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to some degree you can't blame people for liking what they like. i too wish that everyone were as open-minded as many on eg when it comes to cocktails and experimentation. i also understand that it would be nice to introduce people to what you deem as "better". but let's face it, most of the people most of the time go with what they know and like and, quite frankly, don't want to think about it too much. Freshherbs you know what this quote makes me think of? My least favorite subject in the world and I shouldn't mention it but it does: Politics."What people know and like and quite frankly don't want to think about it too much". IE making decisions with one's eyes closed. This is very high on list of evils in the world. I realize this is a cocktail blog but I see lots of analogy between peoples actions in bars relative to actions outside bar. Look at the people in suits impersonating human beings we have been watching for as long as I can remember. People's politicians are even worse then there drinking habits. Anyways sorry to open this can of worms but to accepts habits as ones rule of thumb depresses me to the point of tears. On a better note the popularity of St Germain I believe is due to the fact that it is a new quality liquior in a market desperate for new modifyers. Plenty of great base spirits what we need is more good modifyers. Eric Seeds are also good examples. And sorry for meddling in nonsense, just felt it was a point I wanted to make. Pick your drink carefully!!!!

Moderator's note: I've split this interesting discussion off from the Last Word topic. -- CA The thing about not carrying an overpriced, overrated, overordered bit of swill such as Grey Goose is peoples own good. Unfortunately we are creatures of habit and too lazy to cozy up to the confines of the great unknown too often. If one doesn't carry garbage one can't order garbage. I want to stress again what I said about it being the bartenders job to open peoples eyes to things be it spirits, cocktails, or lore. Remember we are not just creatures of habits we are constently under seige by millions of dollars of marketing. And marketing as far as the drinking industry go advertise crap and different kinds of crap. We must emancipate these poor souls from the grips of Miller Lite and Grey Goose. When people come in my bar and ask for a Grey Goose Red Bull(more filth) and I tell them I don't have either, and the proceed to ask for two other things I don't carry they realize something strange is going on and are curious to explore the cocktail list. Remember people don't need good or great cocktails to drink, people would drink anyway. But people need good or great cocktails to drink better. Its a bartenders job to get people to drink better.

EJE, it is a good bartenders job to get people to drink great drinks and to do so without a "bribe" if you will. I think the point is made tha VEP isn't neccesary by the upper portion of this thread which touched on just how quickly the Last Word or lets say word of spread through out the country. Its a drink that sells itself.

Allow me to chime in and I'm sorry to say it but it seems idiotic to me to put VEP in Last Words. Frankly I don't think it has the body to stand up in the drink as well as the normal green. ITs a waste of money and catering to the more expensive is better myth. The notion of which gets my pannies in a ruffle. On a brighter note have been making Latest Words with the Junipero Genevive, actually on our new list.

Been making Latest Words-last words with Junipero Genevive. Petes Last Word-Last Words with Laphroiag. Also classic and a bit more obscure the Trinity-Equal parts Gin, Dry V, and Sweet V. Also for Famous Grouse I did a cross between a Corpse R and Blood and Sand-Using Grouse, Antica, C'treau,Orange and dash of Absinthe which turned out well. This is a good topic Sam. And lets not forget the lovely succulent Fitty-Fitty I know your quite familiar with. Can I also make a case for the Americano here. I love them stirred using Antica up with no soda water. Delightful and can drink them forever and more importantly when your not supposed to be drinking.

Indeed Sam, Sazeracs are a perfect example, one must be able to get there nose in there or they might as well just add a dash.

No one seems to have mentioned aromatics yet. I believe that is the most important part of using a rinse. Our first impression is seeing a drink, the second is smelling it, this is why I love rinses at times. Particularily very intense ingrediants such as peaty scotches and smokey mezcals. On another point this is a very good way to introduce people to such things without overwhelming them. One of which has been going out with great success recently is call the: Cooper's Union 2 Red Breast .5 St Germain 2 dash Orange bitters Stir and serve Sazerac style employing a Laphroiag rinse instead of absinthe Garnish with Lemon twist not dropped in Cheers

We probably have about ten cocktails using two spirits on the menu now. One thing thats interesting to me: lacking more good modifying liquiors why not use base spirits as modifyers. Think the Diamondback. 2 rye, .5 yellow chartruese, .5 Lairds Bonded. The bonded just makes it reach another plain. Rule to be broken indeed.

You missed a 0 John. Thats 200 liters not 20 liters.

