shacke

I try to avoid such arguments like this but it's been a while so I will chime in a bit. Realize that this is my opinion so if you disagree, that's fine. The CS program is not geared to the high end consumer but to the every day Joe PA. Maybe a customer here and there knows a thing or so about wine but it's really for the average citizen. Perhaps some oenophiles do not want to drink a 2000 Cali cab at any price and scoff at the system for selling it to the masses. Hey, news flash, a lot of people don't know, care or both. This makes some wine geeks really steam - like PA is getting away with a crime or something. As someone who collects, enjoys and drinks wine, I have no quarrel with the spirit of the program but I do not pretend it is something that it's not. Frankly, with the potential storage issues the state has, why would you want to buy and lay down high end bdx from PA anyway, especially if it's already an older bottle? That's russian roulette. Plus, even at a discount, 90% of pennsylvanians won't be buying Pichon Lalande or Margaux. It seems to me that a round wine geek like me generally doesn't fit into the square hole of the CS program. That doesn't make the program suck - at least in my book. It's got it's issues - even for the general consumer - I understand that. Still, if it's getting people to try new wine and learn - that's a good thing. one other thing ... That is a huge stretch to say "most" and "many". Don't try to elevate the program to something it is not.

Once again, big props and a loud shout out to Vadouvan for organizing this tasting. I think what this tasting indeed showed was that the method of cooking can affect, and positively, the overall enjoyment of the meat which translates into bettering a lesser quality piece of meat. I thought that pan searing had the least effect, essentially making the innate quality of the meat show it's stuff and if it's not there - there isn't much you can do. This is more of a showcase method of preparation. Sous vide, which is not the stuff of most kitchens, including mine, enhances these natural textural qualities of the beef. Texture improves allowing some others faults to be less obvious. If there is a pleasant feel to the steak, your brain will automatically give the meat some points. In addition, it seems to lock in fat which improves flavor. Unlike the sear and sous vide, the grilling adds another flavor dimension to the steak and this to me was the best method. Granted, they were perfectly cooked on a particular grill with bincho-tan. If I had thrown this on the grill in the backyard, I would not have had this kind of luck. For that reason, I am likely to continue to sear at home with good cuts. The grilling, like sous vide, adds an extra flavor component (not overwhleming at all) to the steak so it is a good choice if the cut of meat you have is not 10 out of 10. Whole foods fared much better this time around and the steak actually looked much better so go by your eye if you are shopping there and reject anything that looks wimpy and anemic. The flannery steak was excellent and I am glad to have had it included. While I have thoughts on how it compares to Lobel's, I will not make a judgment since it was not head to head. You can't go wrong with either. Thanks to all. Evan

The hostess has offered to take my coat when I've been there. (But I've never taken her up on it, as I have a camera in the pocket....) ← But you were happy to see her too, right?

If that's what the heart is set on ...... but ..... I live around the corner and it's just not all that good unless you are in a pinch. How about Sang Kee at least - in Wynnewood? That's much better fare and very close by. To really throw out an idea that is not far fecthed, Chinatown is 10 minutes from Bala (I routinely get my take out there) and opens up many more options - especially if there are discriminating asian palates to be pleased.

Bryan You have helped me out greatly with your post. Not only am I having the tasting on Sunday but I am staying at the Sofitel and bread - to me - is a big shmear. Thanks Z

Ku-Il, my beloved in the Northeast - has passed on too. sniff sniff

I would give this a complete and total pass given the myriad of other dining options in the city. Been twice, last one was about 2 years ago but I doubt anything has changed. BOOOR-ing.

Hey Bryan Maybe I will bump into you. We will be there also, hitting Alinea as our splurge dinner. Otherwise, I am seriously looking forward to some shots at Intelligentsia and overloading on local pizza. Evan

Well I don't recall but it was octopus salad with greens and potatoes, not just straight grilled polpo like at Dimitris. There were more than 4 tiny pieces and although I can't remember, it seemed like a good sized plate. Yes the pizza is over $20. However you slice it, the place is costly. The plates above, with a dessert and two espressos also was $130 for two - not including tip. That unfortunately means a lot of people will relegate the restaurant to a special occassion destination only. But to me, there is expensive and over rated and there is food that is worth the price tag. Osteria is the latter. On a lighter note, one thing I do remember from alst night that I didn't post earlier was the cute phrase painted on the oven. It's in Italian but it says "God created food. The devil, the cooks."

