Wilson

Well, isn't this the problem? Last time I looked, a bunch of them are either merging or folding. World domination is one thing. 10% of the market in the region that launched specialty coffee is something else. If all they do is talk to each other and their current customers, I don't think most of them stand much chance of suviving, let alone thriving. And that's really unfortunate, because I don't think it would take a whole lot to make them thrive. Making a product that people want to buy might be a good start. Look at Redhook, for example. Their issue certain hasn't been distribution, not ever since they got an agreement with Budweiser. Look at what happened to them in New Hampshire -- a total bust! Their problem is that their ale is just too damn bitter to have much appeal beyond a very small group in their home region. And I'll freely acknowledge that I come from a pilsner lager heritage, although my very favorite brews are usually on the bitter side. But there's bitter and there's acid eating through your tongue ...

Sorry, but I drink 90%+ of my beer at home. I'd suggest that if the craft brewers aspire to gain more than a toenail clipping's worth of the market here (can we agree that 5% tells us something's the matter??), they'd better make beer you can buy at the store and take home with you. As for Widmer hefeweizen, I'll freely acknowledge that I might be way, way off on that one. I cited what I remember as having liked when I lived here before, but it's been more than five years. The last hefe I had was in a reststop on the Autobahn (yes, they serve beer on the Autobahn, and the German accident fatality rate is one-third of ours), and it was fantastic. I don't remember the name, only that it came in a really big bottle, which was great because the heat wave was going strong. In any case, I only drink hefe in the summertime and didn't return here until late fall. So my opinions of specific hefes are subject to a lot of revision next summer. Research will be called for! It's a brutal job but I am up for the grueling task! As for all these styles allegedly available in the PacNW, the unfortunate reality is that most of them are just drowned in hops. Good example is Deschutes Black Butte Porter. It's barely distiguishable from their Obsidian Stout, and it's just horrible by comparison to Guiness in a can after a journey of 8,000 miles. The Scotch ales around here aren't noticeably different from the amber ales or the ESBs, etc., and even Coastline pilsner on fifth taste turns out to be unbalanced toward hops and lacking in sweetness. It's all essentially the same stuff with different names. Sorry you don't like GB, tighe. I just got my first six-pack of it, and I'd put it right up there with Budvar and Capital Brewing's Gartenbrau, although maybe I'll wind up changing my mind. Maybe there are a couple of issues here, tighe. One being that maybe you're simply more partial to the extremely bitter style out her. PacNW-ers have (tragically) been trained to consider it the apothesis of good beer, which makes craft brews something of a self-limiting product here. The other being that perhaps, like a lot of folks in these parts (and other of the more parochial places I've lived in the West, Midwest and East), you've go batshit whenever someone doesn't genuflect to this or that prevailing regionalism. I find that quaint, in a way. Look, a good pils ain't going to kill you. Good beer doesn't have to taste like sucking a lemon with a diluted grain alcohol chaser. The uber-bitter ales here seem to be well-made in the sense that they're fresh and high-quality, but I'm finding that about one bottle a week is quite enough. One other comment: Now that it looks like tobacco in bars in on its last legs in the People's Virtuocracy of Puget Sound, any chance that I might have had for drinking in taverns is about to vanish.

adrober, I don't know if you're still reading, but I'd make a few points. 1. It takes a certain bravery to expose your naive and uneducated self to the richly deserved whackings you've gotten in this thread. 2. If you're looking for value Trotter's isn't the place to go. The place is about spending that extra $200 or more per person for that tiny increment of "quality." There's only one question to ask of Trotter's: Was it as good as it possibly could have been? You want value? Go to Outback Steakhouse. 3. Yes, you're too young. The way to appreciate Trotter's is by comparison to other places; it's a place for people who have eaten at scores of other restaurants and have an eye for very fine distinctions. You hit Trotter's too soon in your dining career. 4. You were looking for insults, disappointments and a reasons to feel ripped off. By telling me that it wasn't "worth it," you've told me nothing. If the waiter snubbed you -- although I think most of those snubs occurred in your imagination -- it seems to have been with good reason. You were begging for it. You all but taped a "Snub Me" sign to your forehead. CONCLUSION: If you were to tell me your meal was a slapdash affair; the food unimaginative; the waiter disengaged, rude or haphazard -- then I'd care. But it was too expensive? So what?

