Mel Knox

I haven t heard of anybody scalping barrels, but over the years we have had to allocate barrels. It's always tricky because I don t want to turn down business but I want to take care of people who have taken care of me. Well, I have to read Parker, Tanzer, and the Spectator if only to see how my customers are doing in the ratings game. I also get Decanter, Wine, Wine and Spirits (both UK and US versions) along with Gourmet and Wine and Food. Practical Winery and Wines and Vines are also important. Needless to say I don t read all of them cover to cover. Bartering appeals to my Scottish nature. Since Jean Francois and I buy a barrel or two at the Hospices de Beaune every year I usually have plenty of things to trade. We have bought a barrel of Meursault every year for 10 yrs--usually Genevrieres, Boudot. So I do lots of trading with my barrel customers. I buy Burgundy on a random basis, esp Potel, lafarge, Burguet, and Engel.

TCA is a big subject these days. The cork people have been getting slammed so they have blamed it on us. And in some cases they may have a point, that low levels of TCA in the winery mean that any imperfection in the cork gives rise to big problems. I have been selling barrels since 1980 and have only seen four or five examples of wineries with real TCA problems. Barrrels can give TCA and TeCA problems under certain conditions: a)some cooperages spinkle the stacks of stave wood in the summer. If the water has too much chlorine in it... b)some mills treat wood used in construction with sprays that keep down mold. if this gets onto stave wood... c)problems in shipping... d)molds in the kiln dryer a, b and d are not potential problems for the cooperages I sell, but anybody can have a problem with c). We have seen two problems in 25 years...not the end of the world. One was definitely tied to shipping and the other equally so, I think. I last studied chemistry in the early 60s and was not the brightest in the class, but there are related problems. TBA, tri bromo chloride, can be just as bad as TCA. Woods treated with bromines can be used in shipping... Of course, the other big worry vis a vis cooperage : brettanomyces and its cousin dekkera. One time I was watching aGiants game with the staff of Saintsbury. Brett Butler got a hit and then winemaker Byron Kosuge cheered, Yeah Bret, Way to go. I commented that I had never heard a winemaker root for Brett before. Co-owner david Graves, responded, That's because Kevin Mitchell is on dekkera, mel. Well, my jokes are better than my science. I am probably the wrong person to discuss these issues when there are so many well trained winemakers who could do it well! How does the environment of the winery impact what is inside the barrel?? In the 90s various chateaux inBordeaux rebuilt their cellars with wood that had been treated with various anti mold products. The incessant off gassing of the wood finally got into the barrels and there were big problems. But I think that if there is a little mold here or there the insides of the barrel are safe. I visited Ramonet Prudhon in 1977. The walls were covered with mold. The floor looked like artifial Christmas tree snow. The heads of the barrels were moldy. The wine was friggin dynamite. Again, I am probably the wrong person to answer this question. If you asked anybody at a wine lab they would give you a CYA kind of answer: no guarantees, mate, unless you eliminate every source of possible contamination. Not 'cleaning' barrels: I have seen chateaux in Bordeaux that rinse their tanks with wine, burn some so2 and that's it. They feel that VA problems are less worrisome than mold contamination. Andre, I interviewed some winemakers on this subject long ago for Practical Winery and if you send me yr e mail address I will forward a copy.

icilabas: two guys just learning about 50 s technology...jim just got a cellphone! Jim Moore and his daughter put up a website: tell him i said to give you good deal! My Webpage: www.uvaggio.com as you can see i hardly know how to post let alone put up a website. My wife has a great website on her art: www.lizland.com i hope this works!

I first met Jim in the late 70s when he applied for job at the store where I worked. Since there was no job he did nt get it.Anyway, we got to know each other through Mondavi. In 97 we made Barbera. I had Jim incorporate some Oregon oak barrels into a barbera project. That sold very well so we made Nebbiolo. I thought the wine was so good we would become famous. Frankly we have made six vintages of fine nebbiolo (four barrels in 97, and around 20/yr for 98,99, 00, 01 and 02) and nobody seems to know or care. We are concentrating on inexpensive Barbera from Lodi, calloed il Gufo, with occasional efforts into arneis and rosato di barbera. We also have a nebbiolo/barbera blend called il Lupo. Cole s Chop House and the french Laundry just listed it so can't be too bad. Indeed sommeliers really like the fact that our wines go well with food and aren t too expensive.