OK. I'll add another log on the hype fire. Osteria was really really good. Cotechino Arancini Pizza parma Octopus salad Candele with boar bolognese Truly outstanding was the pasta and the octopus. I mean I never had octopus like that before. It was flat out stellar. The cotechino gives new meaning to sausage eggs and grits, man. There was a teeny bit of a screw up as our original server left after we ordered because of the weather and never told the kitchen we wanted a pizza. I mentioned this at the end of our meal and at that point we were beyond stuffed and were telling them to forget it but they said "oh it's coming out in 5 minutes" and so it did. They did in fact forget. It wasn't that great, a bit underdone and I wouldn't have chosen this particular pizza in the first place. I won't judge the pizza because I don't think it was a good example of what could have been. I will leave it up to my trusted friends upthread and their esteemed opinions of the pizza potential. Toward the end of the meal, the guy next to me got the rabbit which I am definitely getting next time. Oh the wandering green eye!

Do you want you gulleteer card revoked? I will be there at 6 even if I have to shovel the door open my damn self Maybe I will see you there.....

Aren't I just a shill. Another great meal at Pif tonight with a bunch of friends, old and new. We sat in the back room which really may be a room to book in moderate weather (read: avoid summer and winter). I was just cozy having enjoyed some killer burgundy and other reds but the ladies were particularly frozen. Anyway, David Ansill continues to cook my kind of food. I so forgot my camera as I am so used to having Philadining in tow. For starters, I had the skate and eggs. Seared skate pieces atop haricot verts with a red wine reduction. Topped with a quail egg and chives. Very good - very simple and well executed. After having passed on the entrecote a few times, tonight I ordered it and it was bangin. It's one of my favorite pieces of meat in the city. It was served with potatoes boulanger which interestingly I had a rendition of at pumpkin, cooked by former sous chef David Kane last week. These were very different and way more killer. Agridolce, small chunks of bacon. Terrific. While never a huge proponent of the dessert offerings there, I had a very satisfying if not pedestrian apple turnover with creme anglaise. It was one of the better desserts I have had there. Others had the staple pot de creme and creme brulee and were very pleased. Indeed, David Ansill told me the building is no longer for sale. Bravo once again for another great dinner.

This is easily defended against by the establishment. If they really care, during peak table times, tell the caller that at the time of the reservation that they will check an ID or take a credit card number, dont charge it and ask that they present it when they arrive for verification. Sound weird? Well thats easy to fix if its a real problem. Personally, I might have been tempted to do it for Babbo, TFl or Per Se where the elitist process of getting a table is even more moronic. Talk about jumping through hoops. Evan

Thanks for the detailed post, Percy. I will be there in a couple of weeks but my wife would not agree to go to Alinea if we ordered the tour - and seeing the tour marathon bring you to bear, I am longer feeling like I am missing out too badly. Thanks for taking one for the Philly team.