It you can't buy it in a bottle then it doesn't really exist. I was at Larry's supermarket on Queen Anne in Seattle today, and other than Pyrmaid Coastline (an o.k. pilsner but nothing to write home about) and a $3.50 22-oz. bottle Zephryus pilsner from Elysian, a brewpub in Seattle, the Pac NW was represented by only the usual selection of hyper-bitter ale. Gordon Biersch Marzen, from California, and Anchor Steam, also from California, where the only pilsners available in six packs. I got a six-pack of Gordon Biersch Marzen and really enjoyed it. This was on the recommendation of my friend from Capital Brewing, who said that Anchor was o.k. but nothing terribly special. After a couple bottles of the GB Marzen I could see what he was talking about. A wonderfully balanced pilsner beer. Sure, maybe I can find Hale's cream ale in a bar. If I find it, I will try it and do so with an open mind. After all, I would really rather buy local brew. But so far, I haven't found much out there to alter my prior opinion that the Pacific NW brewers are producing a monoculture of outrageously bitter brews, good Hefeweizen (a summer brew) and the occasional uber-specialty Belgian style this or that. I look at this situation and wonder: Why are they so conformist? The Pac NW craft brewers are beating each others' brains out with the same ultra-bitter ales while they ignore a significant market for a different, more balanced pilsner lager. I don't get it, other than to figure that it's just another case of group-think in action. Pac NW brewers: You need to think outside of your current box. You're missing a whole wide world out there. Really. Trust me, this is friendly criticism. Might not sound that way, but I want you to succeed.

I just got a six-pack of Pyramid's Coastline pilsner lager and am not too impressed. They did well with respect to restraining the hops, but it's as if they didn't replace the lost flavor with a counterweight, i.e., more sweetness from malt. I haven't been able to find Hale's cream ale yet. Not even Larry's on Queen Anne carries it. But they do carry several other Pac NW pilsners, so once I'm finished with the Coastline I'll keep looking.

I need to correct my last post. I wrote that we had been served a "Corton" at Lucas Carton. Not so. We were served a Condrieu.

How about an election-year ad with people arguing over politics. Someone interrupts and asks if anyone wants a (Beer Name) and everyone sighs a sigh of relief and says yeah get the (Beer Name). At the end, someone says to the other, "You know, you just might have a point there." The punch line is "(Beer Name) -- The One Thing Everyone Can Agree On" In fact, there could be a whole ad campaign built around the idea that if everyone sat down and had a couple of (Beer Name) together, we might be able to work a few things out. And of course, in every ad, they agree that "This (Beer Name) Is Really Good Beer." After all, as any Milwaukeean knows, beer is the solution to our problems ...

I like those ads. And I might have spoken too soon on the lack of variety in the Pac NW. I'm looking a little harder, and I am seeing more. Next step is to start tasting the non-pale ales from this region.

If I were on the desert island and could have a case of something dropped, I think it would be Anchor Steam. Tied for second place would be: - Boddington's Ale - Budvar - Stella Artois - Widmer Hefeweizen - Capital Brewing Gartenbrau - Guiness Stout

I'm an expatriate Milwaukeean who could blind-taste all the American brands before he reached 17 years of age. I like my beer, and while I'm not as knowledgeable as some people I think I know my beer. These days I drink only craft beers or imports unless nothing else is available or on the occasional spur of the moment when I want to remind myself just how bad the major brands really are. Craft beers and imports are usually more expensive, and I'm sure that's the primary reason why they have a low market share. Better products are always going to be more expensive, and they're always going to have a minority of the market. But 5%? That's way too low, and I think it's that low partly because the craft brewers have made some mistakes in approaching the market. For one thing, they use the language of connoisseurship and/or a language of aggressive insurgency and the imagery of a biker gang or a punk rock band. Just by the way they carry themselves, they hold themselves out as an exclusive club or a gang of spiky haired kids. Craft beer is almost as intimidating as wine in this regard. What's wrong with simple messages aimed at people who don't especially want to join a secret society? You know, like "Made Here. Made Better." You might even try using relaxing images, instead of "Mad Dog" this and "Wild (fill in the blank)" that. If there's one product that ought to be sold with humor, easy times and a light touch, beer is that product. Craft brewer humor tends to be too pointed, too cerebral or both. Bring it down a notch, guys. Poke fun at yourselves. Remember the Sam Adams T-shirts, "I'm a Revolting Beer Drinker?" Hey, you might even try pitching your product at Middle America through the use of homey imagery. Any of you craft brewers ever thought of sponsoring Little League teams, having floats in the 4th of July parade and selling your products at the county fair? If you want customers, go where the customers are. Secondly, in many cases the craft brewers are driven to be so distinctive that they make an unbalanced product. This is particularly true in the Pacific Northwest, where the vast majority of craft beers are extremely bitter ales. Some helpful people here have been pointing out some exceptions, but I think they really prove the rule at least for the Pacific Northwest. I wonder how true this is elsewhere in the country. Thirdly, even when their beers aren't overloaded with hops, craft beer tends to be heavy beer. Remember the old Schaeffer's slogan, "The beer to have when you're having more than one?" Other than hefeweizen, which I absolutely love in the summer time and which the craft brewers have singlehandedly revitalized in the U.S., I see very few attempts to make a lighter-bodied beer. It might be a thought in between that intense experimentation on how to make a Belgian-style watermelon beer or a triple-bock, bottle-aged barley wine. Finally, and this is related to the first three points, the craft brewers tend to talk only to themselves. If you follow the German quality standard for beer and you otherwise care about the handling and distribution of your product, forget about the awards that you give each other. Your awards ought to be the number of barrels you sell every year. There tends to be much more me-tooism in the business than there ought to be, both in terms of the marketing voice and the products themselves. If I see one more hyper-bitter craft ale with a cute name at the grocery store here in Seattle, I just might start buying Miller Genuine Draft for the spite of it.

