Capaneus

Now *that* is one wrigly can o' worms... Standard... Well, what Katie said. Additionally, the old-timey rule of thumb was "200% markup on wholesale". Never actually happened anywhere, but that was what we claimed we were looking for. Of course, in Philadelphia, because of the PLCB system, that meant pretty nearly three times retail - and high retail at that. Reality these days is that many places come in at *over* 200% markup, often by close to 100%. So when I read your question, my first response was "Oh. Decent prices, actually". Not that I would choose to pay them.

In terms of immediate revenue, I think the three bells will do fine. But Starr is creating a brand, and there I think the top-Philly-Steakhouse accolade would have made a big difference. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see the wine list retrofitted, and LaBan acknowledging this with an ensuing bell-tuning.

I find it easier, somehow, to look at it as "Betrayed by my Species". Bad taste is the Universal Common Denominator. For what it's worth, I have found over the years that women tend to have the better palate, and now I find that they are quickly bridging the education/intimidation/bullcrap gap as well.

Usually. Whether I'd choose to use those exact terms is another matter. Personally, I find the palate isn't so much the limiting factor in my wine expertise. It is my memory that often fails me; and I find that while accurately describing a wine is relatively easy, the ability to put those perceptions in context is really the challenge. So while I could handily pick out strawberry/cherry notes in a wine, I don't think I could differentiate between different vintages, or different producers, of Burgundy. Broader distinctions, yes, but I don't have the sort of meticulous memory it takes to go much beyond that. Nor do I cultivate it: my academic experience has taught me that the dissected object is most often killed in the process.

Never dropped anything worth remembering myself. But I once shared the purchase of a bottle of '93 Royal Tokaji Wine Company tokay essencia with a friend. He cellared it. About a week later, I got a call from him: would I please come over; he'd dropped the bottle, and we would want to drink the salvaged third soonest. Delicious.

That'd be Chez Colette and I had a lovely lunch there not too long ago. There's also L'Hexagon, but that's more of a Eurotrash bar scene than a bistro. I thought they did serve food though. ← Do tell! I noticed a reasonable-sounding prix fixe on the posted menu some time back, but I've heard such mixed reports about Chez Colette that I haven't made it there yet...

I did go. Caribou Cafe is in fact a pretty authentic bistro, and a decent one. Still, the best thing about it was the wine list: a great many bottles in the $25 to $40 range that were well chosen bargains, reasonably marked up. The food... the food was good, but it didn't wow me. Good solid honest fare, and (except for the over-$20 steak frites) reasonably priced. For my cassoulet, I get a friend who commutes to NY to bring me takeout from Les Halles. And I try to make my own, with varying success.

Yup. It's how I buy just about anything over $20. Only way for me to lay down a case of Port is to buy single-quintas in undeclared vintages. In general I stay away from popular producers and Sexy Vintages. Although in '88 through '90 I got something like ten cases of Bordeaux, deuxieme crus and below. Just finishing them, and I want more... To be fair to folks, it's a heck of a lot more homework to buy this way. If you can afford it, why not pay a premium for the convenience? Every penny spent on Petrus and assorted Richebourgs is a penny not driving up *my* costs...

I hate Merlot as well. Yet another mass produced plonk varietal that is subject to tremendous oak abuse. This is not to say that all Merlot wines are bad. I'm not gonna condemn the entire Bordeaux region, of course. But I'd say most of the Merlot produced on this planet is pretty gross. ← Bordeaux thanks you, I thank you, and common sense... well, it's on vacation, clearly, but it would probably be thankful as well. The problem with with your formulation, and with this discussion (as I see it, of course) is that 99% of *everything* is crap. Look at your wine industry statistics: the overwhelming majority of wine is marketed at price points most of us don't even look at - and I'm *not* speaking of Screaming Eagle! Most wine around the world is sold at prices barely above Welch's, and drunk with little more thought. And the same argument applies to most Art, and most Literature... and most Cabernet Sauvignon; and most white Burgundy (and the red while we're at it)... DOC wine is a barely discernible percent of the industry, and the overwhelming majority of all wine produced even in those areas is purest plonk. The stuff we love and discuss is, from the get-go, a tiny if tasty little bubble afloat in a massive flood of purpley-grapey sewage. Yet we choose to speak of Chardonnay and Merlot as if they were somehow exceptional in being very rarely any good. They're not. I love German Rieslings, despite the fact that finding good ones I can afford is a never-ending struggle. Cabernets are even harder, because they are so much more sought after. Yet most of us, for whatever reason, will simply not concede the same effort is worthwhile when it comes to these two varietals. It's possible the difference stems from something other than knee-jerk prejudice, but I for one cannot see how that case might be made. And if California Pinot becomes somehow debased by this publicity I'll cry. I find more bargains in that category these days than anywhere else in the wine store (with the possible exception of Iberian reds).