Every bartender does not have all the drinks memorized yet. Some do consult recipes right now, if for no other reason to double check. Dedication demands one not forget that dash of bitters. Now Sam about a long list not being as inventive I'm not so sure I agree with you. Your point about the 6th street swizzle, have you seen that on any other list?? Also we know the simplest things can be the most delecious(think martini or old fashion here). What often ruins drinks is people try to be too inventive. Less is more. There is delectible treats passed right over in the name of ten ingrediant catastrophe. Furthermore a large list offers balance of choices for all spirits (worth mentioning) and variations with that spirit, IE shaken or stirred. Also what I feel one of our most important jobs is to open peoples eyes to new ingrediants. For example we have two batavia arrack based cocktails on the list. The only reason this is possible is because of the size of the list. The drinks are not for everybody but we can still put them on the list because we don't have sacrifice drinks that are for everybody on a spot on a menu of only10 or 15 cocktails. Also our list allows us to showcase families of drinks. We have a champagne, julep, daquiri, punch, tall cooler, and multiple choice sections. Its not 70 drinks, its organized with families and spirits. Also think of all the people who go to there favorite bars and don't look at a menu and just have the bartender whip something up for them(sound familiar Sam?) I wanted a menu that would cater to these important patrons. Why design a menu with people only visiting once in mind. A menu of 70 is for those who come and come again for their on going entertainment and refreshment. Lastly people are getting more and more outlandish in there requests for suggestions.... "I feel like blueberry with a hint of perhaps black truffle and a dash of foam which must be of a bright hue, not too sweet but I want it to be rich and I want it strong but not to taste boozy. Oh and please I'd like it served in a 18th century brass goblet(unstemmed)!" The more drinks I have the better chance of finding something to please maybe even the unpleasable. Yes it can be overwhelming to some people but I'll take that risk because it will be boring to no one. Yes the font is bigger.

Christ almighty where to began. Its times like this I truly believe I'm a masocist. I should just ignore such blatant hogwash....but I can't. First of all is this the best the New York Times can do? They have had some really good coverage of the cocktail world, well written, well represented with the right people in the industry to represent their industry and then here is this ignorant jack#@$! who on one hand claims there is nowhere in the city to get a "good margarita" and then proceeds to make one on tape with simple syrup. I think there is a reason this guy "always wound up using the same 3 ingrediants", its because he is a moron when it comes to cocktails (and maybe in general if he is foolish enough to appear as an authority on subject matter in which he is obviously ignorant). Good work all around, makes the front page that much more credible.

Good news, with the success of marketing millions worldwide morons everywhere are buying bad overpriced booze leaving plenty of the good stuff under the radar at your service. Rum- Skip the Bacardi and Ten Cane and have a field day. Real cheap Barbancourt (white especially cheap and fine, fine, fine). Appleton V/X great price makes great cocktails. Just must mention it Ron Zacapa 23 liquid silk for about 35 to 40 dollars a bottle. Skip the makers and JD, get your paws on some fine whiskey Rittenhouse Bonded perhaps dollar price to quality the best bottle of booze on earth considering its price. Old Overholt and Wild Turkey Rye also under 20$$. Buffalo Trace ridiculously cheap for quality. Gin- Beefeater find it in jug size drink in moderation. Lets not forget about Gordons either, its not fantastic but the price is. Tequila- Heradura silver(tequila is expensive), Siempre Azul, and Centenario are very good options, the most important thing to remember is to turn your nose up at the Patron and scoff while reach past it for the heradura. Beware of many fakers in this catagory. Brandy- Laird's 100 Apple Brandy Laird's 100 Apple Brandy Lairds 100 Apple Brandy Could be a in Second place behind the Rittenhouse in quality versus Price If its cognac you desire the HINE H is very good and priced well. Drink well Drink cheap. Cheers

If you can get your hands on some grab some Thai Basil. Works well with Gin, Tequila, and Rhum Agricoles quite well. P

When I was at Bourbon and Branch they made a nice drink for me call the Green Hornet 2 rye .5 Fernet B .5 Green Chartruese I found it quite lovely. I came home and promply switched the rye out for Junipero gin and found it even a more satisfying drink. Sometimes one really gets interesting results putting two tyrants like Green Chrt. and Fernet B. in the same room.

dsoneil did I read right. American whiskey isn't any good. Your right on just like cuban rum and french cognac are equally undrinkable. Simply put the reason people drink Canadian whiskey and only canadian whiskey is the same reason people drink vodka instead of gin or Barcardi instead of Appletons or Barbancourt. The fact is non-entities such as vodka or canadian whiskey dumb down palates to the point where bland equals good and flavor equals bad. I don't think I've ever read anything on Egullet as foolish as your statement about American whiskey. 40 creek was Canada's only hope. Keep hoping. Long live Rittenhouse Rye. The best 16 dollars possibly spent in the world. Here is a thought. A sazerac made with canadian club. Shudder.