As far as French oak is concerned there is a centuries long history of forestry management. Today for every board foot of oak cut down, three grow. This is a pretty good record. If there is a problem, it is getting really tight grained stave wood. Hungary also has a good record of forestry management. A forester in Hungary told me that they gorw 2.5 M# for every M3 (cubic meter) harvested. In this country softwood takes precedence as it grows faster. One person in the American oak business told me that when he started the minimum diameter for a log was 25 inches. Now it is 15 inches. There is a 1/1 ratio of wood growth to wood harvested. So common sense says prices will go up. One thing to remember: most of the forests in france are controlled by the state. The owners of private land follow the results of the auctions. In the USA hardwood forests are controlled by thousands of small landowners etc with relatively little (and certain different) government input. I would be a little worried about forestry management in China but I am not an authority on it. Maybe it would be better to talk to people in Bangladesh who get flooded because China is removing all the trees from the mountains above them.

I met Becky around 1976 through a lawyer named Phil Diamond. With Jim Olsen,with whom I then worked, they started Diamond Wine Merchants then. Becky would stay with my first wife and myself. Around 1980 she was staying with us on a barrel sales trip and fell very ill with the flu and so I said, Don t worry I will sell those barrels for you. I sold three containers in three weeks so we became partners.When she started to work with Kermit Lynch her partnership with Phil Diamond dissolved. Phil was the lawyer for Francois Freres USA until he retired. He is still active in running Diamond Wines. He served in WWII so you know he wasn t born yesterday. Still fit as a fiddle as they say. Anyway I bought her out around 1990. Becky is in love with selling Burgundy wines and I don t blame her. It's a terrible addiction tho. There is a book called Burgundy by Eunice Fried. Some folks call it Beckondy.It was out of date by the time it came out, as far as Becky is concerned. But it gives a great portrait of a time and place. Barry Bassin, depicted in the book as a genius, went bankrupt and stuck Becky and her Bordeaux partners with big debts. Becky is a fascinating and complex person. One story I love that she told me about herself: When she was a teenager in Manhattan she would save her allowance and use the money to buy caviar and balkan sobranie cigarettes, which she would enjoy alone in her room. She and her second husband Bart moved to Burgundy in May of 1968. They wanted to escape the tumult in the uSA...ha ha ha Of course they landed in the middle of the Second French revolution. They bought a property to renovate. In the meantime they rented a house in St Romain and got to know their neighbors, Jean and Noelle Francois. Jean had the idea of selling barrels in America and sent Becky to California. I am saving the juicy bits for my autobiography or for when i remember them, whichever comes first. For Becky the everyday is impossible and the impossible is easy.

Not as rude as you think, since many coopers in France are from Portugal. Millions of folks have moved to France from Portugal, Angola and Mozambique. About twelve yrs ago i attended a talk by an Englishman making wine in Portugal. Occasionally he had barrels made of Portuguese oak but there is not that much oak available. You can t run a cooperage biziness based on part time availability of logs. France is 40% forest as I recall and a third of it is oak. Anyway, His cellars were a bit warm so it was hard to judge the wood.