Not those two specifically. But over the last couple of years I have tried many. I haven't always loved every one, but the choices for the Chaiman's Selections are always at least credible - and the prices are a bargain, comparatively speaking. And in the past I have liked both Cline and Clos du Val.

Actually, it's not just experience: some people are much more sensitive than others to TCA taint. I myself seem to fall into the insensitive camp: if asked, I would have to admit that I have never been aware of corking, as such, in anything I've ever drunk - which, over several thousand bottles, is highly improbable. I *have* been aware of many bottles that just didn't measure up to my expectations, and suspect that they were corked, but I never smelled wet cardboard or tasted anything like what's usually described. Having said that, if you are employed as a sommelier, you pretty much are required to be able to tell. As to bad experiences... Recently I had a wine steward who seemed to be wedded to the notion of serving me pinot noir, even though it was an extensive list and I had asked for something unusual. Got the feeling he was afraid of taking a chance on me not knowing what I was saying. A couple of years back I went to one of Philly's poshest spots for a nightcap. I decided to splurge, and ordered a glass of the '63 Fonseca. When it came, it tasted pretty much like a midrange Ruby Port, which told me it had been opened too long. I asked for a replacement glass, and, to their credit, the sommelier brought one over quickly. Since they allowed me to keep the original glass, we at the table compared the two, and included the som. in the tasting. He had to concede the enormous difference, but instead of copping to keeping a bottle around too long he gave me a story about British versus Portuguese bottlings, and bottle variation. I would have preferred the straight poop. Those are about it. I usually have a good experience with wine service. I think that's in part because I tend to ask for the stuff on the list they like/love, but which I might not be familiar with, and make it clear that I prize their advice. Encountered some fascinating stuff that way.

I personally know nothing of it, and given the amount of work I'm currently putting into Germans I'm afraid to. Vinarium.com has the following to say about the winery: http://www.vinarium-austria.com/www/en/win..._Tinnacher.html If you use Advanced Google Search, and set it to filter for English Language Only, you get 30-some results.

Many of my favorites have been mentioned (Kim Crawford SB, Pierre Sparr gewurtz). As far as bang-per-buck, though: I get Aveleda Vinho Verde for US$3.49 per (by the case). Light, a bit fizzy, low alcohol, goes with many light dishes - or none. You won't feel compelled to write tasting notes. But you'll probably open another the next evening.

"The Union" is an accurate but insufficient accunt of the problem. The fact, ultimately, is that there is very no political constituency for doing away with a sizable center of power in Pa politics. Wine drinkers aren't numerous, even if we do carry more clout that just numbers. For politicians, as with the Parking Authority, the Convention Center and PGW, the revenue of the State Stores is almost beside the point. The real power in all these bureaucracies lies in the patronage, and the favors it gives you to bestow - and to recall when needed. Those who have control of these grow dependent on them, and those who don't covet them. No one wants to do away with them. *Still*, we are forcing change. Anyone who has shopped at PLCB stores for any period of time has noticed the improvement. In fact, on a (very few) items, we get great deals. And last Summer the Board seemed to be in play for the first time ever. Sure, it was probably just a feint by Fumo, but even that would have been inconceivable a few years ago.

For the former, you should spend more time in the Spain and Portugal section of your local store. For the latter... there's some. Zins and such.

1) Yes 2) Yes 3) Yes *please* 4) c part 1; wouldn't say part 2, necessarily 5) a for development, b for balance. Sorry. 6) b (yay! Pedro learns to Play Well With Others) 7) All of the Above. There are wines in both categories at each price point. (I knew I couldn't keep it up) 8) Part of the mix. Fine if the mix continues to include Really Rough Amarone. Otherwise may the Devil take them all I'm sure a competent Psychologist would have a field day with me. Lucky thing there's so few of those.

