The explanation is this (or something like it): There was a decision to rejigger the menu. They thought the best way to train the kitchen was to start with a limited menu and then branch out, rather than throwing the staff in at the deep end.

While flumferring around the web trying to remind myself of the name of the original Odeon chef (it's Patrick Clark) (RIP), I came across this 2005 article from the International Herald Tribune (I can only assume they sourced it from the New York Times) about Odeon's importance. I want to be careful not to overclaim here. As oakapple correctly points out, it was Montrachet a few years later that established Tribeca as a "fine dining" destination for people from Uptown. But it was Odeon that really introduced "fine dining" to that neighborhood, even if it was never the Citywide destination that Montrachet became. Within its demographic (which I was very much a part of), Odeon was very much a striking and important new thing. (I had my first Duck en Salmi there!) It's also hard to remember how much better the food at Odeon was initially, under the late Patrick Clark, than it has been at any time since. Now, comparisons between Odeon and Balthazar seem ludicrous. But Balthazar wouldn't have wiped out Odeon as it was in the old days. (Of course, Balthazar has stayed consistently good, whereas Odeon hasn't.)

But don't the Momofuku places seem to do it more in the open?

I was going to add that Balthazar's heyday continues even to the present.

I was drinking Improved Holland Gin Cocktails throughout the debate last night. It certainly made life better. Thanks, Splificator!

The other part of the "Momofuku Experience" is that the cooking seems improvisatory. You really get the feeling of a bunch of cooks sitting around in the kitchen riffing on what they think would taste good. And willing to try just about anything.

I don't know how to explain why, but as someone who was most certainly around at the time, to me, Odeon in its heyday seemed more important (whatever that means) than Balthazar in its heyday.

They have it at Astor in NYC.

Right. This isn't some cynical ripoff. They believe in what they're doing. They're just . . . wrong. Or, to be more fair, wrong for serious cocktailists.

Read the thread. There are PLENTY of places mentioned that aren't Chinese and mediocre Cuban cafeteria chains, or Terriyaki Boy or Korean fried chicken. (Of course you're right that it's very location-dependent.) (And that Midtown Lunch is a great resource. But that's my point. Most of what's on Midtown Lunch isn't street food.)

Yeah, right. (Some fucking GREAT street food in Oaxaca, I might add.)

For the record, I disagree with your use of "street food." There are PLENTY of places mentioned in this thread where you can sit down and eat for $15 or less. As I've said, I imagine most of us do it every day.

Pax is a chain of deli/lunch spots. (Not "deli" in the traditional New York/Jewish sense.) The best that can be said is that they're clean and not sickening.

Your friends are wimps. CaliPoutine should know that the (very good) Kati Roll has other locations throughout the City (or at least one other location in Midtown). I'd recommend doing a web search to find them: it's a good cheap lunch.