Rebel Rose

My guess is copper, but it could be a number of things. There's a more complete reply on the Wine 101: Sulfites thread. And don't worry about gullet gaffes . . . a forum host will guide you if you stray off the path. And after all, wine reviews here do include positive and negative notes!

Wow. I wish they did have a test for that! Unfortunately, there are so many compounds in wine that vary with the vineyard, vintage, and winemaking program. If you consistently find that wines from a certain producer or area give you headaches, it is probably due to something in the winemaking process, but it could be a concentration of tannin, which produces a histamine reaction, it could be copper, it could even be natural acids or phenolics that are present in the wine in a higher density than at other times. There's also the complication that higher alcohols and acids may amplify your reaction to something. I occasionally get the headbangers myself, and from a small amount of wine. We have an old family friend who is always bringing us wine from one of his favorite zinfandel producers. The stuff gives me a raging headache, but he loves it! I can't say no, because he knows the winemaker personally, each new wine is like a baby bird leaving the nest . . . he pours me some wine and hands it to me with this happy, expectant look every time. (I've learned not to quaff it, at any rate!) The wine really is good, so I enjoy a few sips, and then since I'm usually cooking, I just desert my glass in hopes it will get kidnapped. "Oh my goodness, where did my glass go? And look, the bottle's empty."

Hello, Lenndevours! Welcome to the wine forum, and thank you for posting that interesting pairing. I'm getting some new ideas for things to try with sushi. Now if I just knew how to make it . . .

No, I haven't seen that, but it makes sense. I have seen a winemaker trying to stir a barrel sample in a tiny INAO tasting glass with a 3/4", 4 foot copper stick. Talk about an exercise in delicacy. Next time he tries that I'll just say, "Why don't you just use a penny?"

I love sake with sushi--served cool in a little wooden box. Maybe we should have a sake thread? I also enjoy Cloudy Bay Sauvignon Blanc with sushi. I haven't really cared for riesling or gewurztraminer with sushi, but champagne . . . hmm. I'd like to try that! I have had pinot noir, which goes nicely with the yellowfin tuna and seaweed salad, but I always order a range of food, so I prefer to stick with a lighter wine, or sake. It would be perfect to have a range of wines to taste with the sushi and sashimi plates, but . . . I haven't been that organized. Next time, for sure!

Greetings, Danielle! This is going to be a fun blog! I'll be looking forward to the pictures, and the ham hocks! Mmm, first the liverwurst, and now the ham hocks . . . I know what I'm getting at the store today!

You all are give me cravings.

Davidb, It's more likely due to the tannins in the reds, and copper in the whites. White wine is more susceptible to hydrogen sulfide (rotten egg smell) because the higher acid in white wine is a perfect medium for an aceter-sulfate reaction. . . The sulfites added at the crusher + any cruising vinegar bacteria + they both really love acid = they marry, have kids and die, resulting in a highly reduced rotten egg smell. To prevent that marriage, some wineries sprinkle a little copper sulfate into the whites. So, your wife may be sensitive to the woody tannin component in reds, and to the occasional copper-enhanced white.

Hmm. I think it's time for a related thread on copper sulfate in wine . . .

As an extension of the 'Wine 101: Sulfites' thread, let's have a brief discussion about the use of copper in wine. As some of you may already know, copper sulfate is a handy remedy for hydrogen sulfide (rotten egg smell). What isn't widely known is that copper is also widely used to "bump up" the fruit in wines that are losing fruit character due to lazy racking, poor yeast performance, or other reductive factors. When I was working for a larger winery (well, they're all larger than ours, but let's say 100,000+ cases) a lab worker came running out to me holding two glasses of wine. "Quick, smell these. Which one do you prefer?" I picked one and he scurried back to the lab. He came back a few minutes later. "Now which one is your favorite?" "Ooh, I really like this one," I said, holding the second glass. "Can I have a sip?" "NO! DON'T DRINK THAT! IT'S GOT COPPER IN IT!!!!" Yikes. Apparently the lab samples had been hastily prepared for sniffing purposes alone. Copper sulfate, which comes in solution or little blue crystals, causes stuffiness, headaches, nausea, hypertension, palpitations, and shortness of breath. It's not at all uncommon for a winery to add a little copper sulfate to slightly oxidized lots before bottling, to recover fresh fruit flavors and maybe to head off a potential H2S problem. This happens more often in large productions where it's inefficient to use actual copper to freshen the fruit. We prepare our bottling lots in small portable tanks, and if we have any doubt as to the fruit's brightness, we stir it with a simple four-foot copper rod, thereby aerating it and releasing a few copper ions at the same time. While additions of copper to wine are less than 0.1 parts-per-million, the human body is very sensitive to minerals, and persons with a sensitivity would have a reaction. I personally get headaches every time from a certain well-known zin producer. Dover Dan does, too. Another lesser known yet excellent producer also gives us headaches. We attribute it to the overly enthusiastic use of copper and we avoid those producers.

Welcome aboard, Rob! Please feel free to ask questions and join in our lively discussions. Oh, that's mean!