Thank you. And I never said you were *good* . Just that you cared , which you clearly do. That's actually something to ponder, if we chose to take it seriously. A *skilled* winemaker is a wonderful thing - if they choose to use their powers for Good. But a winemaker with *soul* can always learn technique.

Several of the points I might have made have been stated, better than I might. So just a couple of additional points. -Jason's "Wine With Food" motto only hints at something Jancis Robinson has been big on recently: that this is no longer the case for many people, in many situations. More and more, the wine is being asked to stand on its own as a sensory experience, and for that, many of the leaner Old World styles just don't work (not all, not even most, and not entirely). You need more concentration, more extraction, higher glycerin. And New World wines are well suited to this. -Terroir can be fully as fully expressed in the New as in the Old World styles, I think. The difference is mostly in the *nature* of the terroir, and what that means in terms of winemaking. The Cal climate means that much higher levels of concentration can be achieved naturally, and kept in balance by a skilled winemaker. And this is a very attractive style. So folks in colder climates feel pressure to come up with wines for which their regions are not well suited. And then you find people manipulating the wine to such an extent that the result can become almost plastic in feel, entirely artificial tasting. In the end, I like both styles. I like big Zins, I like Burgundies very much. What I don't like is the rush to homogeneization we call Parkerization. To me, the best example of the problem is an appelation I always felt was one of the best-kept secrets in the wine world: Cornas. I've drunk them for decades, and for decades I paid a pittance for huge, tannic, singular wines with more genuine personality than the average politician. Then a few years ago Jean-Luc Colombo"discovered" Cornas, and introduced "modern", "clean" winemaking. And more and more of the wines I buy each year are... lessened. Pithed, trepanned, lobotomized. Castrated, emasculated. I want to be able to buy Cal wines, and to have caring winemakes such as Mary husbanding them. It's just that I don't want Cal winemaking to spread to Cornas, to Tuscany, to Bordeaux (what's a St. Emilion Garagiste but someone who wanted to make Cal wines without leaving France?). California and Australia are suited by nature to producing these wines. Everyone else should be making the wines their terroir dictates. Otherwise we'll lose much that is wonderful. Unless global warming continues, and vintages like 2003 pop up more often. Then all bets are off.

I saw Shola just before Christmas - he popped in to Rouge and said hello. We created a new dessert idea together- a Moscato Float with the yummy Lemon-Brie Ice Cream he makes. Yow! I can hardly wait to actually try that with him. It has potential to be truly awe inspiring. He is well and busy doing the catering in NYC thing a few days per week, but StudioKitchen is still very much an ongoing concern in the present tense. He hasn't mentioned any plans to move, at least to me. We could certainly try and arrange an eGullet outing sometime in February perhaps. Anyone else interested? ← Very much so.

Actually, they've e-mailed me with a couple of "Special Event" type tasting menus, so I think that might be something they do semi-frequently> Also, I had a thought: in a past life, before everyone I know moved to NY or SF, we used to organize dinners where we would reserve a (largeish) table, agree with the restaurant on a per-head budget, and then have the chef put together a tasting menu - usually stuff not on their regular menu, and on the risque side of the palate. Would anyone be into doing something like that? I figure we would need a minimum of six (on an early-week night, usually, to make the restaurant's logistics work out).

You did read that Starr and Samuelsson parted ways, as of last week. If you check Michael Klein's columns in the Inky for that period he goes into the Official Reasons, which I don't recall. And to answer the OP's question: MS was nominally the Executive Chef. In practice, I think one of the problems was precisely the fact that he never invested the time and attention the restaurant required, and was, in effect, just a consultant. My experiences there were not very good, and that is in line with most of what I hear. And why so surprised? Starr seems to be moving in a food-and-celebrity (rather than concept-) oriented direction with most of his new projects: Portale at the reopened Striped Bass, Morimoto at Morimoto...