1/i am not a fan of toasty extremes...med plus is fine for me...heavy if the wood is 3 yrs air dried, but nothing light. But the quality of toast depends on the seasoning of the wood. 2/it's like asking how long should a piece of string be....i think for great vineyards 50 to 100 per cent new can be great...also depends on style and cepage...20% new for many zinfandels and barbera can be just right 3/Hungarian, when properly seasoned, can be quite similar to French. I have yet to see this with Russian. My theory is that you take a people who have been told that lying and cheating are important processes of the capitalistic system so when someboyd comes to build a stave mill they feel bad if they forget to lie, cheat and steal. 4/I guess it depends on the producers. Frankly, if you blend Francois or Taransaud with some crappy bourbon barrel you have wasted your money. I am re minded of a dinner I attended where each guest brought the course and the wine. I made a terrine with three kinds of meats and three kinds of eaux die vie in the gelatin. It was confusing. Sometimes it s best to go with one meat and one flavor in the sauce. Sometimes blending works great. I knew a guy who made a sauv blanc from grapes grown all over Napa, in all kinds of barrels and tanks, and it worked out great. But his chardonnay never went anywhere. 5/Sizes: the larger the barrel the slower the development of the wine...sometimes this is good and cometimes bad. Sometimes what you think of reduction is really barrel taste.I know a grower in Volnay who switched from 228 L bbls to 350L...We tasted his Meursault and Volnay while he was cogitating over the whole thing. The wine in the 228 L was quite traditionally Burgundian with a lot of reductive qualities. In the 350 L the fruit stood out and the reductive qualities (roasted coffee in the red) went away. It was just a question of barrel size. I am a big fan of larger barrels but the logistics and back strain issues are quite important. If one has the barrel racks etc for larger barrels, a la Dehlinger, they can work very well.

Most winemakers are happy when we provide good consistent products and ask us to leave the winemaking to them. But that does not stop us from mouthing off on the subject:: Some random thoughts: 1. People drink merlot because it is smooth. If they want to age a wine, they buy cabernet. Therefore I think wellseasoned, tight grained wood is really important for merlot. Otherwise the wine can be rough. It is no accident that Taransaud sells lots of barrels to people who grow Merlot, whether in Pomerol/St Emilion or in California. 2. In the mid 90s Taransaud had lots of well seasoned wide grained staves with the length for wine barrels. Practical experiments showed that these barrels worked well with: cool climate chardonnay...i also make a chardonnay with Eric Hamacher in oregon. It's called 'Cuvee Forets Diverses' because the staves come from all over France spicy reds: Barbera, Zinfandel, Syrah Mountain Cabernet...the sweet vanillins go well with robust reds... Long seasoning is really important for wide grained staves. Otherwise the wine gets astringent. 3. For Pinot Noir, one must consider the wine and the aging regimen. For great grand cru Burgundies 100% new oak and lots of time in barrel is the order of the day. This means 3 yr air dry, which is something francois Freres does for clients like Drouhin and DRC. But for lighter wines maybe only one third will be new, so the wood is two yr air dry. 4. Both Pinot Noir and Sangiovese are sponges for oak but Sangiovese can reflect the wood awkwardly. We have found that the Italians who use larger containers knew what they were doing. We use 400 Liter bbls and they work very well. I have to go sell barrels now, back around 530..