August 18: Viognier grapes from Hansen Vineyard, still on the truck. Today, August 27: Syrah from Allegra Vineyard will arrive this morning, and our "new," well, revised and customized crusher is ready today! And now, back to our regularly scheduled wineblog by Carolyn.

Wow! Congratulations!! Caroyln is right--a score above 90 sends many (as in many) WS readers into a piranhic feeding frenzy. It's great!

Okay! I'll get my hands on some if I can. (I like this review--it covers everything: aroma, color, taste, finish, balance, and emotional satisfaction.)

Now that there's just funny.

Welcome, welcome! Thanks for sharing your experiences with those wines. It's good news.

I have had sparkling shiraz on a few occasions (do not remember which ones) and enjoyed them. Of course I wasn't looking for an investment wine, and barely glanced at the label, but someone put it in my hand, and I thought it was deeply fruity, with all the shiraz plum and just a teeny bit of bacon that made it interesting. I think I've had them four times, and only one seemed sweet--the other three were dry with a smooth, creamy spritz. I also thought it was novel and I've made no attempt to track one down, but I've got it on my idea list for my "winter blues" party.

Happy Birthday, Craig! Thank you for sharing your talent with us!

Hey, wait for me! Ditto on the alcohol and fruitiness issues. I'd also like to add that back in the '60s and '70s Paul Draper bucked the 'fruity zin' trend and began making heavily tannic zins--many of which have aged beautifully. Reviewers at the time ridiculed the idea that zin had enough tannin and balance to go the distance. Producers followed Draper's example, but often overdid it in a race to produce the ultimate tannic zin--they were also trying to compete with cabernets--but many of those wines did not have the crisp acids and bright fruit necessary for longevity, so . . . they turned into wonderfully tannic dust. Which reviewers gleefully pointed out later. Thanks to Draper we now know that certain vineyards can produce potentially long lived zins, if the berries can be coaxed to ripeness while sugar levels are still relatively low, which is extremely difficult in zin. A zin with aging potentially generally tastes sharp and astringent when young compared to other releases. Look for fresh, spicy tannins; minimal oak; bright acids; fresh summer fruit flavors like strawberry, cherry and raspberry as opposed to overripe plum or jam flavors; plenty of pepper; and 12-14% alcohol.

Here is Dover Canyon's first fruit of the season, viognier grapes still strapped to the truck! I'm looking forward to seeing Carolyn's harvest!

Hey, you're back! We are bottling, too--the mobile bottling lines are very busy this time of year. Everyone's making room for the new vintage.

Lots of wineries use modern cement tanks with epoxy sealants or glass lining, and many are temperature controlled. The old tanks I've seen around here have not been used in decades and have rough, cracked and weathered surfaces where bacteria and fungi have set up housekeeping! Not to mention the snails. It's tanks like those that I picture the monks using to make their 'Cana Nouveau.'

Unfortunately, CC, your comments are so astute that I doubt you'll get much argument from anyone! From an international marketing perspective, it makes sense for a producer to have a signature wine. But there is also the reality that most French producers chafe under their restrictive laws and wish they had the freedom other producers do. And a signature can be a style--not just a single product. When we started Dover Canyon we chose a 'signature' wine, based on our experience working at larger wineries and the advice of our winery-owning friends. Huh. Our annual 'Menage' is a Bordeaux blend, and it's always top-notch. But what do people go nuts for at our winery? The same wines that Dan enjoys producing--small production, vineyard-designate syrahs and zinfandels. And for us, there's artistic excitement is choosing to designate something as a vineyard-select, or in doing a special blend. It's fun! It gives us a feeling of triumph to celebrate some special and distinctive fruit. And trust me, since we both gave up decent hours, paid trips to wine festivals across the US, well-appointed offices and respect, we oughta be having fun! As Kent Rosenblum described himself, we are now "debt qualified." And loving it.

I had no idea entertaining could be so complicated . . . although I had never really considered before that people who live in very ethnically intense areas may have many good friends with strict dietary habits, and to host an evening of dining and good conversation, one would want to make an effort to please everyone. Helping your guests feel included and appreciated is part of being a good host. However, I can definitely sympathise with the "eat what I serve or not" approach, simply because our entertaining is generally very impromptu and involves kids, dogs, and surprise guests. Well, heck, even the timing can be a surprise--like, a barbecue? Now? Oooookay . . . I think if one knows that guests may have dietary leanings, and if you're not sure what to do, just have a potluck dinner and ask your guests to bring something special that reflects their culture and diet. Nice paper plates, cups and flatware take care of the plating issues. (Definitely recommending a glass of wine for the hostess before the party.)

Sorry, the punt is just the bottom of the bottle. So, that would be 'cork up.' The reason for that is that the punt is much stronger than the neck of the bottle and so bottles travel better with their punt down. If you anticipate a smooth ride it may not be a necessary precaution, but we've seen wild things happen to bottles traveling neck down or on their sides--think potholes, speed bumps, accidentally dropping the case, blown tires, etc.