Sneakeater

I never can understand these proposed boycotts of expensive items. If all the people who can't afford something agree not to buy it, it's not going to have much affect on price.

In the unlikely event you're not kidding, surely you understand that you don't get to define luxury goods as necessities just because you like them a lot.

Just for the record, that's all I mean. 5:30 is just too early for dinner, and although as a general matter I love to eat late, I can't do multi-course tasting menu on their late shift.

Fat Guy is right: the Bar at the Modern is right up there with Bouley Upstairs as one of the great NYC dining values. What a great thing to have available.

I think the only grape in Vermentino is Vermentino.

I'm with robyn. I'm a congenial guy, and I'm nice to the staff cuz it's my nature. But I don't want to make being nice to the staff the focus of my experience when I'm dining out. I want to make my dining companion, and the food -- by which I mean my appreciation of the food -- the focus. If I have to get there early, before any other customers are there, and take pictures of the empty restaurant to get treated well . . . well, I'm not going back (and if I know it in advance, I'm not going there at all). I live in New York and I've never eaten at Per Se. Because I'm simply unwilling to do it on the terms they impose on people like me, who aren't known to them. You can say it's my loss. But there are lots of good places to eat, and my life is such that I really have to do it at my convenience.

Yeah. I mean, I'm probably part Ukranian or something, but who wouldn't like what salo sounds like.

None that I know of.

Very true. But . . . Teodora -- Emilia-Romagna Via Emilia -- Emilia-Romagna Lupa -- Roman Lattanzi -- Roman Al Di La -- Venetian Aliseo -- Marchese Rocco's Calamari -- Calabrian Fernando's -- Sicilian De Rosa (probably no longer open) -- Campanian The Sicilian place that recently closed on Fourth Ave. I could go on, but I'm too out of it.

Nationally, certainly here in New York (am I allowed to type those two words on this board?) many (not nearly all, of course) Italian restaurants identify themselves regionally. French, too.

A couple of months ago, I decided I had to have coq au vin for dinner. I walked into db Bistro (after 8), sat down at the bar, and there it was. (They brought me a boef en gelee as an amuse -- who knew life could be that good?) As oakapple said, it was flawless. It's just so good to get your itches scratched instantaneously.

As far as I'm concerned, Chicago-style deep dish pizza. I don't like it, I'm tired of trying to like it, and I wish they wouldn't call it pizza.

You know, I've sort of stumbled into that place (Spade's) a few times, and I'm almost always suprised at how much better it is than I'd expect. It's not a place to get really excited about (like the Wu Liang Ye branch a few blocks away), but it's far far better than just a neighborhood Chinese place.

I have to agree that you can't ingore the wine program.

Wait a minute. I'm having a hard time understanding how it helps me for my date to be impressed with your house and your cooking.

True. I've also found rich's place an excellent spot to take dates. Although Staten Island is a bit inconvenient.

DATE Room 4 Dessert FRIENDS Uovo

Luckylies -- We live to serve. This post helped me clarify what I think about Landmarc. I think it shows why Landmarc tends to be somewhat overrated, at least around here. It may be that there should be places like this on every corner. It may be that we need more places that serve solid, dependable, well-executed food. But that doesn't mean that, when one finally comes along, we should overvalue it because of its unfortunate rarity. What I'm trying to say is that Landmarc is the kind of place we should be able to take for granted. Just because there aren't enough of them around doesn't turn Landmarc into a destination place. It's great (I mean really great) if you're in the neighborhood, and even worth arranging your affairs so that you're near it around mealtime. But for all the talk upthread about the subway's making New York (or at least Manhattan -- where I don't live) "one neighborhood" for purposes of eating out, I don't think I'd travel just to eat at Landmarc (or Blue Ribbon, or Schiller's, or any of the regrettably few other places like it). The point of these places is that they're not "special." Their comparative (and regrettable) rarity doesn't make them so. So I guess I'm saying that it's easy to undervalue a place like this -- but it's easy to overvalue it, too.

For the record, I've taken a date to Cafe Gray. She loved it. (In fact, she really loved it: "I can't believe I'm eating Gray Kunz food!" "This risotto is fantastic!") (Of course she was exclaiming. How else was I going to hear her over the din?). I was irritated as usual (but the food was fabulous).

Or, for that matter, The Orchard is hardly one of my favorite restaurants. But it's a very nice, stylish but pleasant room (lowkey modern) -- with very flattering lighting. Moreover, the furnishings, although very well-thought-out, are obviously not lux. Nor is the menu. And (at least as of when I ate there shortly after it opened) they didn't have a wine list, so you could bring your own. In other words, it's a place that's very nice, and very tasteful, but manifestly isn't very expensive. Exactly the kind of vibe you often want for a first date. But not necessarily somewhere I'd tell people to go to otherwise.

I'm not sure I would take listing here as an accolade. I genuinely like Annisa, so no reflection on that. But take Mas. I have serious reservations about Mas as a restaurant. I wouldn't go there with friends. But I think it's a good place to take dates, because the room is so nice and, in a low-key way, sexy, and the food is unchallenging while also at least superficially interesting. Meaning, I guess, that at least to me, a favorite "date" spot isn't necessarily a favorite restaurant.

There used to be a "Wisconsin cuisine" restaurant in Greenwich Village in New York City, run by the couple who ran (and still run) the more famous restaurant Home. I really miss it.

Just stumbled upon this thread. Interesting distinction. Maybe worth revisiting in light of the all the new places that have sprung up since then (which is not to say that none of the places listed below existed in 2002). DATES Mas Annisa The Orchard FRIENDS Landmarc Deborah Lupa

I stumbled across this wine -- Montenidoli Vernaccia di Carato -- in a restaurant. It was so unexpectedly excellent that I wanted to flag it here. To say this was the best Vernaccia I've ever had would be to understate how (suprisingly) excellent it was. In my experience, Vernaccia is nothing more than a (very good) quaffing wine. This is different. This has the concentration and the depth to make it the kind of wine you pay attention to. Almost uniquely among Vernaccias, this wine is oaked. If you were to ask me, I'd say my general preference for white wines goes to steel over oak. This wine shows that if oak is used judiciously, and if the grapes are selected for concentration, oak can add the depth and character that will turn the wine into something really memorable. I don't remember the vintage I had. The wine was $48 at the restaurant (but it's a place with fairly gentle mark-ups). I haven't seen this in any stores -- but a quick and unscientific check on the internet seemed to disclose its being retailed at prices up to the thirties.

Aren't they really known more for eating all sorts of weird kinds of game than for eating insects?