I ventured out into the horrible storm last week with a freshly slipped disc (had to on pain of death) for a meal with a bunch of wine geeks. We had a set menu for a burgundy/california pinot theme which in retrospect is an unfair match up even though the grapes are the same. I had a really good meal there back in December where there was an umpteen course Barolo dinner and so I decided to return. Ian and David were very easy to plan with and were particularly interested in making the dinner a success and tried diligently - with success I might add - to pair the courses with the wine flights in advance. Of note, David Kane - formerly sous chef of Pif has moved here to cook with Ian and his Pif style has come with him. The knock I have had with Pumpkin in the past has been that the flavor combinations that Ian has brought forth have been hit or miss palate wise even though they appeared to my lay eye to have been technically well executed. We started out with a crab and scallop terrine which was pretty banal. Happily, that was followed by ouef de meurette (?sp) - a burgundian preparation of a poached egg in red wine. That was interesting and fairly tasty. This was quickly upstaged by a perfectly barely cooked pan roasted squab accompanied by a roasted cepe, a dollop of naked risotto. The sauce, labeled only as natural jus, was definitely headier - more like a richer demiglace. We then had a monster portion of pan seared sweetbreads with potato boulanger which consisted of sliced potato, bacon and verjus. The protein was kickass and the potatoes were a distal but solid second. Dessert was a pop fly out into right - some non descript apple crisp. Overall, this meal restored my faith in Pumpkin again. While the staff was clearly alarmed and even a bit miffed by the number of bottles on the table (a capaneus like 14 bottles for 14 people), the service was pretty good and I would go back again. Granted, this was a special menu but one of the diners ordered a la carte and said he enjoyed his meal. I personally would pay attention to the menu when ordering and keep it simple rather than pull the trigger on too complicated a plate.

An observation. Why is there such an obsession with tossing chopped parsley on everything? I mean, Vetri is a good chef. I expect that "plop" as a crutch on crappy food at Applebees or Fridays but it's all over the dishes above? It's not an inert flavor so why automatically incorporate that into all these plates that really don't need it? The dishes don't need the extra visual appeal. It's kinda lame. Oh yeah - I don't particularly like it either (and it looks like the stronger tasting flat parsley) so that's why I take notice.

While I guess everyone is free to speak their minds, there does appear to be a strange Bella-Meritage axis of mean persnicketyness in here the last couple of days. See above and here.

I got my infrared thermometer on ebay. I used it to measure floor temps in my brick oven and most of them read celsius - at least when I was shopping for mine.

I want to put this thread on the map to track what will hopefully be many of us gulleteers trying Osteria in the coming weeks. I for one am very excited at the prospect of this restaurant. While we wait for opening day, any news or sneaked tidbits, do tell. I am sure at least one ( ) of us in here can get a sneak preview of the digs, atmosphere, food..... Not sure of the exact opening date as it seems to have shifted over time. Evan

Doubt that. Grass fed is a better environmental and healthful choice but it is not worthy competition. Having said that, people often enjoy grass fed flavor. Indeed with that however comes a loss of that sexy texture - at least with current bovinology technique.

