matthewj

it seems that PAS, has made a very fine point. Well spoken.

I never said that Kellers is solely about keeping the locals happy. What I said was in the beginning, when no one knew about the French Laundry,( there was that period of time) and the tourist season slowed down, which it does in November through the months of rainy season. Napa and Sonoma both get. Keller, like a lot of the restaurants depended on the local clientele to get him through the slow months. This is what I was trying to illustrate. Keller has a strong local following that has remained loyal with him and his vision for years. They may not eat at the Laundry now, but they sure eat at Bouchon, and Ad Hoc.

I do not believe that this discussion is about cutting edge food, per se, but maybe the long term "potential" of that food, and if the market would accept that food,( I think Keller's food is cutting edge, because he has created a long line of followers and , and his standards are on the edge of perfection) and why it would or would not be profitable to venture into a Philadelphia hospitality market. I do not think anyone is disputing the claim of the fore most mentioned restaurants are bad or interesting. But I believe that April is throwing a gauntlet, questioning why isn't there more small type restaurants that aspire to be a chef and restaurant such as Vetri. It has both national and local appeal. This has nothing to do with being Italian or such it could be many different types of restaurants. My feeling is that Vetri is a great example,( I love examples as you all can tell) because if you put that restaurant in any other city, even New York, although with a lot more competition it would do well. Not because it is Italian. Because the chef and vision of the restuarant can be morphed into another cities Food culture, because it is clear and simple." great food great dinning" If the argument runs to the point that his price point is too high or his liquor margin is to0 high, I believe that if the laws were different his price would be lower. To do the cover that he wants and to control everything within the dining room and the kitchen with a small staff he need to price at that level. I am not sure you can say that about others restaurants in Philadelphia. There is a small handful, I believe it has a lot to do with the chef and his or her vision. To reply to V, I think that you are right on the money. I believe that the 20% of the clientele would leave. But why? It illustrates my point that Philadelphia eaters would not support the small restuarant evolving intro something else. Others cities would embrace the change and continue to patronize. Example (again) Tetsuya. Started as a BYOB. Now look at it. Keller for years had to devote his efforts keeping the locals happy, and they stayed loyal. Sometimes I think that the dinners in Philadelphia punish a National success of a restaurant. They collectively want to keep it all for themselves.

I remember a supreme court case, last year about Wineries, and on line sales of their wines, although the supreme court dodged a bullet. I think that if enough money is push or pulled in either direction, that someone has to budge. Even if a revised law privatizing wine would be a boon. I realize the repeal of the Volstead act, 21th amendment put the burden on the state, and the state is not willing to budge I think that if enough money is lost by corporations they will do something. Or the dreaded alternative they allow Wegmans to buy 11 licenses, basically screwing the little guy who can not even afford one. Hopefully that will not happen. It is too bad that The chairman retired, because the fight just became harder for the individual before at least wine drinkers had a voice. Whereas now we have none. I still think there is a reason rendell picked Conti as a CEO, other that the politics of it all, but I could be wrong

This is what I have always said that we needed, money talks in politics. If Wegmans, Target, Wholefoods realize the money lost not selling wine and beer in their stores in Pa they will eventually push to change policy, because it takes money and big guns to wake up bueracracy. Just wit until they start fighting the Pa Government for infringing on Comerce, with a direct monopoly.

I disagree with V ( heaven Forbid ) I believe that BYOS could still be a good starting point for beginning restaurants, and that the relevance could be long term, if a Liquor Licence was attainable. But i think that Stephen Starr would be much less relevant of a issue of trend dinning if a smaller restaurant was able to compete head to head with innovation, and creativity, and class. That is only if they were even allowed to attain a simple wine only license.