These are all really good suggestions and I appreciate them. All things considered, I'd rather drink the local brew if I can find stuff to my taste.

Speaking of Saintsbury, did you ever visit the Carneros Alambic Distillery down the road from them? The place is closed now, but while they were going they made some incredible brandy. I was really sorry to see them fail. They made a great product but didn't promote it. I wonder if there any left anywhere. I mention it because I found the place on a visit to Saintsbury. It was late in the afternoon and we were the only visitors to Saintsbury. The guy poured us samples of the brandy and said you really ought to go over there. Thus began a long love affair with their product. They were owned by Remy Martin, and I had thought this would give them staying power. Oh well.

Well, I don't really hang out in taverns but if you can suggest one with good food and that has some good Pac NW beers on tap I'll give it a shot. Thus far, when I've been in taverns here, i.e., the Triangle in Fremont or the bar at El Camino, what's on tap is another one of those hop-laden, ultra bitter Pac NW ales with their characteristic lemon-sucking astringency. If you've got some on-tap ideas off of that track, I'm interested.

We dined at Mistral in Seattle in December, and were served pinot noir (2001 Santa Lucia Highlands) by Arcadian, a small winery near Monterey. My complaint with most American pinots, especially the Oregon pinots, is that the fruit is just overpowering. Arcadian's pinot is more balanced, and I liked it enough to have ordered a case shipped to me. Arcadian Winery

I suspect what they do a great job of, is selling you expensive (and ludicrously profitable) flights of wine. Not to mention convincing you that this great secret science couldn't possibly be done cheaper or better yourself. It really depends on the place, and of course the rising popularity of wine pairings will certainly bring the shysters out of the woodwork. Still, I think you're being too cynical. Wine pairings, if done with real care, can be great. I just do not believe the actual degustatory experience is really helped that much by these flights. It's fun to have more wine, it's nice grandeur to have people fussing over you constantly, but I don't really feel this elevates the sensory appreciation of what is consumed. This sounds really jaded. Is that for effect, or are you actually that bored? Maybe you're spending too much time in high-end food palaces. You know, the old "familiarity breeds contempt" thing? At Lucas Carton in Paris they served a Corton with a delicate fish course. We had previously drunk Corton and not liked it, finding it too floral for our sensibilities. But the pairing made us realize that we had simply not paired Corton with the right food. They paired a chocolate dessert with a vintage port, and it was as if I had never really tasted either port or chocolate before. I told our waiter that I hadn't only eaten lunch but had received an education. Last month at Mistral in Seattle, their pairing of a 1983 Disznoko Tokaji Aszu 6 Putonyos with fois gras was transcendent. It's a deep red, almost brown, wine that seems like a cross between a sauterne and a port yet lighter than both. It was just perfect with the foie gras. Mistral picked some really interting wines for other courses. They found a sauvingnon blanc from Napa Valley (Mason) that was fantastic. Forman chardonnay from Napa was substantial yet not as overpowering as my prior favorite, Kistler. Arcadian (small producer) pinot noir from the Monterey coast was a lot more elegant than the fruit bombs characteristic of Oregon. I kept the Mistral menu and have slowly been seeking out the wines they served that night. I'd had never found them on my own. Besides these flights are usually filled with pretty pedestrian wine That hasn't been my experience at all. At Lucas Carton and Mistral, they put a lot of thought into it. The wines at Charlie Trotter's weren't as memorable to me, but I recognized most of the names and knew how much they cost. We certainly were not being ripped off in the context of Trotter's, which is a very expensive restaurant. Also, L'Espalier in Boston has found interesting small-batch wines that interacted with the food in a phenomenal way.