This is something that's been a problem (and topic of ever-ongoing debate) for years here in Philadelphia. We have one of the worst wine-retail situations in the country, because the State govt. directly manages wine and liquor sales. Because of this, and because of a relatively stodgy restaurant scene, our markups have long been on the leading edge of industry practice. We bitched, we moaned, we went to NYC, we dined at home. So now we have these things called BYOBs - restaurants that carry *no* wine or liquor. They're often the venue for new chefs when they're ready to strike out on their own. Because the price of a license ($75k in Philly), and the cost of wine inventory are a large part of the typical startup capital, it's a much less risky proposition for someone jumping into a notoriously merciless business, especially because they also tend to be on the informal, cute/homey end of the decor spectrum. So now we have a wave of restaurants that we can bring wine to, and the Philly food scene is jumping, and I can afford the sort of experiences I never could with traditional restaurants. As a side note, these things seem to often be run by husband-wife teams, don't know why. My question is why there isn't a similar trend in NY. Granted, you don't have the problem with licensing and distribution, but reducing the startup price by the value of a wine cellar has to be appealing to some of the new young Turks. And NYC surely could support a few of them just on the strength of wine fanatics alone, I'd think? And on an entirely other topic, the argument that "we make our profit on wine sales" brings me to a fast boil: why are wine drinkers being asked to subsidize other people's experience? It smacks of yet another backhanded "Sin Tax". As far as I'm concerned, restaurants can charge whatever they feel they have to. But now I have an alternative, and I'm using it. And you should hear old-line Philadelphia restaurateurs bleating sadly about it... Balm for my long-gouged heart.

I can't speak authoritatively (Deidre can), but in my experience the individual stores have only *very* limited awareness of incoming shipments. In her post above Deidre seemed to indicate they wouldn't be getting this new shipment until next week. I think it's entirely possible the person you spoke to wasn't informed about this new allocation, and basically just told you they had none. Anyway, I apologize if I'm off, but I'd hate to see you miss out because you'd given up based on incomplete information.

Mmm, that's true that Philly pizza-- at least the good stuff-- is thin crust. So if you don't like that style, you're outta luck: try Chicago, I guess. Or maybe the bakery pizzas (Sarcone's tomato pie, for instance), which have a thicker crust. ← capaneus, what do you mean by 'usw?' also, i agree with andrew: try sarcone's on 9th below fitzwater, or cacia's at 15th & ritner. i don't know if you'll like it or not, or if it's what you're looking for, but it's not thin crust (and you might like the stuff anyway, even if it's not what you're looking for, because it's good). ← "usw" is the german version of "etc": stands for "und so weider" (hope I got that right, or there go the pedantry bonus points). If you mean just in this instance... I guess mostly the sauce, the seasoning or something. My first exposure to pizza was in NY, and when I moved here, I was never able to enjoy the local stuff. I have had Sarcone's, and Taconelli's, and all the other obvious candidates. Still like my pizza pie better up there. And by thick I don't mean Chicago-style. Too much is too much. For the poster who wanted Soviet-era food (just kidding)... There are sizable Eastern-European immigrant communities in the Northeast. I've been on a couple of guided tours with friends, but I'm afraid I'm weak on the specifics. Maybe if you start a thread someone will pitch in.

First: welcome, Capaneus! (I like your handle: are you part of the Seven against Philadelphia?) I'd partially agree: I'd like a really good Thai restaurant, that does more than just pad thai. My feeling is that pad thai is like pizza: you can get decent stuff just about anywhere. And there are a bunch of okay Thai joints (the eponymous Pad Thai is about the best IMO, and Vientiane-- whether it's Thai or something else-- is good too); nothing outstanding, though. But I haven't seen anything that's close to what you can get in, say, Seattle. Moving on, I can swear we had a thread like this a while back. I'll repeat what I said then: I'd love a good Carolina-style barbecue place. I'll second the sad lack of Spanish restaurants as well. ← Thank you for the welcome. My intro to Capaneus was actually from Dante, via Blake's woodcut. Something about a pain-in-the-neck strapped to a rock and getting zapped every time he refuses to cry "uncle" resonated. And pad thai like pizza... I haven't really found good pizza in Philly either. Or not good pizza in the style I prefer: thick crust usw. Pad Thai - the restaurant - has never done it for me. Their stuff is pretty bland (not just heat-wise. All the flavoring seems to be muted, to my palate), and they offer nothing decent to drink. Pet peeve, that: how hard is it to offer *one* good beer or decent cheap wine? Yet most places can't carry the feat off. As to the sacrifice... I'm not sure I'd be willing to give up much. After all, NY is a couple of hours away. And I notice everyone else only seems willing to give up stuff they *don't* much like, so I feel I'm in good company.