From the horse's mouth Jovencourt Daquiri 2 barbancourt white .75 simple .75 lime .25 Los Amantes joven mezcal shake serve up Oaxaca Old Fashion barspoon amber agave nectar 1.5 El Tosoro Reposado .5 Los Amantes Joven 2 Dash Angustora Stir serve on rocks Flamed orange twist Naturally Mayur put more booze in because he is a lush

I saw Dewars noted above. Please lets stick to scotches worth mentioning and more importantly worth drinking. I also highly recommend Asayla and Grouse, and I know its popular enough to despise sometimes but Macallan 12 really does make fine fine Rob Roy among other scotch cocktails. One other thing is if making a rob roy and one desires peat instead of using and Islay for the base one can use say an asayla and add an additional quarter ounce or merely a rinse of a highly peated scotch to keep it company. Sammy Ross is particularily good at this. The Fitz Roy is a fine drink.

Quality cannot be mass produced. Enough said. Even if you have a machine its going to matter what goes in it not how it is shaken or stirred or chilled. Its still going to take skills to balance the right ingrediants in the "mix". I must admit though the idea of watching a cup put up to a nozzle and squirting out my drink makes me so much thirstier than the conjuring the image of a skilled human measuring out each ingrediant right in front of me, shaking or stirring my cocktail, pouring it, and serving it to me. Is infantile the word I'm looking for here???

I always like to muddle at least one Lime wedge in my Southsides just for the oils extracted. .75 simple .75 lime 2 Gin ( its amazing how different gins make different drinks) muddle one lime wedge (at least) mint

I've been calling my rep and threatening his life daily if he doesn't get me some of the junipero G soon. He swears it "in route". Today he said it was supposed to arrive by the end of this month but its looking more like early April, but it is on the way.

I sometimes swear it is harder name drinks than it is to create drinks. One system I have is being a voracious fiction reader I save characters, places, or even titles of books to be used when drinks are otherwise drawing a blank on the name front. Obscure literary references are also fun to see who knows them. I've used such things as The Illywhacker, The Schruffs End, or the Julien Sorrel to name a few. I'm also quite willing to let customers help me. Generally a drink isn't named until its been tried by some regulars, many of which love to name drinks almost as much as I sometimes loath naming them, so I very willing to allow them to contribute. I agree with everything you said Sam. And even worse than naming variations is using the same name and the wrong recipe. Brooklyn is full of Brooklyn cocktails on menus not a one of which is made correctly. Simply use a different name. In my book a drink name comes with ingrediants and proportions. Proportions can be tweaked ingrediants should not be changed. Change the ingrediants its a different drink. No exceptions.

Big ice. If your ice is big enough there isn't any need to muddle mint. You'd just over work it. Otherwise your only other option than muddling in the case of berrys or fruits would make a puree ahead of time with a food processor. But than its not as fresh, can go bad, and wasted. Why not muddle?

Lets not forget the zig zag in seattle. Is certainly one of the top five classic cocktail bars in the country.

I've actually found it works quite well with Eric's new Pimento Dram. Been making daquiris with a quarter ounce of the dram which is delightful. 2 Ibis .75 lime .75 simple .25 dram Also a boozier notion teaspoon Cane syrup 2 Ibis .5 dram dash of angustora Orange twist Find the ibis has great spice and body when mixed, it even has beaten the Santa Teresa 1796 in a few blind cocktail tastings. Thats saying something in my book. I'm sure someone will ask: Its available at Astor and Lenells or for truly professional service at Death and Co.

Rye and soda all summer long. Fine in any other season as well. Last year at Tales in NOLA drank alot of Lairds Bonded with soda and Peychaud bitters was tasty. Could argue over supposed highballs until we were passed out or blue in the face. If I was to give a generic definition I would say as has been said it comes in a highball glass, my other parameter is that it is not a shaken drink, that rings more of cocktail to me. Though a highball can be considered a cocktail. This could turn into a sticky mess.