Wow. I wrote a small blurb, left for work; come back, and it is still raging. Awesome. So I have read all the responses, but I can not clip art as well as you all, (nor do I have the patience) I would like to address some of the topics and replies that have been rallied . ( I won't even use the LCB) . So. To answer someones comments in the beginning of the thread. Certainly there are cities where people gravitate just for the food. Did you ever live in Napa valley or Sonoma in the rainy season. It is terrible. Yontville was nothing until the French Laundry put it on the map. I really do not think that the article is Philadelphia self loathing. I have experienced almost all of the cities that were mentioned, I have either lived in the city or have adopted some cites as a second home. I believe that Philadelphia is on the cusp of something great. Better than New York, Boston or San francisco. You all have a wealth of talent in the city , but it dwindles or moves out of the city to greener pastures. Vernon Morales now owns a restuarant in San Francisco, why not in Philadelphia?Dominic Filoni felt it necessary to leave, as well as T Fuery. I believe that the article provoked a wealth of good points. A small point is that restaurants have a tough time, small, or large, in a fringe area. People will just not go. There are plenty of untapped spaces in Philadelphia, but I do not believe anyone would dare to open let alone patronize. Whereas in the other mentioned cities I know that people would. Example. Tetsuya started in a neighborhood outside of Sydney, It is now one of the the best in the world, Green Door, in Sanfrancisco started in the mission district. Chantrelles in New York, started in a small store front. (I did not agree with her points on that) People made the journey to patronage those restaurants, and stayed loyal as the restuarant grew into its own. If Django decided to move and relocate for a bigger space, and a licence, would they continue to thrive or would they be cast out as sell outs. Or would any of you travel at night to a dim lit corner restaurant in the middle of let say North east, west Philadelphia, Grays ferry Philadelphia, just to get a taste of the chefs creations, no matter how crazy? Many foodies in those fore mentioned cities would. (Do not bring in Marigold into the equation either) Putting aside liquor laws and such. It is really hard to do business in Philadelphia, with a privilege tax and a wage tax boring down on a start up. Issues. Small plates are not Boring, or passe. It is just that everyone kept messing them up and dumbing them down. After L @The Rittenhouse hit with the Plates courses.( Before everyone else did) (That was to V) Other restaurants thought that putting a bean salad with a lamb chop "lollipop" would be considered a small plate. That is not a small plate. It is just stupid. It takes a very good chef to pull it off. David Ansil, and Kubbet are some of the very few that can achieve that deftness that is needed to go into small plates. Small plates are not synonymous with tapas. I did not agree with the assessment about organic produce chefs, or the pottery barn comment. Some times that is all someone can afford. And organic farm fresh food needs to be the driving point and selling point in Philadelphia. PA has the best, yes, the best agricultural setting in the country. Philadelphia just has not tapped it yet. And sometimes patrons are not willing to pay the price. Yes I said it . I think that Richard is dead on accurate about the PR firms in the city. I think the book and the cook needs to go back to its original concept, put it back into the convention center, and ditch the Personality/ life style chef. I am sorry but I am not going to pay 110.00 dollars for "yum-mo" I think we are all better than that. They need to expand it to incorporate the wine experience as well. not just put into restaurants, it needs to seep out from ever pore of the city, so much so that celebrity chefs could so nothing but want to go to Philadelphia. Some one should take a look at Charleston food and wine expeience. The City totally embraced that festival. Support that rittenhouse market more, so that the farmers will want a reason to come into Philadelphia, and not New york. We need to find a way to get "non foodies" to try other restaurants than Starrs. "Budakan is gourmet". O yes that was exclaimed to me on my Vacation into the Philadelphia suburbs. I think slowly you will see that some of the younger chefs that left the city to travel and train in kitchens, other than going to YA YA's cafe or Stars turn and burn; walnut street bandits. Like France, Spain, Italy. are slowly coming home like a prodigal sons or daughters. It will just take time. I think that April is looking for who is going to take the reigns now that JML is gone, and George is soon to follow. Look at San Sebastian. Best food city in the world. They are not woried per capita, People per district how many yumm yumms are here or there. They are just food nuts there. I believe, I know Philadelphia will be a one of the best very very soon. PS sorry about the grammer- V and Big Boss

I just read the article by April white in the new Philly magazine on-line! I love it, great article. Let's get some feed back positive and negative comments are welcome

I grew up in his redgion, and he always had on the adgenda to loosen up the laws, update them and make then more applicable to restaurants. Since he himself was in the busiiness he can feel our pain. Also Thinking about it Ed is going to need both parties suport when the Casinos come to town. Liquor is going to be a big isssue.

let us put aside no likes the politics of this situation, but I believe that ED Rendell could have picked anyone to be the CEO of the LCB, but he assigned a republican who is in favor of loosening up the archaic laws of PA. HE has restuarant Business experience, this is good.