Frankly, I don't see why screwtops couldn't be used for cellar-able wines, too. I recall reading some years back that some serious collectors were pulling the corks out of their wines and using bottlecaps. Cork fails at a pretty high rate. It's pretty disappointing when you've laid down, say, half a dozen bottles of cabernet only to find that a couple of them are corked. Anyway, at the moment a lot of wine from New Zealand comes in screw-top bottles. I think they're giving the French quite a run for the money in the lower end of fine wines, i.e., the $10-$20 range. Especially the sauvignon blancs. By the way, I was given a "rabbit" corkscrew for Christmas. Took a bit of getting used to, but now you couldn't pry it out of my cold, dead fingers.

What a nice article, as well as an informative one. I have a good friend involved with Capitol (Capital? not sure of the spelling) in Madison, Wis. and will send it to him. I have been buying Anchor Steam and Anchor Porter for a long time. Now that I know the same guy makes Old Portrero, I'm going to give that a try, too.

I'll give Hale's Cream Ale a try, and I will look for the Big Time. Thanks for the ideas. I think Deschutes is the best brewer in the Pac NW, and I'm a real fan of their Obsidian Stout. Yet I think their Obsidian Stout and the Porter are still unbalanced. Especially the Porter. It shouldn't be nearly as ragged as it is. I guess these things wouldn't bug me as much as they do if there didn't seem to be so much of the same beer floating around under different labels. Chalk it up to the human herding instinct, I guess. If you're ever out in Wisconsin you ought to try some of the beers from Capitol Brewing, especially their Gartenbrau. I know some of the people at Capitol, and they view the Pac NW brewers as a bunch of hopheads. O.K., I'm exaggerating for effect, but you know what I mean.

Thus, my complaint isn't that Pac NW ale is bitter, but that it is harshly bitter to the point of being unbalanced and even monochronomatic. They're trying so hard not to be Budweiser that they've become just as boring but in a different way? Maybe this is part of the reason the craft brewers have hit a glass ceiling?

p.s.: I was characterized on another forum, where I introduced this subject, as not liking hops. Not so. I'm a big Boddie's drinker and that ought to say it all with respect to hops. Someone also posted that Pilsner is characterized by a strong hops taste and no sweetness. Could have fooled both me and the Beer Judge Certification Program Style Guide, which says this about Bohemian Pilsner: Flavor: Rich, complex maltiness combined with pronounced soft, rounded bitterness and flavor from Saaz hops. Moderate diacetyl acceptable. Bitterness is prominent but never harsh, and does not linger: The aftertaste is balanced between malt and hops. Clean, no fruitiness or esters.

I lived here for a couple years in the mid-'90s and just returned to Seattle, and am refamiliarizing myself with many things. Including the outrageous hoppiness of Pac NW craft ale, and the conformity of regional craft brewers to the notion that Bitter Is Better. I find the beers here to be well-made, but tremendously unbalanced toward hops, which I've always attributed to the fact that the region is a major hops producer. What I can't quite understand, though, is why with all the craft brewers around here they all seem to produce a single style, i.e., American pale ale along with the occasional hefeweizen and stout. Where's the Pilsner lager? What about just plain balanced bitter in, say, the style of arguably the best ale in the world, the cream of Manchester, Boddington's Ale? I wonder if there isn't a big influence of groupthink among Pac NW brewers. Do they think that Bitter Is Better is so essential to this region that nothing else can be considered good beer? Could it be that they've trained the craft beer consumers here (all 5% of the stagnant market) to expect to be slammed in the forehead by a bolt of bitter? Is malt too expensive? Let the debate begin!

Wow, Point beer. A blast from the past. When I was in high school (the glory days of the 18-year-old drinking age, which meant there was really no drinking age), we'd drive from Milwaukee to Port Washington in search of Point. We particularly valued the 8-ouncers. They were lots of fun.

I'm going to move my beer discussion over to the beer forum. seacrotty, I answered your specific points over there.

I'm going to move my beer discussion over to the beer forum.

Sorry about these multiple posts, but I forgot to make my other comment, and that's about the beer around here. How come there are 75 microbreweries in the Pac NW but they all make the same ale? It's like they're all competing to see who can put more hops in than the last guy. I like bitter, honest I do, but holy cow. Haven't any of these people ever met a Pilsner they liked? Do all the microbrewers meet in secret every Thursday and take a pledge not to use any malt in their brew?