Nathan

Needless to say, there were people dining at Ducasse at the Essex House every night. I think it would be revealing to take a sample of Ducasse's customers and a sample of Per Se's customers and compare them by asking a series of questions to determine which group is more knowledgeable about food, better traveled, more experienced at dining out at top-level restaurants in New York, the US, around the world, etc. The results might be surprising to you, Nathan. ← at a guess....the Ducasse diners. (more international travelers and even more affluent than the average Per Se diners)....but if I'm right on that it only goes to my point.

I never understood that argument. NY-style pizza is a style all of its own...and Mozza is not in that style. Mozza did not need to be compared to NY pizzerias. ← There isn't just one New York style of pizza. Bruni said that Mozza serves "the thin-crust pizza of Naples," and he cited at least one NYC restaurant that (he says) does so too. So apparently he thought the comparison was relevant.Then again, if you're writing in the NYT about a style of pizza NYC doesn't have, that would be rather important to point out. But he wasn't making that claim. ← of course there's a NY style of pizza! whatever are you talking about? (that NY serves other styles as well is irrelevant)

I never understood that argument. NY-style pizza is a style all of its own...and Mozza is not in that style. Mozza did not need to be compared to NY pizzerias.

like who? when it comes to the relative rankings of NY 4-star restaurants (as well as restaurants with 4-star aspirations)...there are as many varying opinions as there are critics.

this, of course, is purely anecdotal...yet I think most would report the same. I know a lot of people who dine well...they might not be foodies...and I might not agree with their preferences (often Aureole and the like)...Per Se was always on their radar....Ducasse? nope. too "stuffy", too French. too expensive (not that they couldn't afford it..but in terms of perceived value). they knew of it...but didn't think about it. that's the reality of NY dining. and the proof is in its closing.

Hill Country immediately stood out from the other purveyors yesterday (Brother Jimmy's and the like...I didn't see Dinosaur) as they actually brought a portable smoker. despite this obvious clue...there was no line at Hill Country...while Dallas Jones had a long line. Hill Country was offering a massive pile of fatty brisket along with a whole Kreuz sausage for $10. a real bargain.

#2. EO is not in the top cocktail echelon. its as simple as that (they freepour..etc.). I'd rank it about the same as Angel's Share. D&C and PDT are the way to go.

furthermore, if Robuchon changed the sous chef at Atelier tomorrow...does that automatically necessitate a re-review?

Alain Ducasse overall has been named in New York Time coverage more than Thomas Keller, or even Mario Batail. So if New York Times readers are reading the New York Times, they will have heard of Ducasse plenty. Of course, the nine tenths of New York Times readers who don't even look at restaurant articles at all aren't relevant, so when we say "most" it doesn't really mean very much. According to the New York Times archive: -Alain Ducasse: 387 articles mentioning his name -Mario Batali: 332 articles mentioning his name -Thomas Keller: 256 articles mentioning his name In terms of time and subject distribution, of course there are fewer articles about Alain Ducasse at the Essex House post-opening-phase than there were during the opening phase. That's also true of every restaurant. However, Ducasse at the Essex House received a greater frequency of coverage than most even on a long timeline. In part that's because the drama of the opening lasted about three years. In addition, Ducasse opened Mix with Chodorow, bringing his operations back into the spotlight. Then Mix closed, with some controversy surrounding that. And then there were the two chef changes at the Essex House, both of which generated coverage. So, I think it is fundamentally incorrect to say Ducasse was never talked about post-opening, and not at all relevant whether most New York Times readers have heard of Ducasse because the proper standard is who are New York Times readers more likely to have read about in the New York Times. The answer there is Ducasse by a 51.172% margin over Keller. And even I was surprised that Ducasse has had more play in the Times than Batali, at least as a person (much harder to evaluate which articles were about which restaurants, since some of Ducasse's restaurants have his name in them). ← I don't buy this. how many of these articles were about Ducasse at the Essex House (you have to exclude all other articles about Ducasse and ones concerning Mix)? edit: if you reread my contention above you'll find that it was explicitly about that specific restaurant....of course Ducasse has come up many times in the past 25 years in Times coverage!

