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Sadly, the rhubarb vinegar never really did anything and then developed a mold problem. I've never been over fond of gastrique. I was talking to feste a bit about this, she definitely has more insight than I, but it seems the best way to think of a shrub is in the context of a pre-prepared mix or bottled base for the preparation of punch. The reason for the vinegar isn't so much that vinegar is necessary for a shrub, but that acid is necessary for preservation and the balance of the drink. Citrus just wasn't as easy to come by, so other things were used, from chemical acids to vinegars. It isn't a coincidence that the combination of sugar, acid, and water that is used as base for punch is also called "shrub".

That may be, but being a bottled aperitif or digestiv didn't stop people from using just about anything they could lay their hands on in drinkd, and there are certainly bunches of modern drinks that use Pimm's No 1 as an ingredient. I find it hard to believe that our predecessors were any less inventive. Though, my other thought was the Pimm's Cup as a beverage was just too, uh, I dunno, well known, for anyone to bother writing it down. Kind of like writing down a Gin & Tonic. Of course that didn't stop them from writing down The Highball or Gin & It. Maybe I just haven't read enough English drinks manuals.

Like I said, I just find it odd it doesn't appear in any prohibition era or pre-prohibition cocktail books I've ever seen. You've seen ads for it or recipes with it prior to its appearance in the UKBG Approved Cocktails Glossary?

Peach bitters are a bit confusing, I think. It seems like there was a variety of products, some potable and some not. Stuff like Rin Quin Quin on one side and, well, Fee's on the other. A bitters that was like Fee's Peach Bitters, but actually bitter, would be nice. On the other hand, there aren't that many classic cocktails which call for Peach Bitters, so it is hard to know how big a market there would be. Cocktail enthusiasts are vocal about this or that missing obscure ingredient. Then when we actually get it, we sometimes realize why there were only 5 or 6 classic cocktails which called for it. You see a company like Bols with their Genever. They've done a great job promoting the historical context of their beverage. They pimped new and old cocktail recipes to use it in. Events, Bars, parties, etc. But that takes a lot of money and effort. On the other hand, you might take the example of some of the Violet liqueurs. How many violet liqueurs does a person (or bar) need? And how much of them are you the manufacturer really going to sell? I haven't even finished the first 300ml bottle of Violet liqueur I suitcased in from England 6 years ago, let alone that 750ml of R&W Violet at the back of the cabinet. I would love not to have to make my version of Hercules every month, but that doesn't mean I think there is really enough of a demand for cocktail friendly Yerba Mate infused Aperitifs to launch a business. Heck, E&F Newall already tried it at the start of the 20th Century and look where it got them.

This might be an odd question: I've noticed a real lack of Pimm's Cup recipes in pretty much any 19th or early 20th Century Cocktail Book I've read, or even much mention of Pimm's. Sure there are recipes for "Cups" but recipes for Pimm's Cups or other cocktails with Pimm's are very absent, considering the variety of spirituous ingredients called for in these books. I even looked through the UK Bartender's Guild "Approved Cocktails" circa the mid 1930s, when Harry Craddock was president, figuring Pimm's would have to be mentioned. But the only mention is in the Glossary, where it says, "Pimm's No. 1 Cup.--This is claimed by the manufacturers to be the original Gin Sling." How creditable are its claims as a historic beverage, or are we looking at another case of manufactured history?

You have my sympathy as well, Sam. Speaking of dangerously easy drinking punches, this lactified version of Pisco Punch was crazy: Pisco Milk Punch

Update on Rhubarb and Balsamic Shrub/Vinegar. Well, it never really went through an active fermentation stage, but it looks there is a mother formed and working away. I guess the Balsamic vinegar was really alive. Smells great.

One difference I was thinking about, syrups are typically hot process, as Christian Schultz notes, taken to "little pearl" stage of sugar concentration in the syrup. Whereas the syrups created for punch bases are not typically that saturated. You might pour hot tea over the sugar to dissolve, but you'd never concentrate it to soft ball. Is it the same for old shrub recipes? Maybe that's why the vinegar and/or booze are needed as preservative.

So far no real fermentation action in the rhubarb vinegar/shrub/whatever, but some of the comments on the Diana Kennedy fruit vinegar that Rancho Gordo made indicated it might take a while. It's also not been real warm in Bernal Heights this week. A commented on my Savoy Shrub Post remarked that shrub and sherbert share the same linguistic root. Michael Lazar: And, of course, the syrup base made for punch is typically called a "sherbert". I'm still wondering about the vinegar.

What is it? 2 Cups Rhubarb Stems Chopped 1/2 Cup Washed Raw Sugar 1/4 Cup Bariani Balsamic Vinegar 4 Cups Water What will it be?

I always thought it was interesting that Christian Schultz calls for fermentation in the manufacture of his Raspberry Syrup!

I have to admit I'm pretty confused by the exact nature of shrubs. Going through recipes, I see very little similarity between the recipes. Some include vinegar, some do not. I was also reading the Rancho Gordo site about making a traditional Mexican fruit vinegar, and thinking, isn't this a Shrub? Pineapple Vinegar (Part 1) Pineapple Vinegar (Part 2) Dilute, home made, fruit flavored vinegar? I am also wondering if the shrub recipes without vinegar are assumed to be left to ferment, and, well, that thought's opposite, that the recipes which use vinegar are taking shortcuts.

Speaking of not very upscale, I've quite enjoyed the couple meals I've had at lers ros in the tenderloin. I'm not an expert in Thai food, but what I've had here is the most interesting and enjoyable I've had in San Francisco. Also, I quite enjoy many of the experiments in modern Chinese themed cuisine currently going on at Mission Chinese Food.