I think it is easier to ask questions than answer them. But I will try to do my part. First, maybe you should try our L Uvaggio di Giacomo Arneis...fermented in older barrels so as to preserve the fruit and complexity of the wine. Or try our Barberas and Nebbiolos, aged in oak but not dominated by it. Our Sangiovese in aged in 400 liter (105 gallon) puncheons made of tight grained 3 yr air dried center of france oak, about 20% new every year. Our first wine was a 97 Barbera, 16% alc with 3 grams of rs..it sold out instantly. We have tried to make wines in a more balanced manner, but some days I am ready to sell out and go for the gold! I see so many wines where the wood sits on the wine. We try to provide barrels that allow the wine to speak. With Ici La bas we make white wines that are 100% new oak and when they are young they are a little much. But we feel our wines have the structure to age, like white Burgundies can. Our 98s and 99 are tasting great now. These wines have been praised in England and in France whereas they hardly drew a notice here. Since we don t make much wine (600 cs red, 200 cs white) we can afford to wait until the wine is half way drinkable before it is released. We have just released our 2001 pinots and our 2002 chardonnays. About every six months some writers tosses off a column about how he hates oaky wines and then lists ten wines he really likes. Invariably these are wines made in my barrels. This leads me to believe the writer likes good wood, properly used. When I first got into the wine business, a good wine shop had a row or two of Bordeaux, a row or two of Burgundy, some Rhones, some Loire wine, Alsace and a row or two of german wines, plus California and Italy. We sold German wines like there was no tomorrow. For a while there it seemed like people were going from 24 flavors to 2...maybe we are going back to 24. Diversity is what makes wine fun. About high alcohol high extract wines are concerned: when drinking these with a meal they can be too much, but then 200 yrs ago people drank Madeira all day long so let's not get too hoity toity. One hundred years ago sauternes was the rage. A guy in my freshman dorm (one of the weirdos who studied)became a history professor and wrote a book called the Alcoholic Republic. Evidently people (man woman and child)averaged about a quart of applejack per day in the USA of 1800. A friend of mine pointed out to me that a lot of people drink these powerful industrial strength elixirs in lieu of cocktails. About Cognac, etc: if you age Bourbon in French barrels it tastes like Cognac but Cognac aged in American oak bbls tastes like Bourbon. In all our winemaking ventures we emphasize the compatability with fine dining. What people do with the barrels I sell them is their own concern, as long as the check clears the bank! Some of them, having decided to go for the gold, may put their amps on 11.

No wood No Good! First of all, Clendenen has his straight jackets custom made in Thailand so only his tailor knows for sure. Second, Parker and Tanzer have both mentioned Taransaud and Francois Freres in their reviews and it has n' t hurt a bit. When Parker first raved about some wines made in these bbls Francois was well known but Taransaud was not. I went from selling all the barrels in my allocation to having a waiting list. Third, I think thast when one tastes 200 wines a day, wines that are bitter, excessively tannic, etc get bad scores and wines that have the rich sweet flavor of properly seasoned oak are bound to do better. So, I think it is the question of using the right barrels (ie mine) and not bad ones, ie my competitors'.

French forests have been managed for nearly ten centuries. For many years the goal was to produce a everything from firewood to wood for the French navy. As the navy has switched to steel and people use gas and heating oil to warm their homes, management strategy has changed. Every September the French forestry office, the ONF, holds auctions. Wood brokers, mill operator and coopers bid on various lots of trees still standing in the forests. The forests are managed for a profit and for the common good. Right now for every board foot of oak harvested in a year, three grow. Recently I attended an event in the Troncais forest. During the reign of Louis XIV the minister Colbert had this forest planted for the French navy. Under the eyes of a direct descendant of Colbert (there was quite a family resemblance,it was quite amazing) the last trees planted centuries ago were cut down. Forests in the west of France, around the city of Limoges, are called Limousin. These forests are planted mostly with quercus robur, whose wood tends to be wide grained. This is the classic oak tree with the wide crown. This wood is usually used for Cognac. As it is higher in tannins than other oaks, the wood must be dried longer or it tastes astringent. Forests in the east of France, in the Vosges Mountains, are oak forests. These woods have been used for barrels since the early 80s. Coopers say that these oaks impart their tannins quickly but that at the end of six months the results are fairly similar to Nevers and Allier. Center of France/Nevers: To the south, west and southeast of Paris are some very important forest regions: Nevers/Nievre: Between the town of Nevers and the Cote d Or are many important forests, such as Bertranges. Allier: forests such as St palais, Troncais, Allogny. Sarthe (near Le Mans): Jupilles near paris: Fontainebleau, HQ of the ONF...many trees were knocked down during the windstorms of 1999/2000... These forests tend towards tight grained and are perhaps the 'sweetest' of all the forests. Nevers could be said to have a little more 'structure' ie more tannic than Allier.