Jean Georges for dinner is the best restaurant in your price range. it's not stuffy. as others have noted...they don't serve lunch on the weekends.

they're now claiming September 1st. obviously they massively jumped the gun and have claimed numerous dates...so we'll see.

only its opening was a media event. it simply wasn't talked about after that. and I find it highly likely that most NY Times readers have barely heard of Ducasse...if at all.

thanks everyone for your advice. it looks like we'll be hitting Southwark and Ansill (in either order) followed by Chick's tomorrow night....

what are the hours? I'll be in tomorrow night...

personally I agree on one level. but I think it's a vast overstatement to say that it was "[t]he most written- and talked-about restaurant of its time." most NY foodies never ate there and didn't talk about it either. neither was it heavily blogged...written about (other restaurants certainly received more press)... NY restaurants in the same timeframe with more notoriety certainly included Per Se (by a massive margin), Babbo (probably the most talked about restaurant in terms of the general population), Gilt (among foodies), Jean-George...etc. the number of people who found ADNY important was pretty small...and frankly, probably didn't include most NY foodies or restaurant people. (wrongly so) most affluent NY diners saw ADNY as being in the La Grenouille line of things...not a place they wanted to eat.

the 8th annual Blues and BBQ party is this Sunday at the pier at 14th street (west side) from 2-9. Hill Country and Dinosaur are among the purveyors.

but...it wasn't one of the top-two restaurants in NY. it was a three star restaurant. otherwise every three star restaurant that changed a chef could expect an immediate re-review. which doesn't make sense. there are too many of them. (its irrelevant whether ADNY deserved to be a three star restaurant. what matters, from the point of internal consistency, is that is what it was)

due to the much lauded Il Posto Accanto being closed...I stumbled in here last night. at one level its a lot like the various bistro-esque restaurants that have been in the far reaches of the EV for years....Casimir, 26 Seats, Flea Market. the menu is similar, the AvroK design is not. of course, the dishes at E.U. are far more elegantly composed (and expensive) than those places...but the proteins are similar. the differences are in the accompaniments...which are polished and well-executed. its sort of the restaurant Uovo was trying to be...except E.U. is better capitalized. the one remarkable dish was the grilled octopus....yeah, it came with preserved lemon and terrific greenmarket tomatoes...but those were unnecessary. unlike 95% of the octopus served in this city..it was neither chewy nor rubbery...and aggressively seasoned....reminded me a lot of the octopus at Sabry in Astoria. this kitchen's relaxed and lazy...if it can cook octopus like that...it can stretch a lot more.

Well, whew, then I, as a non-New Yorker, won't mind asking: what was the fate of Marika? Or, is it still around? ← see above...Marika became Compass...which supposedly was a rather good restaurant (the chef just left) at one point...they had a $35 prix fixe dinner. I never made it because it closed obscenely early during the week and the odds of my being on the UWS on the weekend were almost nonexistent.

well...the main draw of the sausages is that they're from the Kreuz Market itself. I do think the jalapeno ones are very good...but certainly cooking sausages well doesn't take much... its the sourcing that stands out...not the cooking.

I didn't know that! never heard of Marika... of course, Compass was under the special circumstance of critics looking desperately for something to write about on the UWS.... but that obviates my point doesn't it? I tried to eat once at Compass but this whole uncivilized thing of shutting down the kitchen at 9 P.M. on a weeknight (you'd think that the UWS had been transposed with Delray Beach)

yup

to me the key part is that it would have been 4 reviews in 5 years for ADNY...which I think other restauranteurs could rightfully be irked about.

www.etatsunisrestaurant.com/index2.htm

nothing. the proprietor of Clear Creek (not Asimov) states that he doesn't like his product being used in cocktails...