I'm not going to touch that one, Mitch. While traditional whatsit Neopolitan Pizza has made great strides in SF, I think the best pizza is the seasonal, ingredient driven pizza of Sharon Ardiana's restaurants Gialina and Ragazza. Some quibble with the crust for not being "traditional" enough, but how can you not want to eat a pizza with Asparagus w/ mozzarella, Meyer lemon, truffled Pecorino & a farm egg? Or Dandelion Greens w/ sweet Italian sausage, red onions & Fontina? Or Wild Nettles w/ pancetta, mushrooms, red onions & provolone? At a tiny local restaurant with good salads and appetizers?

Oops, sort of replied to this in the other topic. I second Commonwealth and Bar Agricole heartily, not to mention Comstock Saloon. New chef and bar manager at Absinthe since I was last there, but I've heard good things. One I haven't seen mentioned, if you're interested in food as art, is Atelier Crenn. We had a nice meal at Plate Shop in Sausalito recently Goodness, your list is reminding me of all the new places I haven't been to yet: Wayfare, Prospect, Sons and Daughters, Baker and Banker, Cotogna... And, well, if you're in San Francisco the last Sunday of the month, don't forget to stop by Alembic and say "Hi!".

We recently celebrated my wife's birthday at Saison and while we thought the service staff very good and personable, the food wasn't particularly notable or interesting, especially for the price. Of the dishes in the tasting menu, there were two that were memorable and one of those was the amuse. The pacing of the meal was also not outstanding and the wine pairings unremarkable. The downside to such an expensive restaurant is that it tends to attract a rather upscale, expense account wielding, business class clientele. Not really our scene. After a while listening to the next table's incredibly boring and incredibly loud, marketing bullshit business meeting, (GET A ROOM!) we opted to move to the bar out by the wood burning ovens, which was far more pleasant an atmosphere. My wife and I agreed, we probably wouldn't return. Having been to quite a few very nice restaurants, we didn't think they were really operating at the level they should be for what they were charging for the meal.

I'm pretty sure I read about a remodel for Coi that would consolidate on the regular menu and do away with the dinner service in the Lounge. I Haven't been there personally, but I've heard a lot of good things about Mr. Patterson's slightly less formal restaurant in Oakland: Plum. A couple weeks ago, my wife and I had a very good meal at the Plate Shop in Sausalito, which recently had a writeup in the SF Chronicle. Plenty of intriguing dishes at Plate Shop

Well, the Jupiter is a nice cocktail, if a bit finicky, and I've had very good ones made with the Brizard Parfait Amour. I've tried the Pages Parfait Amour which is imported into the US, and can't say I think much of it. Tastes like Violet lozenges. I bought it, I regret it. I needed another bottle of violet liqueur like I needed a hole in my head. The Brizard Parfait Amour reminds me most of Grape Jelly Beans, or some other candy. Different enough from Creme de Violette that I might think about buying one, if I ever saw it again. Well, maybe. I really don't need any more violet liqueur in the house. I'm actually a bit unclear about what Parfait Amour is supposed to taste like. A lot of the old (really old) recipes I've seen from distillers manuals are primarily orange flavored, with some spices and orris root (for violet-ish flavor). But, anyway, as good as the Jupiter can be, it probably isn't worth buying a whole bottle of whichever Parfait Amour you can find. You won't probably finish in your lifetime. Just order one out at a bar. Or make the Jupiter with Creme de Violette or Creme Yvette.

Generally, after opening, I only store wine based products in the fridge. (Well, homemade liqueurs, too, after opening.) Other people I know like to toss the low alcohol, neutral spirits based products in the fridge too, like Cynar and Aperol. I guess anything lower than 20%. Personally, I wouldn't put Averna in the fridge, but it is worth noting that any product based on the infusion of natural ingredients does have a semi-limited shelf life, which varies depending on the stability of the ingredients used.

Not to mention other transitory, sensory, or experiential forms of Art. His argument seems to boil down to rather pedestrian and classical definitions of Art.

Ultimately, I agree with Andy above, while writing a recipe may be a craft unto itself, it is not the written recipe itself which is intrinsically "crafty", but the interpretation and preparation of the recipe. More often than not, it is the execution of said recipe and presentation of the result which raises what is often a mere list of ingredients from the ordinary to the extraordinary.

An interesting topic, this article was recently brought to my attention. It contends that it is not really possible for "crafts" like cuisine and couture to be "serious" art. Food for thought ... Why cuisine or couture can never equal great art I kinda agree, kinda don't, but ultimately think it doesn't matter much either way. Or maybe I just don't care much for "serious" art. (OK, that was a lie, I really love serious art, but I don't like some aspects of the culture surrounding art which sometimes take it too seriously.)

Hm, that sort of made it sound like I was objecting to Cocchi Americano in this drink out of some sort of principle. No, that's not why, though it is true the drink was created with Lillet Blanc. It just isn't the principle, I've tried it both ways, and the drink really isn't very good with Cocchi Americano. I would like to try it, though, with some other Gentian aperitifs than Suze. Along those lines, Tempus Fugit Spirits are working on a bitter aperitif wine that was pretty fantastic in combination with their Gran Classico and Gin. I thought that white negroni variation kind of blew the Suze based "White Negroni" out of the water.

Nice job with the Pousse Cafe and welcome!

In my opinion, this is a cocktail you have to use Lillet Blanc for, not Cocchi Americano. It is a modern cocktail and it was created with the modern version of Lillet Blanc. Though, to be honest, not all classic cocktails are improved by using Cocchi Americano, either.