Ok, so I am the guy pushing 40 with 2 kids who is just about getting up now. Mrgibjas is a rookie. While I have come across many tasting notes, I attempted in a very unscientific way of writing steak notes and then, for the readerss, scoring them like a report card. Very primary – I judged on pure tactile properties: Beefy taste, texture to the tooth and finally mouthfeel. After comparing notes, there were fairly uniform opinions with one or two exception. Dibrunos dry aged rib eye: This was the first up and I immediately started to sweat. The only clear failure, coarsely textured, light beef flavor – almost grassfed tasting, no pleasant mouthfeel. F Wells Angus: Moderately soft texture with slight silk. Excellent beefy flavor but lacked richness – good but 1 dimensional flavor B Wells dry aged choice: Mild softness to the texture, mild but pleasant beef flavor. Lack of mentionable mouthfeel. C Esposito 21d dry age strip: Very beefy if not possessing an additional gentle tang. Controversial sample. Others were very off-put by this meat. I was not. NB – I enjoy brett notes (barnyard) in my wines. Overall, it had good softness and moderate silk mouthfeel. B Harry Ochs dry aged porterhouse: Off color, potentially hampered by reduced thickness compared to other samples. While it offered some attempt at real beef taste, it fell flat as did its feel in the mouth. D Whole Foods dry aged strip: Things going sour again. Very coarse texture, lackluster presence in the mouth. No desirable elements. As Dibrunos sample, anemic flavor as if it had a poor diet of grass only. It actually looked sorry prior to cooking – like it had been bullishly cowtipped it’s whole life by its yardmates. D Wolfe neck ribe eye: Much better than the others at this point in all respects. Significantly soft toothsome texture, moderately silky mouthfeel, more respectable beefy taste. Good cut nut not outstanding. B Peter Luger dry aged porterhouse: Very soft texture. First sample where there is a clearly dominant silky mouthfeel. Strong beefy taste – somewhat linear – in that for the intensity of beef taste I would expect more going on on the palate. B+ Lobels 6 wk dry aged porterhouse: Steak of the night for me. Intense tenderness. This is the only cut I would label as delectable. Unctuous mouthfeel, richly textured. Very beefy to the point where the flavor coats the palate and you experience residual taste after it’s gone. A profound piece of meat, richly deserving of it’s reputation. My kingdom to repeat with some mature Bordeaux. Buyer beware though, particularly if eating the even more over the top filet component. This is a belly filler of the highest degree. I could not see myself ingesting more than 8 oz and not feeling repercussions later. A To put it in perspective, while there were flat out winners and losers, I would happily buy any of these steaks with the exception of Dibrunos, Whole Foods and Ochs. So there you have it, in a form that I hoped would translate. A point that was brought up last night and again by Mr Big today is – what the heck do we do now? Well, I classify it into two camps. First one easy – second one harder. For a special occasion or a time where there is planning and you want the best – you buy Lobels. I wouldn’t even bother with the others – why? If you are going to hell, drop in in a golden self cooled hand basket. The more difficult question is what to do here in Philadelphia for every day purposes. I think given the results of the tasting offer spinoff potential using local cuts that are available widely. Wegmans, Foodsource, local butchers. While they may not elevate themselves into some of tonight’s out of town competition, they may be a good option. I personally thought that the Esposito’s is a fine choice to try at home. Was it a fluke or is this the real deal? Other than that, it’s pretty much SOL. Dibrunos needs to change their supplier – I will add another vote in here for that. Dagordons said they have had good cuts at Whole Foods but inconsistency can be just as bad as the stinker cooked up last night. One additional thought. These steaks were perfectly seared and cooked. So good that one had to be careful to taste the interior without the crust to properly gauge flavor. That tells me that technique is your friend. Since all the crusts were unanimously delicious, you will get a better experience by eating any pieces intact – crust and crumb. Necessito mas papas fritas indeed. Great fries and a heck of a salad Vadouvan. As a true lover of French bistro, it is the best bistro meal possible. Steak frites and salad Lyonnaise. Thanks to Vadouvan, thanks to all. Evan

V Since you mentioned Lobel's, I will mention another - Bryan Flannery out in SF. It's not inexpensive by any stretch but I hear it is among the best dry aged beef available.

The schnoz is officially back from the shop. There's never a supplicating smiley when you need one.....

Since we are talking of Michael Pollan, this is a link to an older NYT article on the american beef industry. Interesting read then and now. Another instance where an idea spawned to improve corporate efficiency has had a far reaching health impact - this one beyond the walls of the human coronary artery and much more complex both in effect and solution than the trans fat issue which - for me at least and min you I am very much probusiness - is a no brainer.

Perhaps we should take a step back for a moment and look from another angle. No reason to get all bent out of shape in here. Asbestos was some pretty useful stuff but we don't use it anymore. Why? Well because long term exposure killed a lot of ordinary folks and disabled many others. I have seen it. It's quite nasty. Many of you may not even want to briefly walk into a room with asbestos wrapped pipes - or into a basement with high radon levels. You can you know. Imagine now that it became standard of practice to cook with asbestos microfibers added and then it became apparent one day it was really bad for you. Imagine furthermore that it was cheaper and maybe even tasted better to the consumer. When you see a clear correlation with a culprit to a specific debilitating disease, its easier to support banning that culprit. Chronic intake of trans fatty acids may not lead to a specific form of coronary disease so it's more stealthy. Heart disease is already the number 1 killer of Americans. It may be hard to dissect the victims of chronic trans fat intake out of those numbers. When mounting evidence comes to light that says the risks to public health are significant and there are other alternatives to achieve similar aims, even at higher costs, the government should step in to protect the public health. It's one of the things the government must do for us.