I worked for the Contis in doylestown, it was my first job, where Igrew up. the Contis are good people. This is a good thing. Joe Conti knows the restuarant business, and he knows the pains and tribulations it takes to get a liquor license, and to get descent wine into the state. I believe that this appointment is only going to make the sale of wine easier. Ed has always wanted to to deregulate the LCB, more, but the rest of the government lobbyist would not let him, I think he is going to change that now. He needs to if Casinos are coming into town. He needs someone who knows the business. So what if he received double the salary look how much the state is making in one year for the regulation of wine and booze. 1.7 billion a year. I would be more pissed off and wonder where is that money going. I know that there are a few stores that offer a good selection, but think of how good a selection and better price you would get if there was more competition other than the state . I am in Atlanta Ga and the selection is unbelievable, and the price is so low. Because of free competition the store are able to get more variety at a better price.

I would certainly question, why something recieved 4 bells, and you recieved service, and strings on food? I mean butchers twine on the roast is a rookie mistake, even when the chef should be at the pass looking at every plate.

KIo why did you edit your post. You brought up a lot of great points that should be addressed. You should put back your original post.

I know that "more perfect is not grammatically correct, but if it is in the preamble of the constitution, I am going to write it too

I agree That service probably has become considerable better under the rule of Ed Wildman, he was an is an excellent ambassador for proper service, wine knowledge, and managerial duties. I wish he was Gm when I was there I believe things would have gone a lot smoother. Ed has the knowledge to push a collective effort for a more perfect serving atmosphere.

Four Bells is hardly deserving of a chef that has only been at the helm for only 3 months. Although the systems are in place it is hard to see that short of being Thomas Keller, it would be difficult to pull off. When we won three bells at Lacroix I believed that it was accurate to award us Three and not Four bells. We were a Three bells restuarant, trying for Four. Service was not perfect and he had some issues with timing of food, which I agreed with him. The standard Four bells I think should be attained by only a few, as a bench mark of CONSISTANT, excellent, food and service that has to be legitimately achieved, and not some political "here you go run with it"- award. That is why the Four Seasons, Vetri and Le Bec are the only ones deserving of that title. Even by Michelin's standards deduct stars when the chefs leaves. It gives the restaurant time to earn the stars back. That being said we will see on Sunday, heck I am in another city, we shall see.

mmmmm. We shall see. Let us see if will be accurately critiqued with out the baubles and whistles,subliming gasses, and meat glue. I think it will be critiqued wisely. Rosebud

best hotel restuarant in the city is the Fountain room in the Four Seasons hotel. It is really pricey, but Martin Hamman hands down is the best chef in the city. As for the other must eats, try Vietnam. And Cappo girro, Tria is very good. Ansils, Gayle are also very good. Vetri is excellent But also very pricey. The Reading terminal market is a great place for people who enjoy food and it is a good stop to get a snap shot of Philadelphia.

Just when I thought the city was moving forward from that Backwards thinking. Leave it to the biggest pimple on the ass of Philadelphia to screw it up. I am not surprised. He has torpedoed more ideas and expansion to Philadelphia in the past eight years then anyone I can Imagine. Maybe his brother is not making money off that deal. Although the Sunday reading terminal is voluntary, my feeling is that if you do not want business then get out of the business. The reading terminal could , Could out shine almost every farm market in the country if they would just wise up and get jump on a program. This is important to the locals of the city who can not get to the market at 6:00 during the week because it closes too early. Let the market not just be a tourist destination. People need to speak up, because if this is true and the powers that be let this good thing die ,than Philadelphia is just living up to the reputation that I wish it never had.

I spoke to the chef d cuisine he said they will be open in about a month.

Loo.ks great John kepp going! Push a little further. Hold back nothing

I agree with V, Really people, just chill out. Disrespectful to the clientele? Who cares? It is a little place that just has opened it's doors, has barely gotten it's Liquor licence and everyone is sooo, impatient about it being the "perfect experience" . Give it time, let them work out its kinks it will not be Le Bec or Lacroix in a day. It takes awhile. I know everyone is used to the cookie cutter, "seamless" service and execution of other restaurants in Philadelphia. But that has become so formulaic that everyone has forgotten a dinning experience is about the community, as the restaurant finds it's course and grows with the neighborhood. Constantly evolving. Give it time, and a little consideration. Before I left Philadelphia I could not stand the wait at Morning Glory, but now I would crawl on my hands and knees for those pumpkin pan cakes. If anybody has been to Cafe du Monde, you will know hovering. If the food is that good, wait.

good luck John, even Atlanta is pulling for you.

what if you create something similiar. Maybe take cream, buttermilk , and yogurt, set it out like you would crem fraiche cultures. then wourk with what you have got. Sometimes the result is like you wanted.

maybe use yuba.