← ← Jim: Describing Jim Clendenen is even harder than describing french and American oak. Jim and I share a philosphy that wine should be drunk with a meal, but should not replace it. We try to make wines that combine elegance and power, but not one at the expense of the other. Finally, we make wines that improve in the bottle. As far as oak integration is concerned, I think there are several factors: a)air drying...we use 3 yr air dry b)alcohol and acid levels of wine...we don't wait for 16% potential before picking. We pick around 13% alc potential and usually have good acids. One sees a lot of wines on the market with 15.5%/16.5% alc...This is 20% higher than our efforts. Alcohol is a solvent and pulls oak out of the barrel. The lower alcohols and higher acids emphasize the tannins, which is what you see in Burgundy. c)Time...Both in barrel and in bottle there are times when the oak dominates. After several years in bottle the oak will subside (assuming there is something in the wine besides oak!) and the fruit etc will come out. If you taste Leroy or DRC wines out of barrel, you won't miss the oak. Our fermentation techniques are nothing special. We don t do experiments since we only make 1000 cs per year. I can't answer yr questions re cold maceration etc with any data. However, I think the crucial issues are the ones I have discussed. Marcassin and Loring: Every time the Francois' taste Marcassin wines out of barrel they shout that Helen and John are geniuses. When they taste ici La Bas out of barrel they look at Jim and me and wonder how they got into business making wine with us. Later, when they drink the wine out of bottle with their buddies in St Romain, they delight in serving the wine blind and making everybody guess what it was. One time several famous winemakers got into an argument over whether our 99 chard was puligny or chassagne...I enjoyed that. I think it is fair to say that Helen and John have different philosophies from ours except that we all want to make wines that astonish. The wines are occasionally available in Japan. Ditto England, france, Switzerland and Germany. England (Berry Brothers Rudd) is one of our best accounts anywhere.

Describing flavors is one of those writing exercises that tests one's abilities. The usual response is to say that French/European oak is more subtle and American oak is more vanillin, in your face. This is because of species differences rather than the presence of foie gras round the table in St Romain and BBQ ribs in Missouri. But air drying makes a big difference. Until 15 yrs ago most american oak was kiln dried. The results with air dried american oak are much closer to french oak than to traditional american kiln dried. Here is one way to see the differences between French and American oak is to compare Bourbon and Cognac. The Bourbon is aged in 100 per cent new American oak and the Cognac is aged in french oak of various ages. Or try young zins from Scherrer zinfandel (pretty much all french) and Ridge, pretty much all American. I represent three cooperages: Taransaud: all the wood is certified air dried twelve months for every 100 mm of stave thickness. This seasoning is especially important for wines kept in barrel longer than 12 months. I always say why hire a vineyard manager when you are going to use barrels that just sit on the wine?? Taransaud bbls support the wine, but do not dominate it. Francois Freres: Both two and three year air dry are available. This cooperage is renowned for a barrel that is both toasty and elegant at the same time. Francois Hungary: In 1999 the Francois' bought half of a cooperage and stave mill in Hungary from a family that escaped state-sponsored terrorism in 1956 and returned when the Iron Curtain fell. The Molnars were on the right path and the help the Francois' have provided have speeded up the learning curve. As more and more properly seasoned oak is available, the results get better and better.

Jim Clendenen and I have purchased grapes from Montinore and White Rose, both of which have chosen to make more wine and sell fewer grapes. Right now we are working with the Elke family in Boonville. We bought chardonnay grapes from the Denisons but this year all they had was two bins. We have really become enamored of the Anderson Valley, which is like the best of Oregon and California: a)cool climate b)but south of september/october storms that can screw things up. What I like about both regions is that one gets flavor ripe grapes at relatively low sugars. The low alcohol levels mean that less oak is extracted from the barrel...perhaps more of the good stuff and less of the bad. When you see how many variations there are between vineyards 'terroir' becomes a difficult concept to discuss. Re toasting in Washington state: You might look at my note as to how toasting and air drying are linked. I have concentrated on the Evergreen state the past few years. I think wineries are responding well to the well seasoned barrels I offer. The toasting comes across as more subtle due to the longer air drying. Another issue is when the barrel is filled. One winery got med toast barrels in March and did not like the results. If you put 'Clean' wine in new barrels the oak can be a bit overwhelming. This year they got med plus barrels in January.